Hawken

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DarkED

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Mar 19, 2006
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Anyone else playing this? It just went open beta a few days ago.

https://www.playhawken.com/#home

Hawken is a freemium MMO Mech Combat game in a similar vein to the MechWarrior series and played in first-person (in-cockpit.) You start off with a basic mech and can buy upgrades and better mechs by earning credits and experience by playing the game (or faster through in-game currency purchases.) Earning experience also unlocks automatic upgrades and 'optimization' points, which can be used for player-chosen upgrades.

This is an unconventional FPS; the pace is much slower compared to games like Blacklight Retribution or UT, and there is more strategy involved with the various weapons and upgrades you can equip on your mech. There is also the heat factor to consider (with all types of weaponry) as well as methods to offset it. Some weapons (i.e. TOW missiles) also have a cooldown period that must be considered.

I'm having a lot of fun with it so far. It helps that I seem to be good at this; I'm consistently in the top three and I win the match about half the time. I'm pretty terrible at multiplayer FPSes these days so you pr0 FPS guys would probably rock at this.

My callsign is SineDeviance. If you try it out add me to your friends list :D
 
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TWD

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I played the beta, and it's quite fun. Mostly because the artwork and the environment are so rich. But it doesn't have much longevity for me. I can only play it for a few hours before I go back to MechWarrior Online or Planetside2.

But it's something that I think you'd be stupid to not download and try.
 

Sir_Brizz

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I just can't get in to F2P games. I have so many games I have purchased that I don't play.
 

UBerserker

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I remember when I looked forward to this game until they announced it was F2P. And they kept showing the same damn stage again and again.

It's probably pretty damn good though.
 

ambershee

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Apr 18, 2006
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The fact that purchase tiers look a bit like this for the beta already show's how wrong it's gone with F2P.

$20 basically gets you a 3-day credit boost. That's not much of an investment.

Vanguard%20Initiative-Final.jpg
 
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Fortunately I have plenty of games on Steam and elsewhere that I haven't played out yet, but the F2P trend is basically going to push people like myself out of the hobby.
 

Kyllian

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ambershee

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I gave it a shot and started playing it yesterday and thus far my impressions have been quite mixed.

Visually, the game is pretty solid. It looks and feels great. The beta currently seems to be lacking some audio cues, but it also seems to sound pretty good to. The gameplay is fairly mediocre though - it plays much like a regular shooter with some heavy camera animation and a 3D HUD. In many ways it feels like a clunky, watered down UT. It seems to be lacking in a lot of variation, so I can see it getting old very quickly. The default controls are painful (shift+direction to dodge), but thankfully you can define this as a double tap and rebind the awkward keys.

Unfortunately for Hawken, there are two key problems I've identified already, and they seem to stem from the Freemium mechanics. You start with no XP and no credits, and there are two temporarily unlocked mech classes you can play with (and the 'Recruit' mech class is always available but has weak stats). Each mech class levels up individually based on XP earned by playing, which also nets you credits. This part is fine in itself, but it gets convoluted and problems start from here. Each temporary class is available for one month, and then gets rotated out and you lose your progress with that mech unless you have it unlocked permanently.

Mech classes take around 6-8000 credits to unlock. I suspect it will take in the region of 80 hours of play to unlock a mech class. Each game also earns you XP, which slowly levels up your mech. I have currently only reached level 1 in my two hours of play. Each mech has a number of upgrade slots, each with a number of options; superior primary and secondary weapons, and differing offensive and defensive upgrades. These also each cost a few hundred to a couple of thousand credits to obtain dependent on what they are. You have to however reach a certain level to unlock those options in order to buy them (there are even "prestige weapons" for high level players). Lastly, and this is the part that sucks - each level you gain on your mech class allows you to choose from an upgrade tree; allowing you things such as extra weapon damage, extra movement speed, better cooldown rates etc. This means that players who have leveled up their mechs will have a statistical advantage over those that have not, and will have access to better weapons and alternative equipment - something which is easily observed by playing the game since the game does not match make according to player level or experience. A level 20 mech will have chosen 20 more stat upgrades than a level 0; and have access to weapons that are not really different, just superior :/
 

DarkED

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To start with, this game is nothing like UT. It's beta, so there's things to be fixed of course, but besides some performance quirks there's nothing game-breaking here.

