Consoles or PCs?

Originally posted by empty:
1) You can't edit or make mods for console games, heck, you can't even browse through a cartridge or CD!

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Which is simply an incentive for the developers to make the best damn game they can so that no one feels that they need to make a mod to fully enjoy it. Seriously, I've never sat down to play Xenogears, Gran Turismo 3, or Ico and thought to myself "Boy, I sure wish you could mod these games." In my not-so-humble opinion, console games have a far more polished, far more professional look and feel. None of this half-assed "Well, it's full of bugs and only contains half the features we originally promised, but we can always patch it up later" mentality that most PC devlopers seem to be stuck in. Take Anarchy Online, for example. That game was shipped to retail in what amounts to beta form. You'd never see that on a console.

2) Buying peripherals sucks. What, you gotta buy that memory card just to save something???

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What, you mean I have to buy a hard drive just to save a file to my PC?!

PC's are no different than consoles in that respect. In fact, they're probably worse. After all, practically all a computer is is a hodge-podge of different parts (peripherals) cobbled together. If you want more out of it, you have to put more into it.

More to the point, there's a perfectly good reason why consoles use memory cards nowadays; that being the fact that they provide the user with an unlimited amount of storage space. If memory cards were internal, once you filled it up, that'd be it. If you wanted to save anything else, you'd have to delete older files. However, with interchangable memory cards, you can simply buy another.

3) Buying a console would mean that you crapped on your PC's ability to support games. Same thing as buying a PS2 and Xbox in the same day, and never ever using the PS2.

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Many people either don't have top-of-the-line computers or simply don't have computers period. It's much easier to spend $300 on a console than to spend $700+ to completely upgrade your rig. You get more bang for your buck.

4) Many of us who play UT are fans of FPS's right? Console controls for FPS's stinks. That finger joystick in the N64 controller, for example, is like playing an FPS with 3 times the mouse sensitivity that you normally use.

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Yeah, and I'd much rather play Gran Turismo 3 with the GT Force steering wheel than with a mouse and keyboard. The simple fact is, different games require different interfaces.

It also depends on what you're experienced with. Playing Unreal Tournament with a gamepad would be difficult if all you're used to is a mouse and keyboard, just like playing Tomb Raider with a mouse and keyboard would be difficult if all you're used to is a gamepad. When I first started playing Red Faction on my PS2, I thought the controls were terrible. I was lucky if I could walk a straight line, let alone hit anything from more than point blank range. You know what? I got used to it. Toward the end of the game, I was hitting moving targets from 50m away while strafing side to side and jumping up and down. I swear to God, I've seen people kick ass at Quake using a flight stick. A FUCKING FLIGHT STICK!!! I have no idea how they do it, but that's the way the prefer to play it.

Originally posted by Genocide3K:
Most console games have too sucky graphics which give me headaches.

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Don't play many console games, do you? I have yet to see anything on the PC that even comes close to games like Metal Gear Solid 2, Ace Combat 4, Final Fantasy X, or Xenosaga. The reason for this is that consoles are standardized hardware. Developers don't have to worry about varying system configurations, so they can optimize the hell out of the code and be assured that it will run flawlessly on every console in the world.

Compare any of the recently released or up-and-coming PC games to their console equivalents. The console title will almost always come up #1. Visual aid:

Anarchy Online - Recently released PC MMORPG.
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Final Fantasy Online - Up-and-coming PS2 MMORPG.
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It's something I notice almost every time I play a PC game. While console games have progressed by leaps and bounds over the last few years, PC games have remained relatively unchanged. This can probably be attributed to the fact that most games still use modified versions of the Half-Life or Unreal engines, which are the better part of 4 years old now. Of course, there are some notable exceptions to this rule, but the vast majority of PC games remain firmly entrenched in the past.

-Keiichi

BOTH.

My PC and PSX/PS2 both get played (games) equally, they both get as much time as the other.

Btw, you really haveplayed FPSs if you think that ALL consoleFPSs suck just because of a controller. Somegames are better and I prefer keyboard/mouse most of the time, but some console FPs such as Goldeneye and Medal of Honour are great.

With the next generation, controls and gameplay look even better with PS2 Half-life, Agent Under Fire, MoH:Frontline, even Halo.

