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Old 6th Mar 2002, 05:38 AM   #1
Neglous8
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Limitors.

I have been reading different posts about forcing team work, about refusing the use of some weapons so they are not abused. I agree, I don't like being on a server and it looks like a Mac-V team, everyone bring your own weapon day.

Instead of making it where you just can't have this item, scope or attachment. Why not make limitors. Like there are 8 people on your team maybe only two can have have a M203. The way I thought to do it would be by percentages. Meaning INF makes a log of your shooting, at different ranges, with different weapons, how well your doing with iron sites, with scopes. With M203's, SAW's and so on. So if someone has 75-90% hit ratio of a weapon. They would be more likely to have it. Compared to someone with a ratio of 10-25% with the same weapon. Not saying the person with the low ratio wouldn't be able to get it there ratio up higher, they would just have to practice using it and becoming better at it. It would so take in effect the range. So let say someone had a 90% kill ratio, but it is at 50 meters. While there 100 meter ratio is only at 45%. They would not get the sniper rifle, unless they were the highest ratio on the server at the ranger.

Just because your ratio is high doesn't mean it will always be high. Like if you just begin to spray and pray, not taking the time to aim, just charging everything your ratio hit percentage will go down and you maybe passed over on a certian weapon or attachment to someone that has a better profiencey.

I feel this would make it realistic and the players would have to think about the over all limitor. If they want a sniper rifle there are going to have to prove they deserve and that they can make long shots with out a scope.

So the limited weapons you may get, depends on how YOU play INF

Like if you can make 100 meter shots iron sites, then your ratio and likely hood of being able to have a sniper rifle would be a lot higher. Also would like to see if it there is a point system that sniper points would be on average lower then those same range shots of people doing them with iron sites.

You could also have a host option to set how many Scoped weapons, Sniper Rifles, SAW's you will allow on each team. Like saying have at least x amount, per team. Maybe you want one side to be able to have sniper rifles, while the other side can't. Or one side one person can have a sniper rifle. Then it would go by there kill ratio at long range who would get it. Or team A two people can have a SAW, but no one can have a sniper rifle and so on. Team B might have a one sniper rifle player, one SAW and two M203 players. Then the ratio's would take effect too, who's ratios are higher would depend on who gets what weapon.

Lets say someone has a 100 meter ratio of 65-75% for 100 meter shooting. Where someone else has 75-90% for 100 meter shooting on the same server. The person with 75-90% would get the sniper rifle, were the person with 65-75% may only get a scoped assault rifle. But if the 75-90% person were to leave the server, now the 65-75% person has the highest ratio on the server and would be able to be a sniper now.

Your ratios should be judge off iron site shooting for long ranger for snipers. Where your constant scoped/sniper rifle shooting would have less effect on your ratio to make it go up since it is on average a easier shot. Like this, if you were to make 3 good kills with a sniper rifle your ratio may only go up 1-1.5% at 100 meters. Were as a iron site shot at the same range of 100 meters may go up 3-5% for 2 kills since it is a harder shot to make. Now a sniper shooting below 100 meters, at 50 meters there ratio wouldn't go up at all for 100 meter shooting and it wouldn't help them.

You could also have a vote selection to vote a new person be to have the sniper rifle, SAW, M203, if there are more then one person with the same ratio.

Just because your kill ratio maybe low at any given range doesn't mean during the course of a game you can't make it better so you can be able to use other weapons. So if you ratio dips to low and you can no longer be a sniper, use your iron site skills make some long shots for a little bit to build your ratio back up so you can be the sniper again.

(Sorry for the typos, wanted to get this posted before I go to bed)
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 05:55 AM   #2
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What about suppressive fire? It is helpful to my team, but I don't hit anybody => my ratio goes down even though I was helping my team.
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 06:26 AM   #3
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another disadvantage :
it hurts the new players as they won't get a chance to try every weapon on-line ...

Biggest problem is that you need to store the name/player/accuracy somewhere safe.

For a clanserver/clanwars it is difficult, but not impossible.
If need be you simply keep track of the accuracy-score of each player in practice & clanwars. Do it by hand or with some kind of mutator and don't worry about security.

But in a public server ... you either need massive storage-space (every player that plays needs his data stored) or you're just giving the n00bs another chance to cheat.

