Yay America

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Rostam

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Hmmm, it also extends my conspiracy theory. So Bush and Blair worked together on the latest attacks, scaring their own people in to buying **** like this.
Yeah, that must be it.
 
The_Pikeman

The_Pikeman

Also known as Howski
Nov 20, 2001
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A competing bill also has been approved by the Senate Intelligence Committee, which would give the FBI expanded powers to subpoena records without the approval of a judge or grand jury.
Click to expand...

Ok can someone explain how that helps fight terrorism ...... "What you dont have any evidence of wrong doing ......... no problem"
-How.
 
cracwhore

cracwhore

I'm a video game review site...
Oct 3, 2003
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Christ...

'Go back to bed America. Go back to bed. It is all explained to you now. There should be no question about your government's legitimacy? Go back to bed. Here, here's American Gladiators - watch that - and shut up. Go back to bed America. Here's fifty-six channels of horseshit - watch that - you're in the land of freedom now. Go back to bed America - here's a flag - go back to bed.' -Bill Hicks
 
NTKB

NTKB

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Aug 25, 2001
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"The bulk of the back-and-forth centered on language making permanent 14 of 16 provisions that had four-year sunset provisions under the original law, which Congress passed overwhelmingly after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."

Thats ****ing scary...
 
Harrm

Harrm

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Oct 21, 2001
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...Irony?

So...okay...someone tell me this: we're in for another 3 years of this nonsense. At most, I can put up with about 2. I figure the US is due for a revolt soon anyways; we haven't had one of those in awhile. Who's with me?

--Harrm
 
U/D/T/SNAKE

U/D/T/SNAKE

Only partially annoying now
Apr 7, 2004
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In an old ZZ top song called "beer drinkers and he
Harrm said:
...Irony?

So...okay...someone tell me this: we're in for another 3 years of this nonsense. At most, I can put up with about 2. I figure the US is due for a revolt soon anyways; we haven't had one of those in awhile. Who's with me?

--Harrm
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Warning: according to the Patriot Act, you have been slated for immediate termination due to violations such as excercising your 1st amendment right to free speach. This is no longer a protected right.
 
yurch

yurch

Swinging the clue-by-four
May 21, 2001
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050721/pl_nm/arms_congress_dc

The White House on Thursday threatened to veto a massive Senate bill for $442 billion in next year's defense programs if it moves to regulate the
Pentagon's treatment of detainees or sets up a commission to investigate operations at Guantanamo Bay prison and elsewhere.

The Bush administration, under fire for the indefinite detention of enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba and questions over whether its policies led to horrendous abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, put lawmakers on notice it did not want them legislating on the matter.

In a statement, the White House said such amendments would "interfere with the protection of Americans from terrorism by diverting resources from the war."

"If legislation is presented that would restrict the president's authority to protect Americans effectively from terrorist attack and bring terrorists to justice," the bill could be vetoed, the statement said.
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Remember, if we all ignore it, it just goes away!
 
Arethusa

Arethusa

We will not walk in fear.
Jan 15, 2004
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Harrm said:
...Irony?

So...okay...someone tell me this: we're in for another 3 years of this nonsense. At most, I can put up with about 2. I figure the US is due for a revolt soon anyways; we haven't had one of those in awhile. Who's with me?

--Harrm
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Basically, no one.

Examine history. Note the dearth of revolutions that occur in times of even mediocre economic stability, let alone prosperity.

Capitalism's focus on the promise of a future of economic betterment is what makes it so fundamentally indestructible (though it is by no means the only socioeconomic system that employs this dynamic to ensure stability, it does do so to a much greater degree than just about any other, and it's damn successful at it, too). You can have no revolution that will threaten it, and it doesn't even ever have to deliver or even offer genuine potential to deliver on that promise.

I do not mean to single you out, but I've been hearing a lot of people (and only on the internet, mind you, where such ideas have no bearing on reality) talk about revolution lately, but no one seems to have even the slightest idea what that means. Revolution doesn't mean you get to get really pissed off, wave a flag, shoot a gun, and wake up to fair and honest political legitimacy tomorrow. It means you don't get to buy food for a week and may have to shoot your neighbors if they turn out to be bad people when law breaks down and no longer restrains them. It means you can't get cheap gas and it means you may not have a job. It means you probably don't have that savings account or that retirement fund. It means you have to fight.

Revolution is not easy.

Almost no one is willing to sacrifice even the smallest amount of stability, let alone just about all of it, and it gets tiring to hear people talk and bluster about something inescapably serious.

Besides, you are in for way more than 2 years of this.
 
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5eleven

5eleven

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The_Pikeman said:
Ok can someone explain how that helps fight terrorism ...... "What you dont have any evidence of wrong doing ......... no problem"
Click to expand...
Well.........I'm damn near afraid to say this, and it's only supposition, but before I post, I do NOT support the Patriot Act.

But playing I guess, Devil's Advocate, here's what I surmise:

The FBI, and several other governmental law enforcement agencies already possessed the power to issue administrative subpoenas for some information without judicial review prior to passage of Patriot. Not for just anything, but for certain items of non-intrusive information, and to build probable cause.

Allowing subpoena power without review or approval, relative to anti-terrorism would simply allow access to information more quickly, for an ongoing investigation, which might be time-sensitive. If you've ever tried to find a judge or prosecutor at two in the morning on a holiday weekend, especially for something that might fall under an "exigent circumstances" category, it's not easy...........I have not read this portion of the act, but I would assume it would allow issuance first, then require review in a timely manner, rather than the traditional way of a formal request first and review, then issuance.

Like I said, I don't support the Patriot Act, and here is my reasoning: The system should allow for checks and balances, and in cases where probable cause might be sketchy, it should always err on the side of independent judicial review first. Not that I think every employed case of powers under the act are abused, but because the act blatantly allows for and accepts a certain margin of abuse of power issues.

**climbs down off of soapbox**

discuss.
 
Harrm

Harrm

I am watching porns.
Oct 21, 2001
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Arethusa:
Examine history. Note the dearth of revolutions that occur in times of even mediocre economic stability, let alone prosperity.
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Right, but if you examine history, you notice that revolutions are typically started by the middle class. These people are exactly the ones getting shafted right now...and at the current rate of decline, another president or administration like this could be what puts the nail in the coffin and demolishes the middle class altogether. That, and the US is a country that has a reputation for not thinking things all the way through. Revolt is definately possible, if improbable (let's remember the sort of short-term thinking that led us to this situation in the first place).

Also, I remember hearing from one of my professors that one of the rights of the constitution actually allows for revolt under a technicality...but I have absolutely no idea about that, and I dont think our government would go peacefully.

I happen to know that revolt is a favorite subject of extreme liberalists and socialists, and a good number of college students in my area; generally the people who wont be revolting (or will be if they continue to not shower HAR HAR HAR). My comment was a joke, no more. Personally, I'm not going to go up against the army. Do you know why I'm not going up against the army? The army has friggin' flamethrowers. The last thing on my mind is picking a fight with a bunch of people with the ability to set me ablaze from across the street.

--Harrm
 
Arethusa

Arethusa

We will not walk in fear.
Jan 15, 2004
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Actually, the US army hasn't had flamethrowers for around 50 years now, if I recall correctly.
 
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