Btw, most FPSs on the newer consoles support keyboard and mouse so stop using that as an excuse

"It's something I notice almost every time I play a PC game. While console games have progressed by leaps and bounds over the last few years, PC games have remained relatively unchanged. This can probably be attributed to the fact that most games still use modified versions of the Half-Life or Unreal engines, which are the better part of 4 years old now. Of course, there are some notable exceptions to this rule, but the vast majority of PC games remain firmly entrenched in the past."

Graphically yes. Then again concoles have remain virtually stunted gameplay wise.

Give me a choice between Final Fantasy whatever and Cannon Fodder, I'd take Cannon Fodder.

Both. I have a PS2 that gets used weekly, and my pc i generally use daily for gaming purposes. even if it's just a little game in the background.

The major differences between the two, are the types of games. There are monitors out there that you can get to play consoles on, and i've used them... you wouldn't believe the image quality that those games truely have till you've seen them played on a monitor even if your just using a RGB connection.

Consoles and PC's differ most in the gaming selection. For example Consoles usually have tons of sporting games. Football, basket ball.. I don't know about you, but i don't want to play those games useing a mouse. Same goes for Fighting games.. Do you really want to play The Bouncer with a mouse and keyboard? If you could alot of the next gen systems have much more advanced interface designs, where just about every button and stick is analog. If the PC keyboards were designed with this in mind we'd be able to determin exactly how fast we move in Infiltration by pressing the keys harder.

I wouldn't say either platform has "better" games, as they're both have been just as stunted in terms of evolution of gameplay.

On cosoles you can break them down into: Racing, Fighting, Sports, Action-adventure (metal gear), or RPG (Final fantasy style).

On PC's you break them down into: FPS, simulation(flight/space/sub sims), RPG (diablo/everquest style) and RTS (C&C, starcraft).

That list of course doen't cover all the games for the platforms but the majority of them fit in there. I wouldn't say one selection is better, but some people prefer different things. I enjoy them both.

Some pc games will never be able to make it to the console without losing their depths. Fighters on the PC is absurb.
Pc have more control over rts games like Homeworld<---how the **** you'r gonna play this baby on the console? In fps, precision is essential so mouse and keyboard is king. I remenber the times i had played MoH on the PSx, sheezh. It'll be a lot more enjoyable on the PC.
Primary human to computer interaction is through the keyboard and the mouse. Primary human to (console chipsets cpu whatevrthehack) interaction is through the controller. Different genres are designed for those specific controls. hence I choose BOTH.

No matter how yoy look at this, PC's will allways be the most versitile, both in the genres of games you can play on them, but allso in the fact they they can serve as work machines aswell.

How many Consoles can boost a long stream of FPS'games and mods, along with multiple flight sims, + PSP7, Max 3D, Word and whatnot? none of them.

You can use the PC for allmost anything you want, whilst the Consoles stay rather limited, and dont forget that you need multiple consoles to play all the games you like, as they are developed for different systems.

Now if i could count myself amongst the middle class, and could afford both at the same time, i would get a console to sit next to my PC, probably a PS2 as it apeals most to me, and enjoy both of them no doubt, but i cant do that, and i can barely afford one of them, so i will stick with my PC, as it is better at the genres i enjoy playing, it can be used for work, the internet, you name it, not to mention that its games only cost half that of console games, its the safest bet by far.

I want to comment on the graphics for PC. Sure games may look better on the PC but try running Anarchy online on even the fastest home user computer.

Ao can bring a 2ghz system with a GeForce 3 to a crawl. Put it on the Xbox or PS2 and it would run at 60fps with no problems at all.

PS2 and Xbox pretty much can do the samething in terms of graphics on the PC.

For now though the Xbox can diffently do better graphics then the PC.

And I thought I heard something about a Keyboard and mouse for the Xbox. im sure microsoft is making one. ill go looking around the internet and see what I can find.

