UT3 storyline

The SP in UT3 was an insult, blasphemy etc etc to any Unreal fan. (i know, i know its not the end of the world but still )

And about Reaper, i heard he tried to get the role in GoW and got beaten by 3 others and then got the role in UT3. And that was AFTER the first and second choices suicided/joined AA respectively after reading the script.

No its true, really

In all fairness, the SP of every Unreal game that came after the original has been pretty questionable. UC2 was decent enough...

I don't think it was all bad, just terribly executed. Its not that single and storyline is impossible for this type of game - Epic just haven't found the right approach yet.

What is worse is that they can't keep any consistencies between the titles, so the story and universe is lumpy and incoherent.

I think it would be helpful if Epic did a new Single Player Unreal game (either Unreal 3 or a total remake of Unreal). In this title, they could take all the disparate elements of the previous games and put them together in a coherent well developed Universe with a proper storyline, characters and history. I think this could be a kinda of FPS RPG!! All the Alien races, worlds, corporations, technologies and characters would get a mention.

The MP of this game would be UT4!!

and no I'm not talking about UC2's gameplay

1. I would love to see the Unreal Universe tied together. As it is right now one title has little to do with the other . Except for UC2

2. I don't care about how cheesy or non-cheesy the singleplayer is. I hate that for every cut-scene you have to do 20 missions in-between to get to the next one! Although, the formula for the Unreal Tournament/Championship single-player has always been pretty flimsy. Except for UC2.

3. I think there was an opportunity here to make a singleplayer gametype that could have been the "new game mode" for UT3. No UT/UC game has singleplayer levels. Except for UC2.

4. In case you missed it, Unreal Championship 2, IMO, nailed the formula for how to set up a UT singleplayer game. If I had any say in what would go into another UT game, I would say "Look at Unreal Championship 2 and take the framework of that game, use it again for the next Unreal Tournament/Championship title."

Whaddya mean? All those games are totally unreal man.

Sjosz said:

Whaddya mean? All those games are totally unreal man.

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What, what? I'm not sure what you're saying. Yes all those games are Unreal. I'm saying that no other Unreal Tournament/Championship game does the singleplayer better than Unreal Championship 2, and that the campaign framework from UC2 should be used again.

Trynant said:

What, what? I'm not sure what you're saying. Yes all those games are Unreal. I'm saying that no other Unreal Tournament/Championship game does the singleplayer better than Unreal Championship 2, and that the campaign framework from UC2 should be used again.

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Sorry, I was feeling whimsical and decided to make an internet forum post joke... which failed
I meant that they're unreal in the dictionary meaning of the word.

Sjosz said:

Sorry, I was feeling whimsical and decided to make an internet forum post joke... which failed

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No, it wasn't you that failed in making the joke, it was Trynant that failed in understanding it.

World of difference, my friend!

Grobut said:

Actually, the other Necris chick is black, you just don't see it because her default armour has a facemask, but if you select her in the player setup menu and remove that, she's obviously black, and bald..

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You know I don't see it at all but its funny you say that because I was showing this too my mother of all people a few weeks ago and asking her if she thought it was a black character ... she thought it could possibly be but I just don't see it. And especially compared to how it was undeniable in prev versions .. black women looked like black women. Damien looks black ... Alanna doesn't ... her features (especially her eye color) is more like that of a Latin (Puerto Rican in particular ... think Rosie Perez) and I think that is what she is (like Dom is in Gears ... Epic is part of the rainbow coalition these days ... they have all kinds of nationalities not just black and white anymore ... some of the characters in the game are Japanese and Kim in gears of war is Chinese or Korean). And yes I know that some of the opponent bots are black (you can tell by their hair and arms) but they are only versions of the real Damien of Barktooth or Othello not separate personalities like in UT2Kx. A mask does not make a different character to me and this was one of the areas Epic got lazy about (but that is another thread).

gregori said:

It doesn't really matter. Epic are just responding to popular culture and Black Artists take advantage of those stereotypes all the time.

I don't know why they insist on making Malcolm a villain! I think he would be a more interesting Anti-Hero. He'd be a cool player character.

Reaper is a boring sack of **** as character but Malcolm seems like he could be actually fun!! He maybe an amoral psychopath, but in a charming fun way!

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Don't agree with that first statement at all but whatever it shows me people don't understand that rap artists don't represent ALL black popular culture. And not all black artists take advantage of these stereotypes ... are you serious about that? What about all the black Gospel singers, or writers of great literature and poetry, or the many talented actors that don't do the typical roles (In addition to some of the people I already named how about Morgan Freeman, Taye Diggs, the Rock even, the big dude from the Green Mile, Terrence Howard who was just in Iron Man)? That would be like me saying that White artists take advantage of the stereotype of being redneck retards that love country music and Nascar. Its just not true and would be a very narrow and dishonest statement on my part. As I pointed out you can't get much bigger than all the folks I named and they have an enormous amount of impact on popular culture. There are always choice and options to doing things .. why Epic went in this direction while companies like Valve steer completely clear of making blacks look like ignorant hip hop junkies who couldn't speak proper English if their life depended on it is really a mystery to me ... it reeks of a bit of prejudice or bigoted behavior tbh.

