NewsUnrealEdFilesModsFragBULiandri Archives
BeyondUnreal Forums

Go Back   BeyondUnreal Forums > BeyondUnreal > Games > Unreal Tournament Series > Unreal Tournament 2003/2004

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 9th Dec 2003, 04:27 PM   #1
WebSlinger
bNotNegative != False
 
WebSlinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb. 29th, 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,955
Why games will always look fake...

No matter how realistic the textures... no matter how many polys... no matter how carefully calculated the motion blur is.... games will always look fake because of FOCUS. Everything on the screen is always in focus.

So, here's my solution... CONTACT LENSES!

You wear these lenses that have little wireless devices in them that communicate with the game software. When you look at something, the game only focuses the items that are that deep in the picture and blurs everything else on a scale based on how much closer or farther away they are from what you are looking at! It's BRILLIANT!!

There, you have your million dollar idea, I want 20%

<-- these still mean something, right?
__________________
oun¡¡¡¡Quiero más popotes!!!!uno
WebSlinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 05:25 PM   #2
Daedalus
I don't even...
 
Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May. 24th, 2001
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,261
actually, if we could have computers that could render and process literally an infinite number of polygons at once, then we could have realistic looking games. This problem wont happen, ever, or at least not for a very very long time.
__________________
...
____
Daedalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 05:27 PM   #3
Raffi_B
Administrator
 
Raffi_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 27th, 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 2,001
The day computers are able to draw a perfect circle is the day you will be able to play in realistic scenes.

Never.
__________________
Raffi_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 05:44 PM   #4
Doc_EDo
LEFT
 
Join Date: Jan. 10th, 2002
Posts: 755
Quote:
Everything on the screen is always in focus.
Not true. What ever you look at is in focus, and that's only a small radius arround the point you are looking at. So games dont need focus distance at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus
actually, if we could have computers that could render and process literally an infinite number of polygons at once, then we could have realistic looking games. This problem wont happen, ever, or at least not for a very very long time.
It doesnt have to be a polygons only dots. Also the number will be in billions not necessary infinite.
__________________

Last edited by Doc_EDo; 9th Dec 2003 at 05:47 PM.
Doc_EDo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 05:49 PM   #5
thewalkingman
ssssssssssss bugger!
 
thewalkingman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov. 12th, 2000
Location: Quahog
Posts: 6,450
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0001.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	75.8 KB
ID:	70252  
__________________

Only IPv6 enabled browsers can see my posts
thewalkingman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 06:30 PM   #6
Dr. Nick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct. 5th, 2002
Location: GA
Posts: 169
I've saw several games lately that use depth of field which blurs out objects further in the background (Beyond Good and Evil and Prince of Persia come to mind). Of course there's no way to dynamically change the focus depending on where you are looking unless you had the computer hooked directly to your eye... which would be disturbing.
Dr. Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 07:59 PM   #7
Sir_Brizz
More Than Just Mad Skill
 
Sir_Brizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb. 3rd, 2000
Location: >:3
Posts: 25,643
Raffi: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even a "circle" in the real world isn't a perfect circle, but a series of dots/lines that make it look round
__________________
64 65 61 74 68 62 6f 6f 67 65 72 73 20 6d 6f 74 68 65 72 20 6f 66 20 63 6f 75 72 73 65

Liandri Archives - A veritable smorgasbord of information about the Unreal series
If Titanic taught me anything, it's to never let go until you're a frozen corpse staring hopelessly into a barren horizon.
Sir_Brizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 08:11 PM   #8
Hedge
Wish I was with her
 
Hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep. 12th, 2003
Location: out in the boonies
Posts: 287
Brizz, always being the Smart A. I see what you mean webby, but do we really want our games to look real or do we just want them to look "real?" I think that if a game looked and felt 100% realistic, then it wouldn't be the same as playing a game that only looked close to real.
Hedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 09:09 PM   #9
ExiT
hella lurker
 
ExiT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar. 14th, 2003
Location: uhm...
Posts: 82
Though we focus on stuff on screen, there isn't any real depth there, so while stuff is out of focus, it still screwes with our depth perception.

THe solution is 3d glasses :P
__________________
ffs.
ExiT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 09:41 PM   #10
m&ms
Melts in your mouth, not in your hand.
 
m&ms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul. 13th, 2003
Location: in a bag....duh
Posts: 1,179
nah, the solution is technology that projects the game into our subconscience, so it'd be like playing in a dream....dreams are based on reality so our minds would add the depth perception based on the information fed into them

also a great solution when you're really tired and want to play longer
m&ms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 09:54 PM   #11
Hanover_Fist
Hero
 
Hanover_Fist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 22nd, 2002
Posts: 2,258
Well, since I've got some experience in the matter......

Any object that is within roughly ~14 feet from you requires the lens of your eye to actually focus. Anything beyond that range your eye no longer changes shape to focus on it. What happens at that point is your memory takes over and you gauge distances based upon your experience. Like how large a tree is or how big a Semi Truck is, that visual memory allows you to gauge distances based on objects you are familiar with.

Where I work, we've struggled with this for years. In our simulators we've had to reflect our images within fourteen feet, otherwise the image looks too flat and doesn't pass an FAA certification. The way we get that majical distance is we place the image on a big bubble above the pilot and he looks into a mirror straight in front of him about 7 feet away, so we get double the distance. He then gauges distance based upon the memory of how large objects are ie: control towers, types of airplanes, familar objects on the ground.

So we do have "games" that pass for the real thing, so real infact that the FAA considers it "flight time". But these sims are really really expensive, and HUGE.