Visually, the game is pretty solid. It looks and feels great. The beta currently seems to be lacking some audio cues, but it also seems to sound pretty good to. The gameplay is fairly mediocre though - it plays much like a regular shooter with some heavy camera animation and a 3D HUD. In many ways it feels like a clunky, watered down UT. It seems to be lacking in a lot of variation, so I can see it getting old very quickly. The default controls are painful (shift+direction to dodge), but thankfully you can define this as a double tap and rebind the awkward keys.

If you want variation try switching up your primary weapons. You unlock new ones at certain mech-levels free-of-charge. I found that shift-dodge is more effective than double-tap for me, but that's player preference of course. Don't forget about the quick-turn (Shift+S or double-tap S.) If you're suddenly getting attacked from behind or you need to flee combat, using this effectively can turn the tide of the battle.

Unfortunately for Hawken, there are two key problems I've identified already, and they seem to stem from the Freemium mechanics. You start with no XP and no credits, and there are two temporarily unlocked mech classes you can play with (and the 'Recruit' mech class is always available but has weak stats). Each mech class levels up individually based on XP earned by playing, which also nets you credits. This part is fine in itself, but it gets convoluted and problems start from here. Each temporary class is available for one month, and then gets rotated out and you lose your progress with that mech unless you have it unlocked permanently.

Okay, the different mech classes all come down to play style and preferred strategy, not pay2win. None of them are really more powerful than the others. Some of them have unique abilities that can aid you in offense or defense, and some can dish out more damage per second but then require a longer cooldown period (at which point the Recruit's primary weapon is still humming along at you.)

Also, the starter Recruit mech is a perfectly good all-around mech. It's a match-winner if you learn how to use it and you employ rudimentary battlefield strategy.

As for the temporary mechs and their level progress, see my argument on that further down.

Mech classes take around 6-8000 credits to unlock. I suspect it will take in the region of 80 hours of play to unlock a mech class. Each game also earns you XP, which slowly levels up your mech. I have currently only reached level 1 in my two hours of play.

I have only been playing for about fifteen hours and I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,500 in-game currency and my Recruit mech is level 18 or 19. I was at least level five after two hours of play. I average somewhere between 2,500-3,500 experience per match because I do a ton of damage and get lots of assists. I have already unlocked a lot of the first and second optimization tiers for that mech as well as some of the items that go into the internal upgrade slots.

If you've only gained one level in two hours of play, you're doing it very wrong. You gain experience and rank by causing damage; kill/death ratio isn't actually a factor. Don't go for the quick kill every time, just keep your aim as steady as you can and dish out as much damage as you can. Even if your opponent kills you, you'll get experience for that damage when someone else tags him in the form of an Assist.

Each mech has a number of upgrade slots, each with a number of options; superior primary and secondary weapons, and differing offensive and defensive upgrades. These also each cost a few hundred to a couple of thousand credits to obtain dependent on what they are.

Again, most of these items unlock free based on mech level. None of the primary weapons are really any better than the others. It depends on your strategy; if you often find yourself fighting up-close and personal, go for the sub-machine cannon. If you're a mid-range guy, go for the assault rifle. If you're somewhere in between, go for the vulcan cannon. Otherwise, their specs are very similar.

Some mechs have other types of primary weapons, i.e. flak cannons, sniper rifles, missile pods, etc. But in combat, they're not really any better than your assault rifle. It all comes down to player strategy and learning how to time and dodge the opponent's attack.

You have to however reach a certain level to unlock those options in order to buy them (there are even "prestige weapons" for high level players). Lastly, and this is the part that sucks - each level you gain on your mech class allows you to choose from an upgrade tree; allowing you things such as extra weapon damage, extra movement speed, better cooldown rates etc. This means that players who have leveled up their mechs will have a statistical advantage over those that have not, and will have access to better weapons and alternative equipment - something which is easily observed by playing the game since the game does not match make according to player level or experience. A level 20 mech will have chosen 20 more stat upgrades than a level 0; and have access to weapons that are not really different, just superior :/

Again, this isn't even a big deal. Tons of other FPS games do this. If they have upgrades, you need to adapt. Employ strategy, learn to use shields, and learn to use the repair function. Even when I was level three or four I was easily beating level-20+ heavy-armor mechs with missile pods. It's all about dodging their attacks as best you can while effectively using TOW missiles, or sneaking up behind them to get the first strike (TOW missiles in the back do a LOT of damage.)

