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Old 6th Dec 2003, 10:26 PM   #1
[121st]Kettch
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Arrow FN M249 - Minimi

I would like to make a proposal concerning the "SAW":
The M249 is designed to fire shells from both magazines and belts. Therefore the M249 provides two firing modes: 1000 RPM (high in INF) and 750 RPM (low). These firing modes exist because a magazine contains a feather which pushes the next shell into the chamber, while the belt has to be pulled in by the M249. The additional time and energy which is needed for this pull forces the M249 to be fired with "only" 750 RPM when belt-fed.
Infiltraiton 2.9 features both firing modes for both magazines and belts. Though this isn't wrong, it could be improved:

I'd suggest that the M249 jams after a few shots when it's fired belt-fed in high firing mode. In this case "Jam" would mean that the gun is unable to complete the reload-process ending with an empty chamber and a relaxed feather. You would then have to pull the...... (loading device on the right side of the gun, insert the proper word here ) in order to transfer the next bullet into the chamber. If you don't switch down to low firing mode before deploying the weapon again, it should jam again after a few shots.
So in the end, the M249 loaded with magazines could be deployed in firing mode "high" and "low", while the belt-fed M249 could only be deployed in firing mode "low", as it is in the real world.

(If i'm mistaken in any details, feel free to correct me)
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Old 7th Dec 2003, 06:17 AM   #2
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Rifle calibre projectiles are called Bullets. Shells are fired from cannons (usually 20mm or larger) and are usually explosive in some form.

The HIGH/LOW rate of fire think isn't accurate either. The Minimi, like the FN-MAG has a feature allowing the weapon to be balanced. This is done by adjusting the amount of gas tapped to work the action to get a smooth operation. Too low and the weapon struggles to draw the belt through the weapon and will have miss-feed stoppages. Too high and the extractor, breach carrier and recoil assembly are put under considerably impact strain and will fail eventually.

This faster ot slower RoF comes from the fact the gas regulator is marked FASTER with an arrow. The variablility of the RoF with the Minimi is whether the weapon is using magazines for feeding (high RoF) or the size of belt. Short belts or having someone feed the belt gives a higher RoF while a long belt or having to draw a belt a considerable distance vertically slow the RoF.

This changable RoF of the Minimi isn't really correct in INF but it's not going to affect how the game plays. A short 1 second burst fires either 13 or 17 rounds. Either way the guy on the receiving end isn't having a good day.
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Last edited by Tiffy; 8th Dec 2003 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 8th Dec 2003, 12:48 PM   #3
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The new version of the M249 US Army Gas pressure Reg does not adjust up to 1000 rpm like the old version.......800 is the Max now I melted the handguards on a older version of the SAW a few years back. Talk about smoking gun!!!!

THE M249 does not jam very often.........I fired 2000 rounds in a two day period and never had a malfunction
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Old 8th Dec 2003, 01:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTFIGHTER
The new version of the M249 US Army Gas pressure Reg does not adjust up to 1000 rpm like the old version.......800 is the Max now I melted the handguards on a older version of the SAW a few years back. Talk about smoking gun!!!!
Light as an armourer I'm officially declaring you a Bad Lad. Your not supposed to shot them to destruction although as your US forces replacing this wornout weapon isn't going to cause any major problem.

Now repeat after me: -

"I will always fire my weapon using short, controlled bursts and will never blast enough rounds through it to melt the handguard or burn my fingers".

(The last one is what I did when shooting over 1000 rds through an LSW in about 5 minutes. I burnt my trigger finger - damn the metal trigger on these blasted weapons).
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Old 8th Dec 2003, 02:25 PM   #5
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Up here we use the C9 and C9A1, big big trouble over 900 rpm for both the SAW and C9. My left index finger is broken from richochet, one bounced off a rock and snafued my finger. Good thing it wasn't shot off or I took it in the head. There is a story about the IMI negev going off at 1100 rpm with a special belt setup somewhere. And the new C9 units we pack have 3 modes, low 600, med 750, and 900. Not quite sure about the SAW I think its just high/low and high is for mags like the negev. But you got it that hot.............
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Old 8th Dec 2003, 03:34 PM   #6
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Isn't the C9 a Canadianised FN-MINIMI. It has exactly the same settings as the Minimi with a balanced RoF of 700 RpM. You can jack the RoF up to 1000 RpM but your armourers going to get pissed when you rattle the thing to bits.

