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Old 30th Jun 2003, 06:22 PM   #1
ant75
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Question mutator needed for 2.9 ?

While i wait for 2.9, one of my concern remains : kevlar vests. From the start i've been opposed to this idea, and i'd like to know if i'm the only one. I'm not bitching about how it'll imbalance gameplay or anything like that, because i'm sure the game has been tested long enough to have an almost flawless gameplay. But it's the "concept" of vests i don't like, for me it's just a disguised way to give the player a little more health, allowing him to play with less caution. What made me come to Inf in the first place is that it's a very intense and stressful game, a game where you can almost never take chances. The thrill i get when playing comes from the fact that i know i can die in a snap, without realizing what stroke me. I know vests make you slower, therefore less vulnerable in a way, but i prefer when everybody starts as a simple soldier, with only its weapon to make the difference. I don't like "rambo" fights, where you have to empty a whole clip on your enemy to put him down... I'm worried about vests spoiling what i like the most about this game. So i was wondering if anybody agrees with that, and if a mutator to disable vests wouldn't be welcome when 2.9 is released (perphaps it wil be one of the features of RAv3?).
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 06:48 PM   #2
yurch
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Let me put it this way.
RAv3 will not be disabling kevlar.
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 06:50 PM   #3
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an excellent post

Nice to see people voicing their concerns and opinions intelligently, and backing up their thoughts well.

I for one must agree to a certain extent. INF has been designed to simulate a realistic tactical shooter, to the fullest extent possible. And one aspect I think it's done well with is making it hard to shoot/play while "ramboing" and perhaps the kevlar vest will bring some of the advantage back to that style. I certainly hope not.

At the same time, the INF team has been VERY thorough and understands the community and themes around which the game was developed. With that in mind, I'm sure they have addressed these concerns of the kevlar vest possibly increasing the rushing population/style. Now, that's not to say that gamestyle should not be there, as IRL, those tactics exist TO SOME EXTENT. I think the team has been diligent in thwarting that style by increasing weapon-bob when running/jogging, decreasing running speed (I believe), and other tweaks. Certainly somebody who has played and tested 2.9 would be in a better position to address these issues.
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 06:52 PM   #4
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even a LIIIa vest cannot do much against a 5.56x45mm in 2.9 as well as in RL

vests are fine
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 07:48 PM   #5
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The vests in 2.9 deal with shrapnel and pistol rounds, nothing to worry about. They're also vulnerable from the side, much like their real life counterparts.

As for worrying about gameplay problems, I think we've got that sorted after this long, don't you?
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 08:03 PM   #6
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Question

i rarely post here, just occasionally lurk and read. but, since the realism of 2.9 is in discussion, i wanted to ask a few questions that have been on my mind that hopefully someone can answer accurately.

for the past few months i've been playing strictly RAv2 (and more recently RA286.) i'm to the point now where i'd rather not play the game at all than play vanilla. INF without RA, to me, is almost like playing CS now and i avoid it like the plague.

this brings me to a few of the questions i have:

GAMEPLAY
1. will gameplay be slowed as it is in RA? (a) will the player literally be slower while running and (b) will you not be capable of running with your weapon shouldered?

2. will weapon damage be more severe (and thus more realistic) as it is in RAv2 as opposed to standard INF?

-------------------------------------------------------------

basically, my question in a nutshell: i know that yurch intends to do a RAv3 and i'm very much looking forward to it. however, between the time INF 2.9 and RAv3 is released, will 2.9 itself be realistic enough to keep us hardcore RA players interested and involved?

i'm sure the answer to these and more are in the beta log, but i was hoping possibly for a few in-depth responses...

thanks

Last edited by SexPistol; 30th Jun 2003 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 08:42 PM   #7
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Let me get this straight. You're asking for solutions to problems that don't even exist? Weird.

Vests are fine for all the reasons named here and a few more. They're well balanced.

Game play is much slower than 2.86, yes. It it slower for a variety of reasons, including weapon handling, weapon movement, walk/jog/sprint speeds, and a plethora of other reasons. Some of them surprises. As far as weapon damage, RAv2 actually has less damage at range than 2.86. There is a ~12% chance of getting killed when shot in RAv2, but the realism of that is up for debate (getting shot in the toe by a 9mm round should not kill you, ever. ).

Anyway, 2.9 is realistic enough to satisfy most of the realism freaks on the beta team. Take that for what it's worth. Of course there's always something someone would do different. Can't please everyone 100%.
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 09:14 PM   #8
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Yay, suprises!
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 09:15 PM   #9
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I believe Beppo is quoted as saying that RAv2 appeared "fast and arcadish" or something along those lines compared to 2.9.

That's enough for me.
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 09:15 PM   #10
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thanks sublime.

i know that there are a ton of JgKdo players on the beta team (who obviously are all RA players.) so, if it's enough for them, i'm sure it'll be enough for me, too

oh, and thanks for such a great mod!
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 09:26 PM   #11
yurch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sublime
As far as weapon damage, RAv2 actually has less damage at range than 2.86. There is a ~12% chance of getting killed when shot in RAv2, but the realism of that is up for debate (getting shot in the toe by a 9mm round should not kill you, ever. ).
heh, you didn't say what range
Damage in RAv2 is 35% higher for most weapons, and this damage drops for distance based on the square of the velocity. It's usually quite a bit higher than 2.86 damage, unless you are talking shotgun pellets at 200m.
As for toehits... it's UT!
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 09:35 PM   #12
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can i throw a suggestion? has nothing to do with actually changing anything ingame...but the next Realaim, why not call it rav2.9?
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 09:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin
can i throw a suggestion? has nothing to do with actually changing anything ingame...but the next Realaim, why not call it rav2.9?
Because I might one day take up the (good) practice of actually naming successive versions independantly in the packagename
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 11:42 PM   #14
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lol i just thought its wierd to have inf 2.9 played wit something v3---- any way of knowing if its that big of a change from v2 that it needs be called v3?
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 11:57 PM   #15
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So the way I see vest working are that A) the vest has so many points and B) bullets do not have thier potential to injure/kill damnpend by the vest? Ie: the vest loses 5 points and takes 5 points of the bullets total damage. This is the way it IS NOT done in 2.9, right? And I hope 2.9 isnt so slow its impossible to run across the street and not get killed 5 times over :P
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 12:28 AM   #16
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OpFor hit my concern right on with slow speed. I've always felt INF might be a little too accurate gunwise and I just hope that slowing the run/sprint speed won't allow even more chances for me running 10 across a road to be a sitting duck all the time.

Seems to me in INF anybody can pick up the game and be dead-on if they just lineup the sites, which is much easier in a video game versus real life.

Of course, it's got to playable and fairly easy because, afteall, it is JUST a game.

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Old 1st Jul 2003, 01:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
And I hope 2.9 isnt so slow its impossible to run across the street and not get killed 5 times over :P
just take a smokenade and watch out for claymores

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Old 1st Jul 2003, 01:52 AM   #18
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I would say: judge the gameplay for yourself when it is out.
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 01:54 AM   #19
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Running across streets watched by snipers is not a smart tactic.

Also the effectiveness of kevlar vests doesn't decrease when it is shot, unless two bullets hit in the same spot. The chance of two bullets hitting in the exact same spot is highly unlikely in a combat situation, so there is no reason to take the time to make a half-assed random chance model of it (remember no per-pixel hit detection in UT).
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Old 1st Jul 2003, 02:43 AM   #20
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Person 1: I hope it's slow enough...
Me: It's slow enough.
Person 2: I hope it's not too slow...
Me: It's not too slow.

Where's Goldilocks pondering if it's just right?
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