Eurofighter defeats two F-15E's

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DEFkon

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Dec 23, 1999
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I believe the war with china will probably be more of a cold-war fought with economics, industry, and invention. I doubt and hope that it'd ever come down to a straight out fight. Unlike fanatics, superpowers realize that actual combat is something that has to be avoided without exception because it has a nasty habit of escalating without any way to stop it.

See the whole benefit of becoming a super power is not only that the smaller powers can't risk directly attacking you, and it'd not just that the other super powers have to tolerate you, it's that the other superpowers no matter how opposed they are to you, they actually have to aid you because they don't want to risk destabilizing regions and possibly giving fanatics the chance of getting real power. The superpower club is an exclusive club where your alowed to mess around with the smaller powers, to insult and discredit the other members, but your never actually allowed to take them on, or try to kick them out. The only way out of the club is by biting off more than you can chew or by not eating enough.
 

chuckus

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Iraq wasn't a super power. Bush's fault lies in "biting off more than he could chew". Of course that holds true if Bush was a responsible leader.

If the US crumbles, Bush old boy and his cronies get to reap the millions of dollars in profits raked in from crooked contracts in Iraq. While the USA crashes and his replacement struggles to save a Fecked nation, he moves to [Insert Empoverished country with Wonderful Vistas] and lives like a king with all his corporate and political pals having barbecues/mistress swapping parties until the end of their days. So for Bush, it's a win win situation. For the rest of the US, their fate hangs in uncertainty.
 
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Harrm

I am watching porns.
Oct 21, 2001
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Boil the situation down a bit:

Saddam killed hundreds of thousands, and ran a regime modeled after the nazi party. Before you critique the US for going to war, dont forget that Saddam deserved what he got, and he wouldn't have given it all up without a fight anyways. Any unrest is to be expected. Hell, the former USSR is still in just as bad a shape. And yeah, it cost a lot, but it'll come back from the oil. Also, we did not "bite off more than we can chew." The US is quite a bit bigger than that. Now, if we tried to free and control all of South Africa, or invaded Asia, maybe that would be out of our league.

And dont get pompous about terrorism and civil unrest, Euros. You guys haven't done crap as far as the shatterbelt is concerned. That's a model of compassion if I've ever seen one.

If the US crumbles, Bush old boy and his cronies get to reap the millions of dollars in profits raked in from crooked contracts in Iraq. While the USA crashes and his replacement struggles to save a Fecked nation, he moves to [Insert Empoverished country with Wonderful Vistas] and lives like a king with all his corporate and political pals having barbecues/mistress swapping parties until the end of their days. So for Bush, it's a win win situation. For the rest of the US, their fate hangs in uncertainty.

Your lack of information on how capitalism works stuns me. That or you're one of those whacko doomsday who thinks the US economy is this fragile little being that will crack if some stoner enters his PIN number wrong. 10% of people in the US hold 90% of the money. That's the US economy. If anything, by your convoluted and unbacked reasoning that would mean that there'd be more money to go around for the rest of us.

Well yeah, China rocks
They probably will be the superpower soon enough, often I feel it changing already. But for some very silly reason I believe that if there ever comes a war between the US and China that software is going to play a bigger importance than hardware like this

No not virtual war or something, just the fact that the more you rely on technology the less power you really have.

The US is a management and services nation. China is an industrialized nation (or at least is about to be, by your definition). One isn't greater than the other, they're just different. Plus, why think of it in terms of war? Are we still at war with Japan? Do the Japanese hold little power because of their huge reliance on technology? How is that different than China's relationship with the US?

Please, dont mull about in front of your computer all day thinking the entire Earth is matter of who can blow up who. Given the right circumstances, you'll find that we can all blow each other up over and over again with relative ease.

--Harrm
 

Harrm

I am watching porns.
Oct 21, 2001
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Harrm, shut the **** up. Seriously.

You're the master of debate, Rosdam.

does it ships in "light" version too?

Not sure. Check the aisle for people who can't hold a legitimate debate. They've got a whole lot of "change the subject" for sale. Also, send for Rosdam. I think he got lost there ages ago.

--Harrm
 

chuckus

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management and services nation.

