Weapons at the ready.

I know my brother is able to make holes in his target over lap each other. At 100 yards, Crouched, open sites, using standard ammo with a standard WWII spec M1 Garand, with a air tempature of about 78F (was in june). I've personally seen him do it several times. r

Three Shots.

I've seen him (my brother) do in three shots, in a spread the size of a quarter at 100 yards, open sites. One shot overlaping another. And it was on purpose. I would say over all, from the first shot to the last, it was about 4 minutes. A little of that, getting in the crouched position.

You have to think when your in the services this is what you do for a living, you site in your weapon. And practice shooting it. So you will be able to do get patterns the size of silver dollars or quarters (US Money ).

Me on the other hand I need a scope due to a scar, that I got on the lense of my right eye. When I was 15..

I too have seen, personally military rifles and there civilian version firing quick shows. With tight groups, at 100 yards or more. With open sites.

Most military weapons are accurate, with training the operator make them extremely accurate. These more modern guns aren't the Russian W.W.II submachine gun, just to spray rounds, having hardly any open sights. Most assault rifles are made around how accurate they can be, ease of use, and durability.

These aren't paint guns, there weapons to get the round s down range, right where the user wants them to be. As accurately as they can be, under the stress of combat. The more accurate you are to get the rounds down range of the target, getting or wounding it the first time. Saves that, person, unit, army from exposing themselves from further dangers.

As for me, I feel that majority of the players of INF and soldiers in real life situations. Will always go for there sites, over any kind of hip shooting. Why, for one reason. There are enemy infantry coming up the street. Firing from the hip, in INF it is possible to get a kill. Maybe taking a couple shots, one to two of them to get your target ranged and sighted in. Then the third hitting your target. That is if you can do it in three shots. These two shots getting your range, will tip of your intentions to the enemy, reveal that you are there even if they can't see you. On the other hand, getting in to position raising your guns to use the sites. Finding your target. Aiming at the largest target the chest. Depending on what weapon (Robar does it in one) Firing two quick shots target is dead, rapidly move to another target and repeat. It is possible to take 2 to 3 targets out in a matter of ten seconds. Having the first two targets drop before the other enemy realize where it came from. Then move position and set up for again.?

[This message was edited by Neglous8 on Jan 31, 2001 at 15:25.]

A Laser Tag gun has has no recoil at all. Having shot laser tag guns and real weapons. It is nothing a like. A laser tag gun, you can shoot it and shoot it and you pulling the trigger won't make you get off target, because there is not recoil to the gun. It is a gun based on light, if you take a flash light out side at night. Turn it on. Shine it at your hand. The circle of light is pretty small. Now shine it 50 feet away from you, how big is the light radius now? The further light has to travel the bigger the radius of it is going to be. Even a laser site gets larger with the distance. I'm not questioning that you would be able to hit things from the hip with a gun based on light. I have done the samething. Plus the sensor of the laser tag on the player your shooting has it's own arc of what light it will pick up and what it won't.

Unless your using a shot gun, the pellets will expand out, the further they travel. A bullet doesn't get bigger and bigger the further it travels. I don't doubt that you make hip shots in INF, with burst. You would just have to aim towards there feet, squeeze off the burst, and it is going to climb right up the front of them. But how far away where you from them?

For me, I aim the M-16 in INF, I use single shot, and make head shots, and good distances. With one round. Every so often it does take me two shots, because I hit the first one in the chest. (Can't wait til the damage system, is in for bleeding). I have made many many, single shot head shots. Using iron sites with the M-16. I usually am in the first, building on the left side of the street. In extreme predjuice. The one where you can get on top of the roof. Standing right next to the window, leaning out of it. Now from this position you can't see down the street because the building in front of you. But you can see acrossed the street up on the hill. I've shot, several bots, with one shot. That where walking on the hill. Talking one shot for each one I killed. Using open sites, single shot. Was kind of cool, seeing the bot drop then they would slide down the hill. A lthough only got two before the rest of the bots ran down the hill. Have done this on many occasions. Or being the building a head of that. Shooting out the window, again aiming open sites, with the M-16, in single shot. Usually don't switch to burst, unt il the enemy is in a certain range. From this position you can see the bots run to the wall to start coming up the street, or start they run accrossed the street heading for the crashed C-130. Again, using single shot, open sites, with the M-16, killing with head shots. Them running acrossed the street is a harder shot, have to lead it a little. I need to work on that kind of shot. )

[This message was edited by Neglous8 on Feb 06, 2001 at 03:30.]

Recoil has a lot to do with shooting. Plus weight of the weapon. R-Forces, please go fire some real weapons.

Real fire arms, kick, jerk back, climp up when shot. Your experience with Paint Ball, and Laser Tag doesn't apply, these elements aren't there.

Having fired many weapons, holding them from the hip you have nothing to brace it against. Can't brace against your chest or stomach, one that would be stupid. Two it could possibly fracture a rib or bruise you from the recoil and kick of the weapon. .22 has hardly any kick. If your shooting anything bigger it is a different story. Plus depends on barrel length, powder grain, etc.

Aiming through the sites, you brace the butt stock against your shoulder to minize this effect. Plus in doing this, using your front hand to hold it down, plus your shoulder is helping hold it down from the climb of the muzzle aswell.

Even as I write this, I know for R-Force it will never be that way. I'll be wrong and he'll be right. That, I have no idea what I am talking about. Go in to in lengthy example how hip shooting works. When with real fire arms, it doesn't work that way. From personal experience knowing numerous shooters of military weapons and service personal. Combat veterans and so on..

For many, many years hip shooting has bothered me really bad. Especailly in the movies. I just wanted INF to make things seem as realistic as possible. When playing INF for the first time the player would be Whoa, this is something new. I can't do this, or this. I have to learn how to be good.

In my online flight sim experience (WarBirds and AirWarrior). I wasn't a lone when I would read about the real plans, read about what they could do and what they couldn't do. When to use it and when not to use it. It add a new deminsion. Was always funny you could tell the newbies. Jumping in there P-51 Mustangs. Then wondering why they can't stay with a Zero. A P-51 was a medium to high fighter, best used at high speeds. Once it got low and slow, it was harder to fly. While as a Zero was a medium to low attitude fighter, and it could turn extreme well. It couldn't go as fast though. And could be damaged extremely easy.

These elements I have always wanted to see ina FPS. When you see players online, and they're sniping. Know they must be pretty good to be able to do that at long range.

I just think developers should give credit to the players. Everyone is always Playability over Realism, for me I will always choose realism. I want something that I have to learn and try at to get good. It will keep me coming back. Something that the smallest thing is realistic. To hold it above other games or MODs. Just some developers seem to think the end user isn't bright. That we couldn't understand a more complex game. In WarBirds my stick and throttle set had 42 different buttons to do 42 different things. Shortly it was all second nature. Yes there was a lot of things, but you didn't use everyone of those every second.

Just want to see INF to set new standards in game play, realism. Not just become another military MOD, that has a ton of weapons just to have them. Have the INF team push the limits. Give stand alone games a run. It can be done. There is ways this could be done. Having Adm options for servers how realistic do they want to go, etc. Giving the server end controls, as mention in other posts. Tuning on realistic sniping. Having to adjust for windage, and elevation. Having visible weapons on the outside of the bodies. Turning off shooting from the hip. Things like there where they could be easly shut off.

For me the shooting from the hip is one thing that makes INF look like every other MOD. Just want INF to race to the top in realism. Make it feel like you are really there, make it where, learning real tactics in the game will help you. t