ACORN is at it again.(Investigation underway)

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GG-Xtreme

You are a pirate!
Mar 12, 2008
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I've already taken a look at it, but it doesn't matter. Shouldn't Obama be saying what he has put in writing? Or do you find it okay that he just says whatever he wants to appeal to the people he talking to with careless disregard for what he has said or done in the past?
Obama himself has never said that people making $200k would see tax increases. He said people making less than $200k would see a tax decrease. That is completely accurate. People making $200k-$250k would not see much of a change.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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He said, and I'm almost quoting:

"If you're not making more than $200k per year, we're not going to raise your taxes."

First of all, allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire can be construed as not raising taxes, it's just letting cuts "run out" even though the net effect is higher taxes.

Second, Biden said almost the exact same thing last week except he used $150k per year.

If Obama's own running mate doesn't understand his tax plan... well, draw your own conclusion if you care.
 

GG-Xtreme

You are a pirate!
Mar 12, 2008
332
0
0
He said, and I'm almost quoting:

"If you're not making more than $200k per year, we're not going to raise your taxes."

First of all, allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire can be construed as not raising taxes, it's just letting cuts "run out" even though the net effect is higher taxes.

Neither of those statements are untrue, and neither of them said that people making less than $250k would see higher taxes. And the Bush tax cuts expiring seems like a good thing if you look a little more than 8 years back.

Second, Biden said almost the exact same thing last week except he used $150k per year.

If Obama's own running mate doesn't understand his tax plan... well, draw your own conclusion if you care.

He was just using an example, so he did not necessarily misspeak. How does that compare the fact that Sarah Palin didn't know ANY of McCain's policies, couldn't even name a Supreme Court Case, didn't know the job of a VP, and could do nothing but spout gibberish when asked about the economy?
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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Neither of those statements are untrue, and neither of them said that people making less than $250k would see higher taxes. And the Bush tax cuts expiring seems like a good thing if you look a little more than 8 years back.
So now you're saying that the middle class having higher taxes is a good thing? Which one is it? :p

The Bush tax cuts look pretty good if you look back 3 years. Don't forget that by the end of 2001 we were almost in a recession and narrowly avoided it. This was 8 months after Bush became President and he had enacted almost no major law changes during that time.

Our current economic climate has almost nothing to do with tax cuts for middle class families, and everything to do with lack of regulation by regulating bodies of government sponsored financial institutions. It wasn't helped along by the refusal of Congress between 2005-2007 to actually take care of a problem within the two largest mortgage financiers in the country that was noticed and reported on several time between those years. Their inability to take action on it guaranteed our current crisis.
 

hal

Dictator
Staff member
Nov 24, 1998
21,409
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------->
www.beyondunreal.com
Given the current financial situation, however, there is little reward potential for assuming the usual amount of investment risk. That's of course why holding/safety investments like gold and silver are up now, as opposed to stocks, and it's why the acutely understandable but ultimately silly (one might say disastrous on the macro level) notion of "investing in cash" is even a consideration amongst financial managers. None of this type of investing produces any trickle-down effect that benefits others.

Certainly holding cash might be less immediately productive for the job market, but that doesn't mean it's not beneficial to the business, the bank, and the consumer. And despite the popularity of investing in cash and gold, we all know that no one is putting all of their eggs in one basket. Less risky investments are still beneficial to us all.

Still, we can't ignore why we got here and much of the blame has to be placed at the feet of the government and its policies and failed oversight. Why then should we trust them to come up with a "temporary" middle-of-the-road solution?

Conservatives in support of the flat tax love to rail against the specter of huge masses of lazy worthless human parasites sucking the financial life out of the upstanding, productive workers. There are certainly many instances where that's the case; nonetheless that's a disgustingly broad brush with which to paint...

Who's saying anything like that? Look at the tax again because it's nothing at all like you described.
 

GG-Xtreme

You are a pirate!
Mar 12, 2008
332
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Our current economic climate has almost nothing to do with tax cuts for middle class families, and everything to do with lack of regulation by regulating bodies of government sponsored financial institutions. It wasn't helped along by the refusal of Congress between 2005-2007 to actually take care of a problem within the two largest mortgage financiers in the country that was noticed and reported on several time between those years. Their inability to take action on it guaranteed our current crisis.
But just working on the housing market isn't going to fix the rest of the economy. Tax cuts should be considered an additional measure.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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But just working on the housing market isn't going to fix the rest of the economy. Tax cuts should be considered an additional measure.
Taking care of the mortgage industry years ago would have prevented, or lessened the effect of, what we are seeing now quite significantly.
 

GG-Xtreme

You are a pirate!
Mar 12, 2008
332
0
0
Taking care of the mortgage industry years ago would have prevented, or lessened the effect of, what we are seeing now quite significantly.
That's what I'm saying. It's too late to stop bad loans, other measures must be taken.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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I agree, but so far you haven't told me anything that would actually help.
 

GG-Xtreme

You are a pirate!
Mar 12, 2008
332
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I agree, but so far you haven't told me anything that would actually help.
I honestly can't give an outright answer to that. Both ideologies seem logical, yet they contradict and expose flaws in each other. This only shows that there are too many other factors to keep track of. But I do feel that middle class tax cuts are a good initial step, and I find flaws like McCain's health care plan too glaring to overlook.