Well what the hell are they managing? Companies. What do companies do, walk around aimlessly managing and servicing things? You need a manufacturing base in order for management and services to operate. Where China, has some part if not total responsibilty for manufacturing almost every good sold by american corporations. From the lowly shoe to aircraft components. Some part or all of it is made from Chinese goods. If they raise the price these goods? Well, US economy collapses. The Chinese economy is growing fast and the poeple are reaping the benefits. There are more and more professionals and a middle class is suddenly appearing in China. The defining factor of a developped nation.

So this is point where economists say China needs US' buying power. If China and India's populations keep getting richer at it's 10% growth rate... well eventually, there's gonna be A LOT more chinese and indians with a LOT more cash willing to buy products instead of just make them. Hell even Canadians are feeling pretty good now that our dollar seems to be picking up. Then your "management and services" that make your nation run will be adjusting their strategies and looking for new places to open up. The corporations that make your nation rich are loyal to no one but themselves and will go where oppurtunity lies. All this scenario needs is the proper chain of events to set the wheels in motion for change.

And it just so happens your country is bleeding to death because of it's trade deficit. And it's dollar being raped because foreign investors (namely the rest of the developped world) are starting to wonder if you can pay your bills on time. Oh and look at this, a war in iraq that's sucking up millions and millions and this funny thing called an oil crisis. This does not bode well. The romans laughed at Doomsday warnings and speak of the empire collapsing. Then they threw their feces on the road and went to watch christians get raped by lions. I think CSI is on.
 
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Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Harrm you just spouted out so much bollocks that not even somebody with so much free time like myself is going to bother taking every single word you said appart and showing to you that it's bollocks.

Now others will probably tell me how you are entitled to your opinion but let me just say that you have a very stupid opinion. Out of all the bull**** you have ever said on these forums what you said there was the worst.

Yes now I am the bad man. Please make sarcastic comments about me. Doesn't make your post any less stupid though.
 

Harrm

I am watching porns.
Oct 21, 2001
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Harrm you just spouted...comments about me. Doesn't make your post any less stupid though.

You are a very poor debater who relies on bashing the actual debater rather than creating any constructive argument with any substance whatsoever. By that same token, I take it upon myself to say that every word you type is a symphony of idiocy. Please see yourself out of this debate if you cannot make a legitimate argument.

The Chinese economy is growing fast and the poeple are reaping the benefits. There are more and more professionals and a middle class is suddenly appearing in China.

Chuckus, while that may be true, it's also true of the rest of the world. As far as developing nations, India is right up there with China. In fact, the majority of our Tech industry has already moved over there. But where was the great collapse of the tech economy? We didn't have one. Why? Because all the research and management is done from the US. It means nothing more than a surge of white-collar jobs here in the US, and a noticeable decrease in blue-collar jobs.

So this is point where economists say China needs US' buying power. If China and India's populations keep getting richer at it's 10% growth rate... well eventually, there's gonna be A LOT more chinese and indians with a LOT more cash willing to buy products instead of just make them.

Remember that figure I posted before? 90% of the US wealth is in 10% of the populations' hands? The same holds very, very true in China and India (minority with the majority of money). Also, with their current population growth, that actually means there will be less money for the working classes.

And it just so happens your country is bleeding to death because of it's trade deficit.

We've had massive trade defecits before, and we're not the only one. These days, pretty much everyone owes everyone else money. And tell me how exactly "foreign investors" will take back their money by force. War? A trade defecit is simply a big, fat, IOU. It's to be paid back "when you can." Weapons manufacturers and wartime investors are fully aware of this when they sell weaponry, since they are just that: investors.

The romans laughed at Doomsday warnings and speak of the empire collapsing.

Ladies and gentlemen, you heard it here first: this is the end of the world, and we're all going to die. Chuckus said so; clearly it must be.

OMFG-Drama.jpg


--Harrm
 

Rostam

PSN: Rostam_
May 1, 2001
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Making up bull**** is a legitimate argument? Oh ok then. Idiot.

Just in case you are understanding wrong, I am saying your arguments are insanely stupid. Which doesn't have much to do with my stance in this debate.
 

chuckus

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The US, in all probability unless it pulls a miracle out it's ass, will lose it's stature as the LEADING world power. It won't Die, Simply lose it's place at the very top. Services and Mangement can be Done from ANYWHERE! It doesn't matter where it's done from. So if the firms that drive the US economy so chose, they could relocate to ANYWHERE in the world. It's just strategically advantageuous for them to be in the states seeing as it's the world super power and all. What if they lose that strategical advantage? Tell me what keeps those management companies at home?


