Elmur fud were you the same person that thought that Steam should open up brick and mortar stores or was that someone else?
Builds and Commit Updates
- Thread starter TWD
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Actually, Microsoft still dares to sell 32 bit versions of their PC OS. And if the OS is 32 bit, an x64 processor also only runs in 32 bit mode.
Then again, IMHO there's absolutely no reason anymore to use a 32 bit OS if your CPU is less than 5 years old. As such, and considering the potential memory requirements of next generation games, trying to squeeze everything into a 32 bit address space will be a very limiting factor that really isn't necessary.
One of the biggest factors in 32 bit NOT being abandoned earlier was because of the market slowing down, mostly due to the majority of studios switching to console led development. The consoles at the time, XB360 and PS3, were heavily restricted for RAM, and so the games were developed to rely more on disk access and swapping in and out of RAM as needed. It's only recently that PC developers have started to release 64 bit versions of games, despite the technology being there for 10 years or so, because other markets simply weren't at the same point.
Now though, we've got new consoles. Consoles with 8gb of RAM, that's 64 bit territory. Developers are going to be pushing to use RAM more now, so system requirements are going to jump up as a result, meaning that there will be more games in the future that will simply be too restricted by keeping that 32 bit barrier in place.
I'm not saying that this is the only reason, but it's something that needs to be taken into serious consideration with any such arguments. Any company that wishes to push the boundaries is going to want to work with the latest and greatest hardware, and then scale down to the most common low point. Sometimes, with the features you wish to include, setting that low point means setting certain requirements, like dropping support for some older platforms. It's a pattern that's been occurring for years in the game industry, and there's simply no good reason to stop. A stagnant industry that still tries to support everything will simply have too much holding it back. DOS support was dropped all those years ago, 3D cards became a necessity rather than a nice-to-have. Sometimes, to move on, you just need to let go of something.
32 bit support is mostly present with old computers, unlikely to game, and business machines, where software compatibility is important. Most of the target audience for games have moved on to 64 bit, though my experience testing Everquest Landmark has seen a few still on 32 bit, they're very much the minority, and didn't have hardware to match in most cases. I think the only reason this is even being noticed so much is because the market did get stagnant for so long, working with the same hardware requirements.
Now though, we've got new consoles. Consoles with 8gb of RAM, that's 64 bit territory. Developers are going to be pushing to use RAM more now, so system requirements are going to jump up as a result, meaning that there will be more games in the future that will simply be too restricted by keeping that 32 bit barrier in place.
I'm not saying that this is the only reason, but it's something that needs to be taken into serious consideration with any such arguments. Any company that wishes to push the boundaries is going to want to work with the latest and greatest hardware, and then scale down to the most common low point. Sometimes, with the features you wish to include, setting that low point means setting certain requirements, like dropping support for some older platforms. It's a pattern that's been occurring for years in the game industry, and there's simply no good reason to stop. A stagnant industry that still tries to support everything will simply have too much holding it back. DOS support was dropped all those years ago, 3D cards became a necessity rather than a nice-to-have. Sometimes, to move on, you just need to let go of something.
32 bit support is mostly present with old computers, unlikely to game, and business machines, where software compatibility is important. Most of the target audience for games have moved on to 64 bit, though my experience testing Everquest Landmark has seen a few still on 32 bit, they're very much the minority, and didn't have hardware to match in most cases. I think the only reason this is even being noticed so much is because the market did get stagnant for so long, working with the same hardware requirements.
![[GU]elmur_fud](/data/avatars/s/47/47919.jpg?1425583194){kind=avatar}
[GU]elmur_fud
I have balls of Depleted Uranium
For the tldr the thread people; At no point has this ever been about the hardware, it is completely a discussion of OSes.
No. I said they should offer options through brick and mortar modes like Gamestop to help transition legacy customers and they have.
In my case it is due to a family obligation, (I.E. cheap whiny relatives) I have to access a remote sever console via a proprietary 16bit app that does not function well anymore even under normal 32bit conditions and requires I interface with other 16bit office applications that I could upgrade (at my own expense)...