"Which is simply an incentive for the developers to make the best damn game they can so that no one feels that they need to make a mod to fully enjoy it. Seriously, I've never sat down to play Xenogears, Gran Turismo 3, or Ico and thought to myself "Boy, I sure wish you could mod these games." In my not-so-humble opinion, console games have a far more polished, far more professional look and feel. None of this half-assed "Well, it's full of bugs and only contains half the features we originally promised, but we can always patch it up later" mentality that most PC devlopers seem to be stuck in. Take Anarchy Online, for example. That game was shipped to retail in what amounts to beta form. You'd never see that on a console."

Youd never get games like Inf on a console simply because it wouldnt sell... And NO games on the PS2 will ever have such a huge enviorment(and so many features) as for example Operation Flashpoint(and that was a bad example...)


"Don't play many console games, do you? I have yet to see anything on the PC that even comes close to games like Metal Gear Solid 2, Ace Combat 4, Final Fantasy X, or Xenosaga. The reason for this is that consoles are standardized hardware. Developers don't have to worry about varying system configurations, so they can optimize the hell out of the code and be assured that it will run flawlessly on every console in the world."

I know the Pc graphics suck compared to the renders of PS2 games but here is an example on how the in-game graphics in FFX is going to look like on the PS2(I hate Gamespot..)



This is an in-game pic of Planetside, and this IS IN-GAME! NOT RENDERS!



you obviously dont play many PC games...

And youre saying that I cant use my CD writer to write cds and therefore the ****ing expensive memory cards are better...

And Tool: A PS2 couldnt even load AO...

The reason consoles look better is PC games have to take into account that some people don't have the greatest hardware. Even so, look at some of the games coming out soon for PC. Probably within several months PS2 will be outdone by the PC, and X-box and Gamecube will be defeated within 6. I rember in '96 when I first saw a display with Super Mario 64 before the N64 was released. I was blown away. Now the N64 is coming to the end of its life and look how crappy its graphics are compared to PC's.

I say both.

Here's the deal. Getting your computer to look as good as a console is going to take $1000 (compared to the $299). The balance always comes in because you can do so much more than just play games on it. But the broadband initiative will really begin to blur those lines. And support for HDTV will allow for resolutions of 1920x1080 as interlaced or 1280x720 progressive (non-interlaced), you can support things like web surfing and text reading. The XBox is pretty well designed to ignore the computer/console barrier. And one that I would have to imagine is somewhat attractive to game developers who only have to program for one computer hardware design. I don't know if the XBox is the one to do it, but it's really close to being a reality.

Even the mod argument goes away with the harddrive, and mouse/keyboard packages have been available since the SNES.

To make your computer look BETTER then a console requires 550$.
And thats with a monitor, if we add the cost of a Sony 32" widescreen to the price of a PS2 then see which one that costs the most...

To get something to play with on your console costs TWICE as much as something for the PC(at least in Norway..).

And from what we see with the XBOX, I think then after a while the "gaming" PCs will merge with consoles more and more, and in the end it will be the pc-console and buisness-PCs, i think...

Wow, your prices are all out of whack. Our PC titles are usually $40 to 50 and our console game titles are in the same range ($40 to 50).

I think the best comparison will be seeing the specs for a computer to equal the performance of Halo on the XBox, because the other ports have been from older games and have been spruced up considerably (Half-Life and Unreal Championship) so it's hard to make the comparison.

Its the same here in Denmark, new PC games cost around 350 Dkr. and new consolegames around 650,- Dkr.

Consolegames cost +/- fl 150,-
pc-games cost +/- fl 90 - 100,-
an average pc would cost fl 2000 - 3000,- (compared to just 700,- for a PS2 ...)
So pc's are a lot more expensive, but since you can do so much more than 'just' play games ...

Originally posted by "Sp!ke":
And NO games on the PS2 will ever have such a huge enviorment(and so many features) as for example Operation Flashpoint.

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I can name one right now. Smuggler's Run 2.




Not only is the draw distance in Smuggler's Run 2 considerably greater than in Operation Flashpoint, but the landscapes are more detailed as well. Then there's the fact that Smuggler's Run 2 will run at a garaunteed 60 fps on every PS2 in the world, where as Operation Flashpoint runs like ass on anything less than a top-of-the-line computer (even on my P3 700MHz with a GeForce 2 GTS Pro and 256MB RAM, I was lucky to get 20 fps).