You get the same stuff that I hate in CS : one group of players (the veterans & 'aces' that have 'high' ratings) with the 'best' weapons and another group (every new player on that server) that has to make do with nothing but pistols (or whatever weapon is available to ppl with 0% accuracy) ...
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 07:53 AM   #4
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Bad idea, people would always play on the winning team to get their stats up. If they were autochanged they would quit the game and find another server.
Ratios are irrelevent anyway, a lot of people will lay down suppressive fire (not really aimed to hit anyone, just slow the other teams advancing down).

A limited number of weapons & Equipment is a good idea though. Perhaps the configs could have a class assigned to them depending on what weapons are in the config. When you enter a game you get to pick a class, and use any of your configs that abide by that class's rules.
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 09:24 AM   #5
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Unless you limit the number of 'classlike'-loadouts you still get the 'all sniper'- or 'grenadier'-teams ...
The only thing this approach solves is people with 'unrealistic' loadouts (as they would be forced to use one of the 'predefined' sets).

However as soon as you want to limit the number of 'classes' available you run into a big problem : "How to do it so no single group of users is 'punished' ?"

Without any 'rules' (= first come first served) you will punish those with 'slow' connections as they won't get a chance to 'grab' the sniper-loadout because the LPB's got in first ...

What else ?
- kills ? This could deny the Minime to the ones who use suppressive fire a lot. What better weapon than the machinegun for this task ?

- accuracy ? same problem ...

- deaths (or kills/death-ratio) ? New players get punished for not being good enough. I think having to wait for an entire round in a one-life game is bad enough ...

- score for objectjves ? => supporting players don't get the 'rewards' they would deserve. And it would lead to the one thing you don't want in Inf (or any teamgame) : players who ignore 'defense' because you won't gain access to 'better weapons' that way.

The least problematic probably is 'first come/first served' combined with a maximum nr of rounds/maps/time you can use that weapon/loadout.
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 10:14 AM   #6
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I'd like to see a restriction on loadout too.
But I think it would be unfair to use the player's accuracy for that.
I' d rather use the money system.
Weapons like sniper rifles, nade launchers and SAW (maybe some attachements like acog suppressor) should be so expensive that only some players of the team could have one.
Give a team of 8 players enough cash for 4 standard loadouts and 4 loadouts with special items to start a map and then each round give them just enough money for fresh ammo and change some of the loadouts(1/3 maybe).
Of course the cheapest loadouts (or/and the fresh ammo) will be always accepted first then the more expensive if there is enough money.
And if there is not enough cash ask nicely your team mates to select cheaper loadouts.
If they don't well ...
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 11:20 AM   #7
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That stuff only gives the n00bs the perfect opportunity to ruin the game : simply pick the most expensive stuff so the rest of the team can't afford pistols ...
No amount of bitching is going to solve that as that type of 'player' just gets his kicks that way.
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 12:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Of course the cheapest loadouts (or/and the fresh ammo) will be always accepted first then the more expensive if there is enough money.
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Old 6th Mar 2002, 02:19 PM   #9
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A newbie wouldn't start out with a gernade, pistol and knife. I never said that, a newbie would start out with the standard loadout of a grunt. Meaning a Battle Rifle/ Assault Riffle/ Pistol/ Knife/ Gernade. If they wanted more specialized weapons such as a SAW, Scoped rifle, Sniper rifle, gernade launcher. They would just have to raise there ratio up a little.

The ratios would be for different for each weapon. Were as a SAW would be much lower since it is a support weapon, made for suppression fire. A SAW may only take a ratio of 20-30% to have one, then with each shot you miss since it is a suppression weapon your ratio would go down very little, since it is a suppression rifle and it is made to do that. Now if you hit something at a given range your ratio will go up higher like 5% or more. Where as a sniper rifle may only go up at 1-1.5% at the same range because on average the sniper rilfe is a easier shot, and would most likely be able to make more of those kinds of kills. So if your using a SAW as suppression missing a lot on purpose your ratio would go down very slowly for that weapon maybe only .1% for every 100 rounds fired. Because you are using it correctly even though your not hitting anything.

Everyone would have pistols and battle rifles when they start out as a option.

Your assuming that it is like diablo that it is going to take weeks to raise a ratio. I never said that, it could be raised with in the first 30 minutes to hour of play on a server. So it wouldn't take long to get your ratio up to what ever weapon you wanted. If you want a sniper rifle be more accurate and you will be able to use it faster.

