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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 02:27 PM   #1
ravens_hawk
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Odd question about bulk

What exactly is bulk based on? (IE the bulk value in game) I'm guessing it's probably based on both weight and size, but if so some of the values seem off. For example the M-16 has a bulk of 8, and the PSG1 has a bulk of 10. Yet the PSG1 is about 2.5 times heavier and about 20cm (or 1/5) longer. Now I have heard that there have been some tweakings of the bulk system in 2.9, so maybe someone who knows a bit about that could comment.

PS Sorry if this has already been brought up. I tried searching to no avail.
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 03:43 PM   #2
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Bulk is a general balancing tool. It represents a handful of things; weight, size, handling ability, and battlefield value. For example, even though a LAM is light and small, it has a bulk of what...five? Whereas a pistol magazine has a bulk of one or two.
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 03:54 PM   #3
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Doesn't that detract from the idea of going with solid realism....the bulk should be made up of its physical factors, not its battlefield value. But I want total realism in Inf, I'm not overlly concerned with trying to balance the gameplay in that sense (realism would create its own gameplay in my opinion).
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 04:25 PM   #4
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Just a quick message before Keganator gets flammed, I think he's talking about the ACOG not the LAM. (LAM has a bulk of 1 ACOG has a bulk of 5) But it still holds true, the ACOG weights about 280g yet still has a bulk of 5.
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 04:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
But I want total realism in Inf, I'm not overlly concerned with trying to balance the gameplay in that sense (realism would create its own gameplay in my opinion).
True but if you want to go total realism you will be assigned your weapon. No choice whats so ever. How many infantry get to choose what they want to use. Anyways I am not actually sure how much game balance is a concern with the new bulk system.
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 04:50 PM   #6
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You're worrying about bulk ... while the most important factor of the game (= damage done to humans by those bullets you're firing) can't be measured ... in the game it's just an educated guess as well.

Bulk is an educated guess that tries to turn something that can't be measured exactly into something that can be used by the engine.

That is unless you prefer extreme realisme at 5 fps over a good approximation running at 30 fps ...
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 06:20 PM   #7
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hey, my approximaton DOES run at 5 fps...
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 08:47 PM   #8
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inf is and always will be game, in a game you can never ever have 100% realism, since it needs balancing to, otherwise the game would be boring, filled with lamers and other ****, trust me on this one....
as bob justan said during the taking of the original star trek:
"If physiscs needs to be bended a little to make the story better, then by all means bend it!"
thats the reason u har sound in space, u can beam(although heisenberg proved otherwise, besides, beaming had another function: it was to expensice to land the enterprise almost every episode...)
anyway im ratteling about star trek again, but u get the point(i hope)....
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Old 3rd Jul 2003, 08:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoLancer
Doesn't that detract from the idea of going with solid realism....the bulk should be made up of its physical factors, not its battlefield value. But I want total realism in Inf, I'm not overlly concerned with trying to balance the gameplay in that sense (realism would create its own gameplay in my opinion).
I agree completely. There should never be any artificial values for bulk in order to "balance" the weapons. Also the bulk values in the armory and in 2.86 are FUBAR. They are going to be fixed for 2.9, so don't worry about them until you see 2.9
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Old 4th Jul 2003, 09:04 AM   #10
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Beratta_Abuser: Right about the transporters, but thats why they have the 'heisenberg compensators'. Remeber in TNG they went offline in one episode and they couldnt teleport... remember, it wasnt so long ago that a man said they flying was impossible. ;-) (or that INF will be released 'SOON'. <KIDDING! Love you INF team!>

Back on subject now, BULK... right... I think its safe to assume that some numbers are off, but it still seems to play right. And like its been said above, 2.9 will only improve the situation.
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Old 7th Jul 2003, 04:27 PM   #11
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Sarcastic

Quote:
Originally Posted by keihaswarrior
I agree completely. There should never be any artificial values for bulk in order to "balance" the weapons. Also the bulk values in the armory and in 2.86 are FUBAR. They are going to be fixed for 2.9, so don't worry about them until you see 2.9
Until people are willing to accept the limitations of a real soldier/human in a virtual (& anonymous) environment without hardcoded rules these things will be needed.(period)

You don't need rules to play a realistic game ... you need a realistic attitude ...
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