It could be done in the home I suppose, if you could project an image that distance from you and still see it really well.

Or if in your "contact lens" you can fool your eye into a focus where not you but your eye thought it was focused at infinity and you had familiar objects in the game.

Good luck with tricking your eye not to focus.

Maybe a sharp pencil, and just poke it just a little?

Oh it didn't work?

Well poke just a little harder this time...

Ouch!...too much. *_O
Hanover_Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 10:09 PM   #12
Raffi_B
Administrator
 
Raffi_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 27th, 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 2,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Raffi: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even a "circle" in the real world isn't a perfect circle, but a series of dots/lines that make it look round
Then, isn't it physically impossible to draw a perfect circle? By that logic, a circle is just as vague and incomprehensible as the concept of infinity... hmm... good point brizz.

my head hurts
__________________
Raffi_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 10:19 PM   #13
Renegade Retard
Defender of the newbie
 
Renegade Retard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec. 18th, 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 6,909
Quote:
......do we really want our games to look real or do we just want them to look "real?"
Denife "irony" - trying to make an game called "Unreal" look more real

Renegade Retard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Dec 2003, 10:26 PM   #14
Sir_Brizz
More Than Just Mad Skill
 
Sir_Brizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb. 3rd, 2000
Location: >:3
Posts: 25,643


hehe yep it's impossible by any means to create a perfect circle. Any curve, in fact, is not really a curve, but a series of miniscule lines that give the illusion of a curve
__________________
64 65 61 74 68 62 6f 6f 67 65 72 73 20 6d 6f 74 68 65 72 20 6f 66 20 63 6f 75 72 73 65

Liandri Archives - A veritable smorgasbord of information about the Unreal series
If Titanic taught me anything, it's to never let go until you're a frozen corpse staring hopelessly into a barren horizon.
Sir_Brizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2003, 01:49 AM   #15
Metakill
Inhumane
 
Metakill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb. 18th, 2000
Location: Redwood City, CA USA
Posts: 2,430
What happened to virtual reality? It was the big thing in the mid-90's then dropped off the map (outside of university projects). In order to focus your eyes on a specific distance, you need a real concept of distance. For your brain to judge this distance, it requires two separate images, hence we have two eyes. Walla! Binocular vision.

Anybody played UT2k3 (or any other games) with the 3D enhancement glasses you can order over the web? I'm reluctant to order stuff that isn't sold in any stores.
Metakill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2003, 08:01 AM   #16
IntRed
Registered User
 
IntRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun. 17th, 2001
Location: The small yet so large country Belgium
Posts: 4,560
and how come movies look real on your tv screen then?
__________________
IntRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2003, 08:31 AM   #17
W0RF
BuF Greeter, News Bagger
 
W0RF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr. 19th, 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 8,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlinger
No matter how realistic the textures... no matter how many polys... no matter how carefully calculated the motion blur is.... games will always look fake because of FOCUS. Everything on the screen is always in focus.
Actually, screen blur is becoming pretty common now. It's one of the trumpeted features of GameCube graphics, and Madden/NCAA/etc games on all consoles have that "realism" feature when they focus on a player after a play and blur the stuff around him.
__________________





Maps: CTF-ColaWars-FragBU - current version = 2 | CTF/BR/JB/TDM-BuFferZone - In Progress
W0RF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2003, 10:53 AM   #18
Hanover_Fist
Hero
 
Hanover_Fist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct. 22nd, 2002
Posts: 2,258
This may be a little bit difficult to see, but there was a period that artists started using lenses
make more accurate paintings:http://www.louvre.fr/img/photos/coll...de/inv1343.jpg.
If you look closely, you'll see that the objects in the background are a little more out of focus than the
objects on the desk, like the tools he's holding. You'll only see this effect if you're using a
lens to project an image onto a canvas. Your un-aided eye can't detect anything out of focus.

If you're interested there's a book on the subject, I saw it on 60 minutes:
http://www.nexusjournal.com/reviews_v4n4-Domini.html

From what I saw, David Hockney presented some pretty clear evidence that the Renaissance Masters
used lenses, with lots of examples.

They also interviewed some Hoity Toity Artsy types and they were basically all "STFU NOOB, TEH ARtists
were teh good, they dint use teh lenzez". (only because they didn't want their art devalued).

It kinda goes along with Worfs point, things out of focus in the background is more of a trick, to give the illusion of depth. We're just used to it because of Movies and TV, and lenses being so common.

Last edited by Hanover_Fist; 10th Dec 2003 at 10:55 AM.
Hanover_Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2003, 11:04 AM   #19
JaFO
bugs are features too ...
 
JaFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov. 5th, 2000
Posts: 5,483
I say : screw lenses and give me a true 3D-monitor ... AFAIK they *do* exist, altough they're only used for research-purposes and are hellishly expensive.

And as for tv/movies looking 'real' ... it's because they're not as perfect as computer-generated images often are.
JaFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2003, 11:43 AM   #20
Sir_Brizz
More Than Just Mad Skill
 
Sir_Brizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb. 3rd, 2000
Location: >:3
Posts: 25,643
heck yah let me run around in a holodeck for a while
__________________
64 65 61 74 68 62 6f 6f 67 65 72 73 20 6d 6f 74 68 65 72 20 6f 66 20 63 6f 75 72 73 65

Liandri Archives - A veritable smorgasbord of information about the Unreal series
If Titanic taught me anything, it's to never let go until you're a frozen corpse staring hopelessly into a barren horizon.
Sir_Brizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Copyright ©1998 - 2012, BeyondUnreal, Inc.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use
Bandwidth provided by AtomicGamer