Also, optimizations don't even improve mech stats by a whole lot. They can give you a small edge in combat but only if properly used. Most people don't.

As for the different types of primary weapons, I already covered those. They're not more powerful, you just need to learn how to deal with them. If the other guy has the SMG, then get some distance on him to reduce his accuracy and pound away with your AR and TOW missiles. If he has the vulcan, a good strategy is to try to get on his side or behind him where he can't get a target lock on you, because the vulcan overheats quickly.

Don't forget that your Recruit mech also has a special ability that offsets heat; hit F when your weapons are close to overheat to keep firing.
 
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TWD

Cute and Cuddly
Aug 2, 2000
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I gave it a shot and started playing it yesterday and thus far my impressions have been quite mixed.

Visually, the game is pretty solid. It looks and feels great. The beta currently seems to be lacking some audio cues, but it also seems to sound pretty good to. The gameplay is fairly mediocre though - it plays much like a regular shooter with some heavy camera animation and a 3D HUD. In many ways it feels like a clunky, watered down UT. It seems to be lacking in a lot of variation, so I can see it getting old very quickly. The default controls are painful (shift+direction to dodge), but thankfully you can define this as a double tap and rebind the awkward keys.

Unfortunately for Hawken, there are two key problems I've identified already, and they seem to stem from the Freemium mechanics. You start with no XP and no credits, and there are two temporarily unlocked mech classes you can play with (and the 'Recruit' mech class is always available but has weak stats). Each mech class levels up individually based on XP earned by playing, which also nets you credits. This part is fine in itself, but it gets convoluted and problems start from here. Each temporary class is available for one month, and then gets rotated out and you lose your progress with that mech unless you have it unlocked permanently.

Mech classes take around 6-8000 credits to unlock. I suspect it will take in the region of 80 hours of play to unlock a mech class. Each game also earns you XP, which slowly levels up your mech. I have currently only reached level 1 in my two hours of play. Each mech has a number of upgrade slots, each with a number of options; superior primary and secondary weapons, and differing offensive and defensive upgrades. These also each cost a few hundred to a couple of thousand credits to obtain dependent on what they are. You have to however reach a certain level to unlock those options in order to buy them (there are even "prestige weapons" for high level players). Lastly, and this is the part that sucks - each level you gain on your mech class allows you to choose from an upgrade tree; allowing you things such as extra weapon damage, extra movement speed, better cooldown rates etc. This means that players who have leveled up their mechs will have a statistical advantage over those that have not, and will have access to better weapons and alternative equipment - something which is easily observed by playing the game since the game does not match make according to player level or experience. A level 20 mech will have chosen 20 more stat upgrades than a level 0; and have access to weapons that are not really different, just superior :/

I think you'll find that the problem is really quite the opposite. There is no reward for playing a lot. From playing beta I've gone through the whole tree when there were no costs. An upgraded mech isn't much better than a noob one. You can spend hours playing without ever feeling rewarded. The gameplay makes even getting kills feel unrewarding.

Which exposes the glaring problem with the game. It shouldn't be free to play. It just doesn't fit. It really works in planetside because of the massive multiplayer aspect. It works in MechWarrior Online because the costs are just a minor inconvenience to serious players, and you can get cool stuff. Plus I'm sure Clan Warfare will make a difference as well. In Hawken it feels like a poor excuse to water down the gameplay.

My suggestion is to find a team on teamspeak and play MechWarrior Online.
 
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DarkED

The Great Oppression
Mar 19, 2006
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I think you'll find that the problem is really quite the opposite. There is no reward for playing a lot. From playing beta I've gone through the whole tree when there were no costs. An upgraded mech isn't much better than a noob one. You can spend hours playing without ever feeling rewarded. The gameplay makes even getting kills feel unrewarding.

Which exposes the glaring problem with the game. It shouldn't be free to play. It just doesn't fit. It really works in planetside because of the massive multiplayer aspect. It works in MechWarrior Online because the costs are just a minor inconvenience to serious players, and you can get cool stuff. Plus I'm sure Clan Warfare will make a difference as well. In Hawken it feels like a poor excuse to water down the gameplay.