However as I stated, that is why I have 32 bit installed, I can and will run a dual boot system just as soon as I get my new video card. Why a significant portion of gamers and PC users still use 32bit is anyone's guess, I suspect it has to do with not wanting to buy a new OS. That they exist is pretty obvious to all but the oblivious and therefore unlikely for anybody in the business of making money to ignore till they dwindle quite a bit more.Also UE4 (the elemental demo) has almost identical benchmark scores (and by benchmark scores I mean FPS) on 32bit and 64bit OSes...
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Hey TWD, you guys uploaded a youtube video of gameplay to the Buf page. How about adding it to your original post?
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This isn't strictly true - Windows 7 and 8 license keys can be used to install either a 32-bit or 64-bit OS. If a machine is purchased using 32-bit, question the vendor who installed it.
If you use a system builder edition of Windows, you are restricted to the "bitness" of that edition, because the yes for those are indeed tied to whether it's 32 or 64 bit.
[GU]elmur_fud;2609541 said:
Thought so, I remembered there was a reason I don't take anything you say regarding this stuff seriously.
[GU]elmur_fud
I have balls of Depleted Uranium
[FuLLBLeeD]Oh rats, Elmur was right about that steam wallet thing, I can't take him seriously[/FuLLBLeeD]... Good for you. Intelligence gives you worry lines.
At the risk of interrupting this uhhh totally on topic discussion, here's an updated build.
http://goo.gl/GLzogl
http://goo.gl/GLzogl
[GU]elmur_fud
I have balls of Depleted Uranium
The better question would be "why shortened URL?". We're not on Twitter or other crappy pseudosocial network.
Lots of stuff has changed so far this week. Unfortunately I can't make a build as the project appears to be broken. I believe they have forgotten to check in a file. We'll put another one out as soon as possible.
If you're taking the head revision, it'll frequently be broken. I expect they have a naming convention that lets you grab the tested and approved revision.
Looks like they fixed it. I'll cut a build tonight. I'll even try 32bit, although I doubt the final game will run well without the extra ran on a 64 bit system, if it even builds at all.
https://mega.co.nz/#!XVwU3LjD!Z5BZJ19FD3t0oe6TVLQSzFzxZz8qhUe8nloDdjdfbz0
Looked up making a 32bit. Unreal Engine 4 simply doesn't support it.
Looked up making a 32bit. Unreal Engine 4 simply doesn't support it.
[GU]elmur_fud
I have balls of Depleted Uranium
I have been looking into licensing, what can be done with the engine and what can't. I hate to be contradictory but yeah Unreal engine 4 does. Example:
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2368/unreal-engine-4-elemental-tech-demo/
The download at the page above includes both.
Though perhaps you meant that the UT4 build of it doesn't?
Though the tech demo above runs fine in 32bit and the current build would as well I suspect, final product multiplayer might not.
I base this guess off the data that my Vista 32bit octacore with 8GB ram runs the demo fine but is @ 86% CPU load with 2.5GB (roughly) ram usage and 1.5 GB swap file on my SSD. Conversely the 64bit win7 machine I built for my wife that has 6 cores and is just a regular FX chip with 6GB ram ran the tech demo 52%CPU load and 3.9GB of ram used. (This was done when I snitched her video card).
That info to me indicates that my 8core processor is having to work harder to produce basically the same performance. The frame rate avg was slightly less on her PC but I attribute this to the 6 vs 8 cores and her ram is 1600 where mine is 2400 DDR3.
The performance difference is because you're having to use a swap file instead of real memory (because you can't address enough on a 32-bit machine, so it's using the swap as disk storage does not count towards memory addressing).
wat
[GU]elmur_fud;2609663 said:
wat
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[GU]elmur_fud
I have balls of Depleted Uranium
Didn't we do this song and dance already?
The 4GB limit is basically an arbitrary one imposed by MS (to what end I don't recall). That is over all also, for instance my video card has another 1GB meaning in windows opinion I have 9GB or 5 over it's 4 GB limit.
There are however workarounds to the GB limit some of which I have mentioned already. Plus I am not playing anything atm that needs more then 4. Since I needed 32bit for legacy purposes I installed that first and as I haven't needed it for anything yet I haven't bothered to install 64bit. I figured I would when I get my new video card card because I'd like to see skyrim in HD but that would probably toast my old 7950GTX.