I know the Pc graphics suck compared to the renders of PS2 games but here is an example on how the in-game graphics in FFX is going to look like on the PS2(I hate Gamespot..)

This is an in-game pic of Planetside, and this IS IN-GAME! NOT RENDERS!

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Okay, first of all, the screenshots I posted were not pre-rendered. I don't know what gave you the impression that they were, considering the player names hovering over everyone's head which clearly indicate that it's in-game.

Secondly, that shot you posted wasn't of Final Fantasy X. It was of Final Fantasy XI (otherwise known as Final Fantasy Online). It's not particaularly fair to compare a First-Person Shooter with an MMORPG, now is it? At least I had the decency to compare it to a PC MMORPG. It was also nice of you to post the smallest, blurriest shot you could find. Here's a higher quality version:



Not so bad, is it? It certainly has Planetside beat when it comes to detailed character models, which is especially impressive considering that FFXI is an MMORPG.

On a side note, if you want to see screenshots of Final Fantasy X, look no further...





Of course, comparing RPG's to FPS's is like comparing apples to oranges. Let's try something a little more similar, like Outcast 2:




More shots can be found here.

you obviously dont play many PC games...

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Only every fucking day...

And youre saying that I cant use my CD writer to write cds and therefore the ****ing expensive memory cards are better...

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you have to buy that CD writer? Just like you'd have to buy the "fucking expensive" memory cards (heaven forbid that you have to spend $9.99 on a memory card, compared to that $100+ CD burner which you seem so fond of)?

And Tool: A PS2 couldnt even load AO...

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Yeah. The program would probably crash half way through...

To make your computer look BETTER then a console requires 550$.
And thats with a monitor, if we add the cost of a Sony 32" widescreen to the price of a PS2 then see which one that costs the most...

To get something to play with on your console costs TWICE as much as something for the PC(at least in Norway..).

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Well, aparently, Norway is the exception. Here in the US, building a top-of-the-line gaming PC from the ground up will cost you a minimum of around $1000 (more, depending on who/where you buy from and whether you're willing/able to build it yourself).

You need a case: $50
You need a top-of-the-line CPU (1GHz+): $250
You need a motherboard: $100
You need a top-of-the-line graphics card: $400
You need a sound card: $100
You need a CD-ROM drive: $100
You need a fairly large HDD (10GB+): $100
You need a minimum of 256MB RAM: $200
You need a decent monitor: $250
You need a pair of decent speakers: $100
You need a mouse and keyboard: $40
Total: $1690 (est.)

Compare that to a console...

You need the console: $300
You need a decent television: $250
Total: $550

A rather substantial difference, wouldn't you say? It's even more remarkable when you stop to consider that the newest generation of consoles are just as powerful as those ultra-expensive top-of-the-line PCs. Take the Xbox, for example. You're basically getting $1500 worth of PC in a $300 package. How can you lose?

And as Monk said, PC and console games are equally priced here in the US. Most will run you around $50.

-Keiichi

Wait! I just remembered something! EMULATERS! PCs can emulate any console game. Right now there's a PS2 emulater. Soon there will be an XBox emulater, GameCube emulater, and a bunch of other emulaters. The barrier between console and PC is already broken, but the PC is the only thing to get something out of it.

Show me a link to this supposed PS2 emulator. I've heard plenty of rumors, but so far no one has provided me with any hard facts as to it's existence.

Even so, have you ever actually tried an emulator? Half the games won't run, and the ones that do don't run very well. You may (and that's one big-ass MAY) be able to emulate a PS2 game, but will it run at a decent framerate and will it run without graphical glitches? Not likely. PCs are barely able to emulate PSX games (*cough* Bleem! *cough*). What makes you think they'd be capable of emulating the PS2?

-Keiichi

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a somewhat decent X-box emmulator since it's somewhat similar to Windows boxes anyhow..

Someone just informed me that planetside will be one of those Pay per month games, which basically means you can rip down those screenies as far as i'm concerned.

I'm affraid that mp only games just don't apeal to me, and the concept of a mp only game that you have to pay per month for.. well i'm sure you can estimate my aproxamite value of such a title.

but anyhow.

another aspect that we haven't mentioned that does make up a more substantial part of gaming that we'd like to acknowledge are the warzeing and cracking communites. How many of us have ever borrowed a copy of a game from a friend and kept the game on the HD, or made a burned copy? Have you ever needed a No-cd program because you didn't have the disc or the disc was damaged? Or even download a whole warezed copy??