Eh, I'll admit there's little in the way of in-game rewards. Still... it's only beta. There might be some in the future.

UT didn't have any in-game rewards either (I guess they are kind of similar, after all.) Winning the match or placing well was it's own reward. That's the same idea in Hawken and I see no issue with it. Unfortunately, there is no stat tracking at current but the developer says it is coming in the future.

My suggestion is to find a team on teamspeak and play MechWarrior Online.

I signed up for and installed MWO but can't play (patch?) it because "The servers are undergoing maintenance. Please try again later."

At 4:00 PM EST? Really? This isn't something they could do at 3 AM?

I guess Hawken has stability going for it at least.
 
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TWD

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I signed up for and installed MWO but can't play (patch?) it because "The servers are undergoing maintenance. Please try again later."

At 4:00 PM EST? Really? This isn't something they could do at 3 AM?

I guess Hawken has stability going for it at least.

They update the game every other Tuesday at 1PM PST. Today's update was huge. A new gametype, mechs, items, weapon balance changes, performance improvements.
 

Kyllian

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Eh, okay. From the way people talk on the forums you'd think they hadn't updated the game in months.
Shit like that has become more common for some godforsaken reason
Should see how people are acting on Uber's forums in regards to SMNC. Uber hasn't spoken or done much SMNC related since mid-Nov and people are flipping their shit claiming it's proof that Uber has abandonded SMNC.
 

TWD

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Eh, okay. From the way people talk on the forums you'd think they hadn't updated the game in months.

Yeah. MWO has the worst forum community I've ever seen. They flip out over the most inconsequential crap. This is what happens when you take the pencil pushing neckbeard types and give them an action game. The community as a whole is one of the best I've seen. Probably because they've been together since MechWarrior 2! But the people that post on the forums are idiots.

The subreddit is a much better place to find info: http://www.reddit.com/r/mwo. Also keep in mind that eventually they're going to roll out clan warfare. So the game really accommodates organized teamplay. The best place to go is to the public teamspeak servers people have set up. I've been playing with the House of Davion, and there is always groups of people playing that you can join: 50.22.145.232:7345
 

DarkED

The Great Oppression
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Shit like that has become more common for some godforsaken reason
Should see how people are acting on Uber's forums in regards to SMNC. Uber hasn't spoken or done much SMNC related since mid-Nov and people are flipping their shit claiming it's proof that Uber has abandonded SMNC.

Maybe they should. SMNC kinda sucks after you've done one match to be honest :(

Yeah. MWO has the worst forum community I've ever seen. They flip out over the most inconsequential crap. This is what happens when you take the pencil pushing neckbeard types and give them an action game. The community as a whole is one of the best I've seen. Probably because they've been together since MechWarrior 2! But the people that post on the forums are idiots.

The subreddit is a much better place to find info: http://www.reddit.com/r/mwo. Also keep in mind that eventually they're going to roll out clan warfare. So the game really accommodates organized teamplay. The best place to go is to the public teamspeak servers people have set up. I've been playing with the House of Davion, and there is always groups of people playing that you can join: 50.22.145.232:7345

I'll check that stuff out, thanks. I was able to get it to patch earlier but I haven't launched it yet. Hopefully this game won't suck.

EDIT: Played a couple of matches. This game is hard and often confusing.

The gameplay and visuals/sounds seem to be top-notch. The level of immersion is outstanding and the map design seems to be a notch above what I've seen in Hawken. It also somehow runs smoother and looks better than Hawken despite using CryEngine 3.

As for the battles themselves, well... it's really difficult to understand what weapon groups you have available any given second from the HUD because it's constantly shaking. The pre-launch interface is a confusing mess and I have no idea whether or not I actually own these mechs (I'm assuming I don't.) I don't understand how to change my loadout or upgrade things (if that's even possible) because there seems to be no menu system for that under Mechlab. Every launch seems to place me into the same ice-themed map. Is there a friend system and how do I add people in a match to it? Also, why is it making Catalyst CC popup an audio device dialog every time I run a match when I'm not using audio through HDMI?

Fun game (kinda) but I do think Hawken is better when you just want to hop into some mech action. MWO has a lot of scruples.
 
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TWD

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Maybe they should. SMNC kinda sucks after you've done one match to be honest :(



I'll check that stuff out, thanks. I was able to get it to patch earlier but I haven't launched it yet. Hopefully this game won't suck.