Why can't the ratios for you be saved in a .ini file. Right now everyone time I play INF it updates the .ini automatically. It could just be a similar file listing Below 50 meters, 50 meters, 100 meters, 100+ meters for each weapon and put the percentage by it. This saved in to your .ini type file. Once you login in to a server it checks the file. Right now INF keeps track of how many servers I've hosted how many bot frags I've done, doesn't start from zero if I quit the game and come back.

I also never implied that every time you login in to a server you would start at zero ratio. Your ratios would always be there if you play against bots, practice offline go online. It wouldn't start over every time you play. Also your ratio wouldn't start at zero when you log in, it would be at your over all level when you play any server or even play off line. So you may have people that sign on that already have a 100 meter ratio of 85%

It wouldn't be rewarded like experience points in RPG games. That the longer you play the more you get. No it wouldn't be like that. It goes up on how good a shot you are. So you may have someone playing for 8 hours, by that can't hit a thing so there ratio may be kind of low. Were as someone that has been only playing for a hours ratio is really high for a given weapon because they can hit what there shooting at. This assuming both of the mentioned players had a zero ratio to begin with.

Each weapon would have it's own values on ratio. Like every newbie and veteran can have a M16, FAMA, SIG, etc but the attachments for each weapons you would need to raise your ratio (if it wasn't already at the level already). Like I can get a M16 right off the bat even if my ratio is really low. But I can't get a M203 until my ratio is at about 20-40% once I reach that I can now have it. If I want a scope of it I might need to have my shooting beyond 50 meters to be 45-65% now I can have the scope. It's not hurting the player it is rewarding them for the skill they actually have in playing.

Once your ratios are high, doesn't mean they lock in place and will always be high. Everytime you play INF will effect it. So a veteran wouldn't always nessissarly be on top, and a newbie wouldn't always be at the bottom. It depends on how well they have been playing. Your ratios would always be changing up or down depending on how your playing is.

Being on a winning or losing team would have no effect on your ratio. So switching teams wouldn't do anything for you, using your weapons more accurately would.

Last edited by Neglous8; 6th Mar 2002 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 7th Mar 2002, 02:13 AM   #10
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a) security :
Are you really that ignorant ?
If it is client-side the first thing a n00b would do is modify that ini-file so it says "100% accuracy at any range" (and/or make it read-only so Inf can't modify it no matter how bad I'm playing) ...
The problems with cheating in CS, TO & SF unfortunately prove that you can't trust people *on public servers*.
For clans it is 'easy' as either the league or the clan itself can set rules for who gets to use what weapon.
We're just lucky that the community is small enough & Inf's own security has been good enough to prevent aimbots from appearing on-line.
(the few coders in the community prefer to write mutators to enhance the game instead ...)

b) 30-minutes ?
What if I wanted to try this game for a few rounds ?
I can't get the weapon I want because I've not been on-line to get the 'required' accuracy ...
You could try to solve it by taking the 'off-line' practice into account for 'accuracy'-stats, but that creates security-problems and thus would not solve anything.

c) winning/loosing ...
I wasn't referring to 'winning' giving better accuracy ...
I said that like CS some players on the servers would have an advantage simply because they've been able to keep their accuracy high enough to gain access to 'better' weapons.
Unless you give 'new' players a chance to 'improve' their accuracy off-line the 'veterans' simply will have an even bigger advantage than they currently have.
The team with the most 'veterans' would have an advantage that *new* players would not know how to deal with.
Imagine a team with 1 veteran/ace (who probably has a sniperrifle) vs a team without any sniperrifle or other 'countersniper' capability (because they aren't "accurate" enough) ... You'd need to know the level pretty damned well to avoid loosing the match. While it is not an impossible challenge for 'veterans' the new players would end up as sitting ducks.

Loosing because the other team was better is one thing, but loosing because the other team had better equipment is not going to be fun for new players.

Altough there never will be a system that can eliminate those advantages, I think we shouldn't try to increase those advantages either.
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Old 8th Mar 2002, 09:41 AM   #11
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Definate case of the Rich get richer and the Poor get poorer.

For example, through having a slight accuracy advantage early on, Player 1 gets a sniper rifle. Player 2 grabs a SAW, and having no other option Player 3 gets the M16/M203.

The other five players have just their vanilla rifle and SMGs. They have to compete against not only themselves but also the 3 specialist on their team.