I'm sure that at one time or another, everyone has at least looked for something along those lines. I'm not familar with the console warezing communites, but i bet you one thing.. You'd need a cd burner.

As far as prices go, no matter what way you cut it... You can blame Nvidia.

If you want a pc that's going to compete with a console your going to be paying 300 or so dollars for the video card alone. Bing right there, you've already hit the cost of a console.. You didn't even get a case, or power supply, (we'll skip the monitor since most people dont go out and buy a tv just for a console)

So if you gave someone 350 dollars and told them to buy, and or build the fastest gaming rigs possible, and comparied them to next gen console... chances are the console would win.

But PC's are more than just gaming rigs. Most people use them as tools as well. Is there a photoshop, or illustraitor, or even a wordpad for a console? Will a console be able to do video cature, or mpeg encoding, Will napster run on an xbox or PS2? Are you going to write private emails to your GF on the TV in the living room? Or do some *ahem* one handed web surfing. Will you be able to put "expierence in Xbox administration" on your Resume.?

Bottom line is that PC's are multipurpose machines. And that's what your paying for in the long run. as i said before.. i really dont consider them competeing because they are apples and oranges.

Originally posted by DEFkon
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a somewhat decent X-box emmulator since it's somewhat similar to Windows boxes anyhow..

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only somewhat ? The fact that porting games to that platform is supposed to be pretty easy should make writing emulators pretty easy & foolproof (compared to the other consoles) ...

Someone just informed me that planetside will be one of those Pay per month games, which basically means you can rip down those screenies as far as i'm concerned.

I'm affraid that mp only games just don't apeal to me, and the concept of a mp only game that you have to pay per month for.. well i'm sure you can estimate my aproxamite value of such a title.

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name any massively multiplayer game that is free ?
except for a few betatests, I think you won't find any that can offer the 'graphics'-quality of something like planetside ...
I think Phantasy Star Only (DreamCast) is the only thing (or at least I think it used to be free).

but anyhow.

another aspect that we haven't mentioned that does make up a more substantial part of gaming that we'd like to acknowledge are the warzeing and cracking communites. How many of us have ever borrowed a copy of a game from a friend and kept the game on the HD, or made a burned copy? Have you ever needed a No-cd program because you didn't have the disc or the disc was damaged? Or even download a whole warezed copy??

I'm sure that at one time or another, everyone has at least looked for something along those lines. I'm not familar with the console warezing communites, but i bet you one thing.. You'd need a cd burner.

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LOL : yes you'd need a PC just to play those stolen games ...

As far as prices go, no matter what way you cut it... You can blame Nvidia.

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maybe Ati is going to challenge that ...
+ the Kyro-chipsets aren't all that bad (as cheap cards can be ..)
so there is hope

If you want a pc that's going to compete with a console your going to be paying 300 or so dollars for the video card alone. Bing right there, you've already hit the cost of a console.. You didn't even get a case, or power supply, (we'll skip the monitor since most people dont go out and buy a tv just for a console)

So if you gave someone 350 dollars and told them to buy, and or build the fastest gaming rigs possible, and comparied them to next gen console... chances are the console would win.

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Just wait a few years, then that graphicscard is cheaper than a Console ... (then again : so will the console ...)

But PC's are more than just gaming rigs. Most people use them as tools as well. Is there a photoshop, or illustraitor, or even a wordpad for a console? Will a console be able to do video cature, or mpeg encoding, Will napster run on an xbox or PS2? Are you going to write private emails to your GF on the TV in the living room? Or do some *ahem* one handed web surfing. Will you be able to put "expierence in Xbox administration" on your Resume.?

Bottom line is that PC's are multipurpose machines. And that's what your paying for in the long run. as i said before.. i really dont consider them competeing because they are apples and oranges.

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- Linux for PS2 is available in Japan, and it looks like the USA will have it too ...

- DC had a modem and you could surf the internet (and write e-mails), X-box & PS2 will have similar applications ...