It's doomsday for all those who are comfortable with the way things are. For people who can adapt and change, its not a big issue. Things will shift and the world will keep on spinning.
 
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Harrm

I am watching porns.
Oct 21, 2001
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Chuckus, you just said in entirely too many randomly capitalized words "Why would anyone manage from a country that makes it advantageous to manage from?"

Here's a big blank space for you to stare at while you reflect on this statement:














--Harrm
 

Pipe_Dream

3-time World Champion Bowler
Oct 22, 2004
548
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make this recipe and put it in China's water supply


[D-lysergic acid diethylamide](LSD)

Preparatory arrangements:
Starting material may be any lysergic acid derivative, from ergot on rye grain or from culture, or from synthetic sources. Preparation #1 uses any amide, or lysergic acid as starting material. Preparations #2 and #3 must start with lysergic acid only, prepared from the amides as follows:

10 g of any lysergic acid amide from various natural sources dissolved in 200 ml of methanolic KOH solution and the methanol removed immediately in vacuo. The residue is treated with 200 ml of an 8% aqueous solution of KOH and the mixture heated on a steam bath for one hour. A stream of nitrogen gas is passed through the flask during heating and the evolved NH3 gas may be titrated is HCl to follow the reaction. The alkaline solution is made neutral to congo red with tartaric acid, filtered, cleaned by extraction with ether, the aqueous solution filtered and evaporated. Digest with MeOH to remove some of the coloured material from the crystals of lysergic acid.

Arrange the lighting in the lab similarly to that of a dark room. Use photographic red and yellow safety lights, as lysergic acid derivatives are decomposed when light is present. Rubber gloves must be worn due to the highly poisonous nature of ergot alkaloids. A hair drier, or, better, a flash evaporator, is necessary to speed up steps where evaporation is necessary.


Preparation #1

Step I. Use Yellow light
Place one volume of powdered ergot alkaloid material in a tiny roundbottom flask and add two volumes of anhydrous hydrazine. An alternate procedure uses a sealed tube in which the reagents are heated at 112 C. The mixture is refluxed (or heated) for 30 minutes. Add 1.5 volumes of H2O and boil 15 minutes. On cooling in the refrigerator, isolysergic acid hydrazide is crystallised.


Step II. Use Red light
Chill all reagents and have ice handy. Dissolve 2.82 g hydrazine rapidly in 100 ml 0.1 N ice-cold HCl using an ice bath to keep the reaction vessel at 0 C. 100 ml ice-cold 0.1 N NaNO2 is added and after 2 to 3 minutes vigorous stirring, 130 ml more HCl is added dropwise with vigorous stirring again in an ice bath. After 5 minutes, neutralise the solution with NaHCO3 saturated sol. and extract with ether. Remove the aqueous solution and try to dissolve the gummy substance in ether. Adjust the ether solution by adding 3 g diethylamine per 300 ml ether extract. Allow to stand in the dark, gradually warming up to 20 C over a period of 24 hours. Evaporate in vacuum and treat as indicated in the purification section for conversion of iso-lysergic amides to lysergic acid amides.


Preparation #2

Step I. Use Yellow light
5.36 g of d-lysergic acid are suspended in 125 ml of acetonitrile and the suspension cooled to about -20 C in a bath of acetone cooled with dry ice. To the suspension is added a cold (-20 C) solution of 8.82 g of trifluoroacetic anhydride in 75 ml of acetonitrile. The mixture is allowed to stand at -20 C for about 1.5 hours during which the suspended material dissolves, and the d-lysergic acid is converted to the mixed anhydride of lysergic and trifluoroacetic acids. The mixed anhydride can be separated in the form of an oil by evaporating the solvent in vacuo at a temperature below 0 C, but this is not necessary. Everything must be kept anhydrous.


Step II. Use Yellow light
The solution of mixed anhydrides in acetonitrile from Step I is added to 150 ml of a second solution of acetonitrile containing 7.6 g of diethylamine. The mixture is held in the dark at room temperature for about 2 hours. The acetonitrile is evaporated in vacuo, leaving a residue of LSD-25 plus other impurities. The residue is dissolved in 150 ml of chloroform and 20 ml of ice water. The chloroform layer is removed and the aqueous layer is extracted with several portions of chloroform. The chloroform portions are combined and in turn washed with four 50 ml portions of ice-cold water. The chloroform solution is then dried over anhydrous Na2SO4 and evaporated in vacuo.