Unreal II was not that long ago and John Dalton sure was not portrayed in such a manner. Look at how how cool Malcolm is portrayed in UT2K3 and UT2k4 in the intro cinematics ... silent, deadly, all business. Also he doesn't come across this way (an urban stereotype) in UC2 ... he justs seems like a regular enthusiastic sports anchor (like someone you would see on ESPN ... not Stewart Scott though). But something strange happened when Epic moved onto the next generation of gaming and I just don't get it.

And then look at characters like the lead villian in DE's Pariah which was not that long ago either ... they didn't have him sounding like an urban joke either. And Bungie did not change their black character to some stereotype as well. I can't think of alot of black characters in shooters (which speaks to a larger issue but one beyond the scope of this thread) but the ones I have seen outside of Epic's Universe do not sound this ridiculous. Especially since we are in the future it makes even less sense to do so. I just hope Epic understands how offensive this is and stops it or at least counter balances their joke black characters with true intelligent noble black characters that can carry on a intelligent conversation. When I heard Malcolm say that thing about a Necris driveby I really wanted to punch the person who wrote that crap.

It is funny how they never even want to comment on this or explain their POV. It makes them look even more guilty in this regard. I really think Epic owes their black gamer consumers an apology but of course in their mind they did nothing inappropriate so of course you'll never hear them even speak about this subject. I am pretty interested to see how they handle the leader of the Strand and Cole in Gears 2 ... but tbh this is Epic so I am not holding my breath when it comes to this particular issue.

Anuban, seriously, would you be complaining if Malcolm's character had been replaced with some scraggly white hillbilly? I love how some folks wanna see discrimination where there isn't any. You wanna jump on the discrimination bandwagon, how about going after the GTA series?

Crotale said:

Anuban, seriously, would you be complaining if Malcolm's character had been replaced with some scraggly white hillbilly? I love how some folks wanna see discrimination where there isn't any. You wanna jump on the discrimination bandwagon, how about going after the GTA series?

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Oh man there is definitely some form of discrimination going on here (maybe its minor to you but when there is already a dearth of good black characters in the gaming world and particularly shooters these are legitimate questions when all of Epic's black characters act the same way ... Hoffman would have been a great candidate for a black character, gruff and no nonsense like the Sarge from Aliens the movie or like the leader of the special unit in the first Resident Evil movie) and I already said who I would have to see Malcolm act more like ... HIMSELF from past Unreal games. Seriously ... did you even read what I said?

And about GTA ... I did make a lot of noise about San Andreas and I refused to buy it. Now the new version is fair. It shows a lot more variety in its characters of color than Epic has done so far this new generation ... and that is what I am talking about ... again I pointed that out in my post. Even the hardest friend Niko has (Dwayne) doesn't sound as ridiculous as Malcolm, Othello, and sometimes Cole ... and before some says something about Cole being a former Smashball player let me just remind you that there are plenty of former and current black athletes who sound nothing like the Rza for example. But anyway I made my points and it really only came up because someone did ask why the black characters in Epic's games have this feature.

I'll state it simply- The problem most people had with the single player was that it doesn't have anything to do with a tournament- and the kooky tech explanations of why we're playing capture the flag and such to win a war (ok only CTF truly doesn't make sense) (responding to original topic)

The necris attacked my colony during the opening cinematic and now I'm very angry ! ,,lol

Ahhh FFS, I don't have patience to read through all that. A LOT of Black artists take advantage and play up to the stereotype - its called gansta rap. If Epic does it too, who gives a ****. Its just a bit of harmless fun. They've one jive talking black character, but in the same game they've plenty other who aren't!

Infact a lot of black guys who are friends and workmates emulate that stereotype, in the way the speak and the expression they use!! It doesn't prove Epic are some horrible Xenophobic monsters, just responding to popular culture! Watch Prison Break!

If there is any fault with Malcolm, Its that they made him a baddie when he could be much more fun as an anti-hero player character! Reaper is as dull as ****.