Having more specialized weapons the specialist have an advantage over five players on the other team. The ones they don't have an advantage against are the same ones inclined towards hanging back and using their superior firepower to get the job done. Their "Effectiveness" rises while they mow down hordes of cannon fodder thrown their way, while avoiding confrontation with enemies with comparable firepower.

Throw in a rudimentary system for forcing players from a certain Specialist slot after X rounds or minutes or whatever, and you basically have people playing musical chairs for with the specialist slots.

It could work, but I can't think of one time it has accomplished what it sets out to do.
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Old 8th Mar 2002, 01:40 PM   #12
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To the ignorant comment, I do realize a .ini file can be changed and hacked. Even when I wrote that. You could have something set in to INF that realize not even the best player would have 100% all the time, everyone has there off days. So are you telling me every single time you play you get one shot one kill for everything your shooting at. Very doubtful. For a ratio that isn't changed because it has been hacked, then it would be disreguard. This wouldn't hurt players that are really good. The only way it would be disreguard is if it never changes at all. Being disreguarded doesn't mean you can't play, it means you would only be able to have battle rifles, assault rifles, pistol, knife, gernade, with no attachments or no specialized weapons.

The ratio system would also work in conjuction with the limitor. This way it is more based on how well of a player they are, not who got to the weapon first. The limitor would be that the host of it would set how many Sniper Rifles, SAW's, M203's are aviable for each team. There maybe only one sniper rifle aviable then the person with the highest ratio that is eligable is able to get it. Now if they have it for a long time the other members of the team can vote for a new sniper, or new SAW user.. Then the next person in line would get it. If they vote again but there isn't anyone with a high enough ratio it would go back to the original person. Same with the SAW. The person that has the weapon wouldn't be able to vote for themselves to keep it.

Also the limitor that for the host they can select what weapons can be there. And how many this on any given map would help to get rid of sniper abuse, and gernade abuse. If there was none at all. Or instead of there being 12 snipers out of 20 players. What if there was only able to have 1 sniper, per each team avialable.

The limitor screen would have two check boxs at the top "Use Ratio System" and "Use Limitor" yes or no. So it could be shut off if you really didn't want it. If the ratio system is shut off but not the limitor then the weapon selection for certain weapons would be first come first serve, the vote system would still be there to vote for another person to use it. With the ratio system on, each player would trying to play better, shoot better to be able to be the one to get it. Not who was quicker and grabbed it up. The limitor screen would be a two columns one for Team A one for Team B. In those columns it would list all the weapons in INF with a check box, and a number box. Each weapon would have a "All" check box and a number box. So you could say check all for what ever weapon the host wants available for each team, or select a limit and give a number for how many of that weapon are avialable. Same would go for attachments. Each weapon would be listed, with it's own "all" check box and number box for setting how many. Now under each weapon would be all the available attachments there are for that weapon. Each attachment having it's own "all" box and number selection box. Then you could have a check box at the top asking if you want the other team to have the same setup. Or you could make a different one. You would set it so every player would be able to have a M16, SiG, FAMAS, P90, MP5, Shotgun (Forgot the name, I never use it) M9, FiveSeven, DE., Gernades, Knifes. But the attachments could be limited, then it would go by there ratio. As I said so it wouldn't be a first come first server. Sniper rifles, SAW's, Gernade launchers the host could limit how many there are for each team. Now the host could say there are six sniper rifles, but again if all players were starting at zero ratio. They wouldn't be able to get them right off, until there ratio was high enough, eventually though there would be six people using sniper rifles. They just wouldn't be able to have it right off. It would make playing more interesting, because agains unless they started from zero when first login in. Everyone would be the same, then after a while you might go "I think they have a sniper out there now". Not automatically knowing that there going to have one right from the start. But since the ratios would already be there, the host would limit how many sniper rifles are available.

With the limitor you could set it maybe you want a one team to have P90 while the other has FAMAS battle, or SiG versus AK. It would be up to the host. Yes people are going to cry about this, but as for me I learn how to use every gun in INF. (Minus the shotgun just don't really use that) So if someone did limit that I could only use a SIG for my team thats fine I'd use it.