EDIT: Played a couple of matches. This game is hard and often confusing.
The gameplay and visuals/sounds seem to be top-notch. The level of immersion is outstanding and the map design seems to be a notch above what I've seen in Hawken. It also somehow runs smoother and looks better than Hawken despite using CryEngine 3.

As for the battles themselves, well... it's really difficult to understand what weapon groups you have available any given second from the HUD because it's constantly shaking. The pre-launch interface is a confusing mess and I have no idea whether or not I actually own these mechs (I'm assuming I don't.) I don't understand how to change my loadout or upgrade things (if that's even possible) because there seems to be no menu system for that under Mechlab. Every launch seems to place me into the same ice-themed map. Is there a friend system and how do I add people in a match to it? Also, why is it making Catalyst CC popup an audio device dialog every time I run a match when I'm not using audio through HDMI?

Fun game (kinda) but I do think Hawken is better when you just want to hop into some mech action. MWO has a lot of scruples.

The game gives you 4 trial mechs to use. After a few drops (I'd say 10 wins?) you'll have the cash to buy a mech in the mech lab. Then you'll have the ability to customize to your heart's content. Once in the mech lab click owned mechs in the lower left corner to buy one and customize.

Keep an eye on the weapon groups on the lower right of your hud. Note that you can change how they are grouped. Also, backspace changes between chain fire and firing everything at once. Very critical since the trial mechs run a little hot.

There's more maps, but it tends to give you the same one several times in a row.

But in terms of gameplay the key is to stick together. It takes a while to destroy a mech, and it's hard to miss them with those lasers. So the true skill is all strategic. You can take individuals down pretty fast if you stay together. Where you deploy your units, and what you engage first makes all the difference.
 
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DarkED

The Great Oppression
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Right behind you.
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The game gives you 4 trial mechs to use. After a few drops (I'd say 10 wins?) you'll have the cash to buy a mech in the mech lab. Then you'll have the ability to customize to your heart's content. Once in the mech lab click owned mechs in the lower left corner to buy one and customize.

Keep an eye on the weapon groups on the lower right of your hud. Note that you can change how they are grouped. Also, backspace changes between chain fire and firing everything at once. Very critical since the trial mechs run a little hot.

There's more maps, but it tends to give you the same one several times in a row.

But in terms of gameplay the key is to stick together. It takes a while to destroy a mech, and it's hard to miss them with those lasers. So the true skill is all strategic. You can take individuals down pretty fast if you stay together. Where you deploy your units, and what you engage first makes all the difference.

I figured everything out. I had a lot of help from the HHoD guys. Good guys over there, thanks for that TWD :D The game is especially interesting when you're running with a 4-man group, because you're thrown in with pugs whose mixed-unit tactics tend to be less organized than yours. Still, it's one hell of a challenge and I like it much more than Hawken now that I understand how it all works.

I'm running a Raven 3L with:
  • Guardian ECM
  • 3x Medium Lasers in group 1
  • 2x Streak SRM 2 in group 2
  • 3 tons of Streak ammunition w/ C.A.S.E.
  • XL Engine 255
  • 2x (12) Double Heatsinks
  • Ferro-fibrous Armor upgrade
  • Endo-steel Structure upgrade
  • Exactly zero empty slots :D

It's a really fun mech to play and easy because I just cycle mouse1 and mouse2 to attack. I got four kills and three assists in a single 4-man match last night with this mech, and I also had the highest damage output of the entire team! We had an Atlas on the team and I somehow managed to beat it, my damage output was just under 1,000. It's a killer, and so is this game :D

I'm saving up for the XL295 (should have waited) but right now she runs about 118 kph, weighs in at 34.2 tons, and has a heat efficiency of 1.28. I'm also at max armor of 238. Once I go to the XL295 engine I can slot another Double Heatsink, which should give me a heat efficiency close to ~1.40. I could go for the Beagle probe too, but people say those are largely useless now that ECM exists.

So yeah, fuck Hawken. I doubt I'll ever launch it again. We need an MWO thread stat.
 
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Sir_Brizz

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So I finally played this for the first time and I was pretty impressed. I was 18 for 4 with the Vanguard. I really like the movement and the visuals are ridiculously good. It's just unfortunate it's F2P.