Preparation #3
This procedure gives good yield and is very fast with little iso-lysergic acid being formed (its effect are mildly unpleasant). However, the stoichometry must be exact or yields will drop.


Step I. Use White light
Sulfur trioxide is produced in anhydrous state by carefully decomposing anhydrous ferric sulfate at approximately 480 C. Store under anhydrous conditions.


Step II. Use White light
A carefully dried 22 litre RB flask fitted with an ice bath, condenser, dropping funnel and mechanical stirrer is charged with 10 to 11 litres of dimethylformamide (freshly distilled under reduced pressure). The condenser and dropping funnel are both protected against atmospheric moisture. 2 lb of sulfur trioxide (Sulfan B) are introduced dropwise, very cautiously stirring, during 4 to 5 hours. The temperature is kept at 0-5 C throughout the addition. After the addition is complete, the mixture is stirred for 1-2 hours until some separated, crystalline sulfur trioxide-dimethylformamide complex has dissolved. The reagent is transferred to an air- tight automatic pipette for convenient dispensing, and kept in the cold. Although the reagent, which is colourless, may change from yellow to red, its efficiency remains unimpaired for three to four months in cold storage. An aliquot is dissolved in water and titrated with standard NaOH to a phenolphthalein end point.


Step III. Use Red light
A solution of 7.15 g of d-lysergic acid mono hydrate (25 mmol) and 1.06 g of lithium hydroxide hydrate (25 mmol) in 200 ml of MeOH is prepared. The solvent is distilled on the steam bath under reduced pressure. the residue of glass-like lithium lysergate is dissolved in 400 ml of anhydrous dimethyl formamide. From this solution about 200 ml of the dimethyl formamide is distilled off at 15 ml pressure through a 12 inch helices packed column. the resulting anhydrous solution of lithium lysergate left behind is cooled to 0 C and, with stirring, treated rapidly with 500 ml of SO3-DMF solution (1.00 molar). The mixture is stirred in the cold for 10 minutes and then 9.14 g (125.0 mmol) of diethylamine is added. The stirring and cooling are continued for 10 minutes longer, when 400 ml of water is added to decompose the reaction complex. After mixing thoroughly, 200 ml of saturated aqueous saline solution is added. The amide product is isolated by repeated extraction with 500 ml portions of ethylene dichloride. the combined extract is dried and then concentrated to a syrup under reduced pressure. Do not heat up the syrup during concentration. the LSD may crystallise out, but the crystals and the mother liquor may be chromatographed according to the instructions on purification.


Purification of LSD-25
The material obtained by any of these three preparations may contain both lysergic acid and iso-lysergic acid amides. Preparation #1 contains mostly iso-lysergic diethylamide and must be converted prior to separation. For this material, go to Step II first.


Step I. Use darkroom and follow with a long wave UV
The material is dissolved in a 3:1 mixture of benzene and chloroform. Pack the chromatography column with a slurry of basic alumina in benzene so that a 1 inch column is six inches long. Drain the solvent to the top of the alumina column and carefully add an aliquot of the LSD-solvent solution containing 50 ml of solvent and 1 g LSD. Run this through the column, following the fastest moving fluorescent band. After it has been collected, strip the remaining material from the column by washing with MeOH. Use the UV light sparingly to prevent excessive damage to the compounds. Evaporate the second fraction in vacuo and set aside for Step II. The fraction containing the pure LSD is concentrated in vacuo and the syrup will crystallise slowly. This material may be converted to the tartrate by tartaric acid and the LSD tartrate conveniently crystallised. MP 190-196 C.


Step II. Use Red light
Dissolve the residue derived from the methanol stripping of the column in a minimum amount of alcohol. Add twice that volume of 4 N alcoholic KOH solution and allow the mixture to stand at room temperature for several hours. Neutralise with dilute HCl, make slightly basic with NH4OH and extract with chloroform or ethylene dichloride as in preparations #1 or #2. Evaporate in vacuo and chromatograph as in the previous step.

Note: Lysergic acid compounds are unstable to heat, light and oxygen. In any form it helps to add ascorbic acid as an anti- oxidant, keeping the container tightly closed, light-tight with aluminum foil, and in a refrigerator.

Disclaimer: This is a joke, this is only a joke.