Now every shot is going to count against or for your ratio even when your a sniper and snipers kills give your less percentage points then that of a iron site shoot. And it could also cost them more ratio percentage if they are continously missing there shots. Because like I said on average a sniper rifle shot is going to be a easier shot to make. If your shooting really bad you may loose the sniper rifle for a little bit. Until you build your ratio back up. If your using a PSG1 and just spray away the ammo because it is semi auto (not sure why you would do that) your ratio would be going down pretty fast, so you may loose the sniper rifle for a little bit. But if your using a SAW and spraying away the ammo since it is a support weapon the ratio dip for missing would be far less because it is a support weapon and you are using it for covering fire so only naturally your not going to be hitting every shot your not intending too.

Lets say you start with a M16 and you eventually want to be the sniper. Assuming your ratio was at zero for some reason when you login in to the server. Now you would makes your kills to evetually be able to get a scoped M16. Now with the scope your would help you make better shots so you can be more accurate towards your road to gettng the sniper rifle.
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Old 8th Mar 2002, 03:16 PM   #13
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(btw : excuse me for the 'ignorant' ... as you had spent so much time thinking of the system I thought you had ignored the security-issues such a system has)

Altough you could ignore 100% ratings (because they simply would be impossible), it simply doesn't change the fact that you could set it to whatever 'level' would be needed for the weapon you'd want to have.
Endresult ? Newbies will stick to the rules, while the the ones you wouldn't want to give thes 'better' weapons to do get them.

// "eventually there would be six people with sniperrifles ..."
But that situation won't exist on servers which run 24-hours each day ...
You usually join a match where there already are several people that have been playing long enough to reach the 'sniperrifle'-limit.
It probably won't be as many people as usual, but this system won't prevent it completely.

So for the new player joining all he sees is a server that prevents him from choosing his favourite weapon. Unless you tell him the reason, he won't like it at all. He might even think that it's some kind of bug ...
But suppose you tell them they need X% accuracy to get the weapon in his loadout ... What you get is a player that will focus on getting that weapon and not someone who wants to play a teamgame. That IMHO is a situation you want to avoid too ...

Maybe you can accept that, but then again you probably wouldn't use a sniperrifle because there usually are enough people that have them ... (so the rules wouldn't be necessary for you).

poaw said it best : the rich get richer & the poor get poorer
sure, the poor won't have really bad weapons like in CS, but they won't have the weapons they really wanted.
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Old 8th Mar 2002, 04:00 PM   #14
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For the cheating aspect. Being at 100% was just a example, hacking your file so it stays at any number would be disreguarded doesn't have to be at 100%. If you make it at any precentage and it never changes, it would have the same effect not just if you make it at 100%. So any ratio that never changes would be disreguarded, since it would be imposible. Lets say it is at 50% hacked. Well the ratio would know that if he killed someone it would have to go up, if they missed it would have to go down. So it wouldn't be possible for it to stay at the same percentage all the time.

The only weapons you wouldn't have out of the box would be a sniper rifles, SAW, M203, Genade launcher. Everything else you would be able to have right from the start. A Supressor for your MP5, maybe you need shoot one person maybe two to have it. Flash likes, would already be there for you to have. Laser sight would be available at the first scope option, and also at the sniper option.

I think it would make team work. The reason being. Lets say you have one SAW. You don't want that guy to die now do you? Or there are only two M203 people on your team. It's going to take team work, so they use there weapon that you don't have to help you out. If you have a speciality weapon player, and he isn't helping the team, just wants the weapon. Then his team can vote that the next person with the highest ratio that is quailified gets the weapon. (If there is a limit to how many are in a given game). Then players would realize if there not playing to help there team, they could have a vote and let someone else do it that could help better. For me if I had a sniper on our team that was helping us out, taking our the enemies SAW player. I'd let them have there sniper rifle as long as they wanted it. But if there just have it so they have it, isn't helping the team. Then I would vote for someone else to have it.

There is going to be some players that never want a sniper rifle, or M203, SAW, etc even though they have a ratio for it. This is only going to hurt the players are are "I just want my sniper rifle all the time, so I can kill things" This would make it so it shows, 1. there a good shot and they deserve the sniper rifle. 2. Knowing that if there not a good shot, there ratio will go down and they could lose it. 3. Knowing that your team could vote to have someone else have the sniper rifle because your not playing as a team, or not helping anyone out, just want your cheap kill.

The rich wouldn't get richer and the poor wouldn't get poorer. Everything is based on the players abilities in shooting in INF. So a person with Zero ratio can build theres up by playing shooting, hitting what there shooting at. The only thing that would be holding them back would be there own shooting ability no one else. Now for a high ratio person every shot the make, or miss effects there ratio same with a person with a low ration.