You really don't get it and you are starting to offend me so I am just going to drop this conversation. If you can't be bothered to read what I have said then I can't even take you seriously and I definitely don't feel like I have an intelligent conversation with you about a delicate topic like this. I am really appalled by you using ONE genre to define a whole race of people. It is extremely insulting. There are thousands more Black Artists than just "gangsta" rappers and your narrow viewpoint is really disturbing. You can't even answer the questions I posed. You just want to give Epic a pass ... on this. Remember what happened when America gave Hitler a pass and it came back to haunt them. Racism/Prejudice can lead to Genocide as we have seen throughout history and are two things that should never be tolerated no matter how lighthearted it may appear. And again why is it only Epic is doing this when it comes to shooters with supposedly realistic characters ... None of the other big shops are doing this ... NOT ONE. Valve, Crytek, id, Activision, DE, etc. And if the company does not know who to use blacks in a positive way in their story they leave them out and I would rather them do that than marginalize us as Epic does. Anyway might as well move on as this discussion is not going to amount to anything positive in this forum. I have to look at my signature and remember what it says and act accordingly so I am not accused of hypocrisy.

Anuban said:

You really don't get it and you are starting to offend me so I am just going to drop this conversation. If you can't be bothered to read what I have said then I can't even take you seriously and I definitely don't feel like I have an intelligent conversation with you about a delicate topic like this. I am really appalled by you using ONE genre to define a whole race of people. It is extremely insulting. There are thousands more Black Artists than just "gangsta" rappers and your narrow viewpoint is really disturbing. You can't even answer the questions I posed. You just want to give Epic a pass ... on this. Remember what happened when America gave Hitler a pass and it came back to haunt them. Racism/Prejudice can lead to Genocide as we have seen throughout history and are two things that should never be tolerated no matter how lighthearted it may appear. And again why is it only Epic is doing this when it comes to shooters with supposedly realistic characters ... None of the other big shops are doing this ... NOT ONE. Valve, Crytek, id, Activision, DE, etc. And if the company does not know who to use blacks in a positive way in their story they leave them out and I would rather them do that than marginalize us as Epic does. Anyway might as well move on as this discussion is not going to amount to anything positive in this forum. I have to look at my signature and remember what it says and act accordingly so I am not accused of hypocrisy.

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Oh FFS please get a life! I didn't define any one race by a genre, just pointed out that it a part of popular culture. Its not some Epic conspiracy, they're just reflecting that popular culture. My mind is not 'narrow' but the media and popular culture tend to be a wide variety of narrow stereotypes. That not my fault.

I'm sure UTIII and one jive talking black character will not lead to genocide. Jesus, no one even plays this game anymore.


PS. There is a giant wasp in my living room.

Anuban said:

You really don't get it and you are starting to offend me so I am just going to drop this conversation. If you can't be bothered to read what I have said then I can't even take you seriously and I definitely don't feel like I have an intelligent conversation with you about a delicate topic like this. I am really appalled by you using ONE genre to define a whole race of people. It is extremely insulting. There are thousands more Black Artists than just "gangsta" rappers and your narrow viewpoint is really disturbing. You can't even answer the questions I posed. You just want to give Epic a pass ... on this. Remember what happened when America gave Hitler a pass and it came back to haunt them. Racism/Prejudice can lead to Genocide as we have seen throughout history and are two things that should never be tolerated no matter how lighthearted it may appear. And again why is it only Epic is doing this when it comes to shooters with supposedly realistic characters ... None of the other big shops are doing this ... NOT ONE. Valve, Crytek, id, Activision, DE, etc. And if the company does not know who to use blacks in a positive way in their story they leave them out and I would rather them do that than marginalize us as Epic does. Anyway might as well move on as this discussion is not going to amount to anything positive in this forum. I have to look at my signature and remember what it says and act accordingly so I am not accused of hypocrisy.

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Anuban, don't bother. gregori doesn't finish reading posts. Just read this one.

Gregori said:

I don't have patience to read through all that.

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When you try to reason with him and ask questions, he changes the topic and throws in "FFS" to sound cool.

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Back to topic.

I'd have to agree with you, Anuban. Malcolm fits the stereotypical role of a black guy... in fact, all the characters in UT3 are complete stereotypes. Jester (female) wearing body armor... Well "obviously" her breasts have to jut out! Not very protective if you ask me.

You have your typical biblical character, Bishop. Doom (movie) had one. Crysis had one (Aztec). Prey had one (grandfather).

Othello has to be all muscley and buff, because "obviously" all black men are obsessed with muscle and leaving their rich parents and being all cool. In the real world, it's all about being "gangsta", which in UT3 universe is called running around with a flak cannon saying "Hell ya! 'Dis iz my kind o' figh'!"

Well I've only so much patience for boring walls of text that rant and rave about minor insignificant stuff

You had any idea how silly and ott you're being about this..... o wait, you don't!!

I thought this was going to be a thread about UT3's story (or lack thereof), not Epic are racist nazi planning a holocaust.

1. He wasn't ranting, he was thoroughly explaining his point of view and stating what I would think are rather clear cut facts and not opinions. The characters ARE stereotyped.
2. "minor insignificant stuff"?
3. "rave"?