Don't know where your getting your 3 settings from
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Old 8th Dec 2003, 03:49 PM   #7
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I was told new C9s would have 3 modes and a grip. I've only fired it once though, hell of a thing . Makes my M311(ar-15) look like a super soaker.
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Old 8th Dec 2003, 03:52 PM   #8
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I think it was the fact that I had 5000 extra rounds of ammo left over from the range we were running and I didn't want to do any paperwork to "turn in ammo" so we lit it up!!!
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Old 8th Dec 2003, 05:01 PM   #9
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and destroying the gun was less paperwork than putting the ammo back? Sounds like the system gone wrong to me.
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Old 9th Dec 2003, 02:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTFIGHTER
I think it was the fact that I had 5000 extra rounds of ammo left over from the range we were running and I didn't want to do any paperwork to "turn in ammo" so we lit it up!!!
That sounds sooooooooo familiar. Thats about the long and short of my 1000rds in 5 minutes thing too. All thouse rounds and if you hand them back whole forests of paperwork and next time they won't give you as much.

But your still a Bad Lad Light, I'd never do that to one gun. I'd have shared it around and knacked a couple instead
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Old 9th Dec 2003, 02:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecale3
and destroying the gun was less paperwork than putting the ammo back? Sounds like the system gone wrong to me.
Yep. You just have to suffer the Armourers abuse for a while and then he'll either fix it or if it BLR (Beyond Local Repair) ship it to workshops for repair. Your really gifted if you can totally destroy the weapon. Most modern firearms are reasonably easy to fix given the right parts, tools and gauges.
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 11:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy
All thouse rounds and if you hand them back whole forests of paperwork and next time they won't give you as much.
Our armourer was bitching about that too. Since we were a training unit we didn't spend much time on the range. At the end of the year he was desparate to get anyone on the range to get rid of the last bullets...
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Old 29th Dec 2003, 12:40 AM   #13
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Alright, the comment about the 3 position gas regulator on the C9 is innacurate...Thats the C6. 1, 2, and 3..although we use position 2 as the default, so I don't know why the bothered with 1.

I've had horrible experience with the C9. We took 7 weapons to the range, we finished with two that worked. We took 6 out into the field and only one worked without a half can of WD-40.

As for the in-game Minimi.. I haven't seen the ROF change animation...have they done it correctly? Lever to the left for normal fire, lever to the right for adverse?

Lightfighter: I'm curious as to how you melted the handguards on your M249...On every C9 I've ever seen, the barrel didn't touch the handguard at all. I've seen red hot barrels and never seen any damage done to the handguard.

Also as a note: After a few thousand rounds the gas affected parts get pretty mucky...I've seen a C9 that was so dirty that even on adverse it wouldn't fire more than 3 rounds. Of course then the genius grabbed the barrel (not the handle) to change it. Heh...

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Old 29th Dec 2003, 02:22 AM   #14
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Don't forget Perrin, that the C9 is made by Diemaco, and the M249 and Minimi are made by FNMFG. From what I've seen of the C8 and C7, Diemaco maintain a pretty high standard of manufacture, but who knows, maybe they dropped the ball a bit on the C9.
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Old 29th Dec 2003, 10:28 AM   #15
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Question... I remember while speaking with someone from the 22nd regiment, here in Quebec (Can) (it's a few years back so i'm not sure if i'm correct) that after firing a specific number of rounds at high RoF on the LMG you had to change the barrel to let it cool of. Is this still the case today? with which LMG must this still be done?

I'm not sure he was speaking of the C9... perhaps one of the older predecessors because he was more then 10 years ago. He said he was always moving around with two barrels.
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Old 29th Dec 2003, 02:29 PM   #16
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You change C9 barrels after every 200 round box. Thats how its supposed to go, anyways. Same with the C6, after ever 220 round box, you change barrels.

As for the reliability: I'm pretty sure it was just lack of planning on the part of the brass running the course. The host unit sent all their C9's up to Wainwright for excercises going on there, then realised that they needed some for training to be done here. Answer: They sent us everything that was left over, and they all just happened to be ****ed up.

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Old 29th Dec 2003, 08:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTFIGHTER
The new version of the M249 US Army Gas pressure Reg does not adjust up to 1000 rpm like the old version.......800 is the Max now I melted the handguards on a older version of the SAW a few years back. Talk about smoking gun!!!!

THE M249 does not jam very often.........I fired 2000 rounds in a two day period and never had a malfunction

Yeah well I fired that in 10 minutes the other day and then some.

Seriously good thread interesting read.
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Old 29th Dec 2003, 09:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perrin98
You change C9 barrels after every 200 round box. Thats how its supposed to go, anyways. Same with the C6, after ever 220 round box, you change barrels.

As for the reliability: I'm pretty sure it was just lack of planning on the part of the brass running the course. The host unit sent all their C9's up to Wainwright for excercises going on there, then realised that they needed some for training to be done here. Answer: They sent us everything that was left over, and they all just happened to be ****ed up.

-LordPerrin
I assume you mean change barrels after every 200 rounds when you fire all those rounds at the cyclic rate.
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Old 11th Oct 2004, 05:45 PM   #19
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Hey. If you're like me, high or low your computer lags like a mother the minute you pull the trigger.
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Old 11th Oct 2004, 05:58 PM   #20
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Horray for hold thread resurrection :P

Have you considered a new computer?
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