I was there think to make it more far to people with a lower ratio. Even though I don't see how it is unfair right now, since they are still getting all the guns, just not the specialized ones, and some attachments right from the start.

A Snipers ratio goes up for 100 meter, to 100+ meter shots only goes up 1-1.5% for hitting something. Now if they miss it could go down -5-8%. if a sniper is shooting guys and 50 meters and closer there ratio is only going to go up .2% since that is a incredibly easy shot, they should be using there handgun, or SMG. Now someone that has a M16, FAMAS, SIG, shooting at 100 meters, 100+ meters. A kill could go up 5-8% since it is a much harder shot. Where as if they miss, it might only go down -1% because it is a harder shot to make. Now a MP5, P90, AK if your making a 100 meter, to 100+ meter shot. First off I'd like to say good job! Those weapons you might get 8-10% up ratio, and -1% down for missing. Since those are even harder to make.

Now a Assualt, Battle Rifle at at 50 meters and below would still go up much higher then if you were using a sniper rifle at 50 meters. A asault, Battle rifle at 50 meters and below could raise your ratio up 3-4%, while missing only drops it down -.5-1%

Each weapon would have it's own ratio for it's purpose, effective range, and what the weapon is for.

Last edited by Neglous8; 8th Mar 2002 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 8th Mar 2002, 04:01 PM   #15
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i didn't read all the topic , because im french (so its boring reading a ratio story if you have to translate ) , and im using a 56 k (the time is running) .

i don't like the ratios (because i didn't read all and because you should be able to choose your weapon from the begining )

i like the team limitations , because in EP everyone has its PsG 1
or in non RA servers ereryone has the MP5+Robar loadout.

with a limitation , teamwork is promoted . and i think its a good thing . (not more than 2 snipers rifles and SAW in a team would be great, and not everybody is allowed to have grenades would be fine to) .

for exemple i played DOD today and had the MACHINE GUN ,
i walked in Anzio,when I took fire from another MG . so i crouched behing a wall (and saw the bullets passing). as a MG guy i had no grenades. i used the speak function and said "use your grenades".
then the infantry mens throwed handgrenades and i the area was cleared .
Thats the teamwork I LOVE .
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Old 9th Mar 2002, 02:34 AM   #16
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accuracy is totally irrelevant to player worth and/or skill

period
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Old 9th Mar 2002, 06:51 AM   #17
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// Neglous8
I agree : limiting certain weapons would force teamwork because not everyone could do everything ...
However I still don't agree with the method of selecting the players that should get the limited supply of 'special' weapons.

What I still don't like is the fact that you won't ever get to use any 'special' weapon (be it grenade-launcher, sniperrifle or SAW) because you don't have the required 'accuracy'-ratio ...
In the few games I played I either survived (without hitting anything => 0% accuracy) or I died at the start (again no chance to increase my accuracy).

And what about the SAW-gunner or sniper that never has to face an enemy because the enemy avoided his position ? His accuracy-ratio would drop not because he was 'bad', but because he didn't get a chanche to maintain it ...

But lets say I made it that far ... then I have to worry about any 'teammates' with an equal or higher ratio voting me off because *they think* I am not doing my job while in reality I'm simply not yet good enough to hit all my targets in one shot ...

And what about n00bs that simply would vote for themselves even though they would use the 'special' weapon for themselves ? There's no voting system in the world that could prevent that either.
Plus new players wouldn't know who they should vote for as they don't know why they should vote for or against a certain player ...

Remember : it's the public servers with 'newbies' & n00bs such a system has to function on.

In clanwars the 'all-sniper'-team isn't any problem as you could set rules of engagement.

For example : in the 'InfWar'-league the 'resource'-system would prevent such teams from appearing at the beginning of a season.

The 'limiting of special weapons' could be part of other leagues too and the clans would use whatever system they like to choose what player would get to use such a weapon.
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Old 9th Mar 2002, 02:46 PM   #18
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If accuracy is irrelevant I wounder what all that rifle training in the service is for... In real life if you can't hit anything your not going to be the squad sniper. If you can't hit anything do you think your buddies are going to trust you? I don't know about other people here, when I play it would be a comfort to know that the guy next to me with the sniper rifle, etc knows how to use it. Isn't just some virtual online sniper wanna be that thinks using it makes him look like a bad ass.

About the voting system as I said in a earlier post you would NOT be able to vote for yourself. It wouldn't even have a name to choose from to vote for. It would say "Request New Sniper" then the person with the next highest ratio that is qualified would automatically be it. New guys would never be able to vote for themselves since that isn't even a option. Even if you had the sniper rifle and hit vote, the way it would be set up is always vote for a new person not the current person. If you want the current person to stay sniper you wouldn't need to vote at all. Voting would only be if you wanted it to change.

Being in a match, and not shooting at all. Would have nothing to do with your ratio changing. Your ratio is only effected by hitting the target, and not hitting the target. So if you never even shot, it wouldn't even change, since no rounds were expended. The ratio wouldn't be some counting clock, that if you weren't doing anything it counts down. No it wouldn't be like that. If your playing and you never see the enemy and never shoot your ratio stays exactly the same. If you wondering how this would work if your ratio isn't changing, but yet someone that hacks isn't changing and gets disreguarded. Some one that hacks and makes there ratio never change would be disreguarded, because there still firing rounds, those shots fired should be effecting there ratio, if they hacked it so it doesn't, then there ratio would be disreguarded and they wouldn't get any specialized weapons. This would be there own fault. Now, and player that never shot there weapon they ratio would stay the same, it wouldn't be disreguarded because no rounds were fired at all.

As I have stated in earlier post your ratio wouldn't start at zero. Every single time you play, your ratio would always be changing up or down. When every you play INF, so this means, you could play Offline or Online and your ratio is still always calculating. Rimmer, the way it would be you could sign on a server for the first time and already have a 95-89% ratio for 100 meter to 100+ meters targets. Because A. you played bot matchs. B. You played against a friend. C. You played on a private server. Every time single time you play INF be it online, offline, private server, public server your ratio would be constantly changing. The only time it would be at zero is if was your very first time ever. Or your the most awful shot in the world missing on purpose.

I also never said a ratio would depend on a one shot one kill princible. It wouldn't any time you hit a living target your ratio goes up. Shooting a dead guy wouldn't count. Lets say your using the PSG-1, you hit the target at 100 meters. Dead center in the chest but he doesn't go down. He is wounded though. You would still get your +1% ratio for hitting the target. Shoot the second shot, hit and kill you get another +1% up ration. Now same situation same weapon, you see the target 100 meters. You aim, fire hit them in the head, one shot kill. They fall to the ground. Your ratio for a one hit kill at would be like +2%

I also said in a earlier post that the limitor and ratio system could be turned off all together or indivivualy. The limitor and ratio systems are two different things. The limitor is for the host to set what types of weapons, and how many of certain weapons are available to each team. The ratio system works a long with the limitor. So if the host only put 1 sniper rifle per team. It wouldn't just go by who had the least lag and who was quickest to grab it up. Thus taking away the player that just wants a sniper rifle because it looks cool, but they can't hit anything with it. It would go by who has the best shooting at 100, 100+ meter ranges.

Think of it this way, when your playing sports, no matter team sport you play. When your picking your team, do you not pick the best people with the right skills for the postion? Or do you just have your goalie run around instead, while someone else that isn't very good as goalie do the job instead. Do you have your race car driver work in the pits, and one of the mechanics drive the car.

The only thing that is hurting is the actually player themselves, they just have to learn to play better. Learn your weapons. I don't know about everyone hear. When I am playing online or offline and I make a 100 meter shot with a sniper rifle, it's ok. If I made 100 meter shot with iron sites, I feel I have accomblished something. Or when I am playing that I know it is harder to do, but it makes me feel like I am actually doing something that is difficult, then learning to do it well. Knowing that maybe not everyone can do it. Or if I can't do it, I want to practice until I can. That is what makes it fun for me.
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Old 9th Mar 2002, 02:51 PM   #19
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so if you do suppressing fire or cover fire you're no good? Give me a break!

I have ~10% accuracy and I can honestly say I do my part of the job, and even more...
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Old 9th Mar 2002, 03:06 PM   #20
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If you read my post you would see I already stated that weapons designed of suppressing fire would have very little negative ratio down. Because you are using the weapon correctly. The weapon that is going to hurt you the most when missing would be the sniper rifles. The other weapons wouldn't have as much negative ratio effects.
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