War on brats

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It's about goddamn time!!!!

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A23-387307.htm

CHICAGO -- Bridget Dehl shushed her 21-month-old son Gavin, then clapped a hand over his mouth to squelch his tiny screams amid the Sunday brunch bustle. When Gavin kept yelping "yeah, yeah, yeah," Dehl quickly whisked him from his highchair and out the door.

Right past the sign warning the cafe's customers that "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices when coming to A Taste of Heaven," and right into a nasty spat roiling the stroller set in Chicago's changing Andersonville neighborhood.

The owner of A Taste of Heaven, Dan McCauley, said he posted the sign -- at child level, with playful handprints -- in the hope of quieting his tin-ceilinged cafe, where toddlers have been known to sprawl between tables and hurl themselves at display cases for sport.

But many neighborhood mothers took umbrage at the implied criticism of how they handle their children. Soon, whispers of a boycott passed among the playgroups in this North Side hamlet, once an outpost of edgy artists and hip gay couples but now a hot real estate market for young professional families shunning the suburbs.

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two. "I'd love for him to be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

McCauley, 44, said the protesting parents are "former cheerleaders and beauty queens" who "have a very strong sense of entitlement." In an open letter to the community, he warned of an "epidemic" of anti-social behavior.

"Part of parenting skills is teaching kids they behave differently in a restaurant than they do on the playground," McCauley said. "If you send out positive energy, positive energy returns to you. If you send out energy that says I'm the only one that matters, it's going to be a pretty chaotic world."

And so simmers another skirmish between the childless and the child-centered, a culture clash increasingly common in restaurants and other public spaces as a new generation of busy, older, well-off parents ferry little ones with them.

• An online petition urging child-free sections in North Carolina restaurants drew hundreds of signers, including Janelle Funk, who wrote, "Whenever a hostess asks me 'smoking or nonsmoking?' I respond, 'No kids!' "

• At Mendo Bistro in Fort Bragg, Calif., the owners declare "Well-behaved children and parents welcome" to try to stop unmonitored youngsters from tap-dancing on the 100-year-old wood floors.

• Menus at Zumbro Cafe in Minneapolis say: "We love children, especially when they're tucked into chairs and behaving," which Barbara Daenzer said she read as an invitation to cease her weekly breakfast visits when her son was born.

• Even at the Full Moon in Cambridge, Mass., a cafe created for families, there are rules about inside voices and a "No lifeguard on duty" sign to remind parents to take responsibility. "You run the risk when you start monitoring behavior," said the Full Moon's owner, Sarah Wheaton. "You can say no cell phones to people, but you can't say your father speaks too loudly, he has to keep his voice down. And you can't really say your toddler is too loud when she's eating."

Here in Chicago, parents have denounced Toast, a popular Lincoln Park breakfast spot, as unwelcoming since a note about using inside voices appeared on the menu six months ago.

The owner of John's Place established a separate "family-friendly" room a year ago, only to face parental threats of lawsuits.

When a retail clerk in Andersonville asked a woman to stop breast-feeding last spring, "the neighborhood set him straight real fast," said Mary Ann Smith, the area's alderwoman.

Things got ugly

After a dozen years at one site, McCauley moved A Taste of Heaven six blocks away in May 2004, to a busy corner on Clark Street. The clientele is whiter, wealthier and louder, he said. Teachers and writers seeking afternoon refuge were drowned out not just by children running amok but also by oblivious cell phone chatterers.

Children were climbing the cafe's poles. A couple were blithely reading the newspaper while their daughter lay on the floor blocking the line for coffee. When the family whose children were running across the room to flail themselves against the display cases left after his admonishment, McCauley recalled, the restaurant erupted in applause.

So he put up the sign. Then things really got ugly.

"The looks I would get when I went in there made me so nervous that I would try to buy the food as fast as I could and get out," said Laura Brauer, 40, who has stopped visiting Taste with her two kids.

"I think that the mothers who allow their kids to run around and scream, that's wrong, but kids scream and there is nothing you can do about it. What are we supposed to do, not enjoy ourselves at a cafe?"

Miller said that one day when her son, then 4 months old, was fussing, a staff member rolled her eyes and announced for all to hear, "We've got a screamer!"

Kim Cavitt recalled having coffee and a cookie one afternoon with her boisterous 2-year-old when "someone came over and said you just need to keep her quiet or you need to leave."

"We left, and we haven't been back since," Cavitt said. "You go to a coffee shop or a bakery for a rest, to relax, and that you would have to worry the whole time about your child doing something that children do -- really what they're saying is they don't welcome children, they want the child to behave like an adult."

Why suffer such scorn, the mothers said, when clerks at the Swedish Bakery, a neighborhood institution, offer children -- calm or crying -- free cookies? Why confront such criticism when the recently opened Sweet Occasions, a five-minute walk down Clark Street, designed the bathroom aisle to accommodate double strollers and offers a child-size ice cream cone for $1.50? (At A Taste of Heaven, the smallest costs $3.75.)

"It's his business; he has the right to put whatever sign he wants on the door," Miller said. "And people have the right to respond to that sign however they want."

Owner won't back down

McCauley said he had received kudos from several restaurant owners in the area, though none had followed his lead. He has certainly lost customers because of the sign, but some parents say the offense is outweighed by their addiction to the scones, and others embrace the effort at etiquette.

"The litmus test for me is if they have high chairs or not," said Dehl, the woman who scooped her screaming son from his seat during brunch, as she waited out his restlessness on a sidewalk bench. "The fact that they had one high chair, and the fact that he's the only child in the restaurant is an indication that it's an adult place, and if he's going to do his toddler thing we should take him out and let him run around."

McCauley said he would rather go out of business than back down. He likens this one small step toward good manners to his personal effort to decrease pollution by only hiring employees who live close enough to walk to work.

"I can't change the situation in Iraq; I can't change the situation in New Orleans," he said. "But I can change this little corner of the world."
 

togmkn

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Jun 9, 2004
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My parents never took me to a restaurant, sporting event, mall, etc. until I was old enough, and if they did, they'd leave when I started to make noise. When parents say, "You try controlling three kids in a restaurant," that's stupid. The "you" they speak of would not have three kids in the first place, and if they did, they wouldn't take them to a restaurant knowing that their volume would be difficult to control. When it's one, it's easy.
 
But many neighborhood mothers took umbrage at the implied criticism of how they handle their children. Soon, whispers of a boycott passed among the playgroups in this North Side hamlet, once an outpost of edgy artists and hip gay couples but now a hot real estate market for young professional families shunning the suburbs.

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two. "I'd love for him to be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

Well excuuuuuuuuuse me princess.
 

anaemic

she touch your penis?
Jan 7, 2002
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too fucking right, you have kids? good for you.
keep them the fuck away from me assholes, nothing pisses me off like cunts who feel they're responsable enough to have kids but not enough to sacrifice going to their favorite restaurant or missing a concert or trans-continental fight.
 
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togmkn

tog-em-kay-en
Jun 9, 2004
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They are soo stereotypical soccer moms. I bet...what, half? a fourth to be on the safe side...of them tied yellow ribbons all over major streets. (Then left them for others to take down.) Stereotypical soccer moms. Not to mention they need those Suburbans to haul all those kids, with their whiney monotonous screeching voices echoing in the spacious interior cavern of the tan Suburban, muffled only by McDonalds wrappers littering the floor. Awwww...little angels. Go to Hell. At least you'll be away from your kids. ;)
 
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Peavey

Rattus Norvegicus
Jul 17, 2001
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Man, seriously. I'm sick and ****ing tired of people going "See how hard it is for YOU to have 3 kids and raise them perfectly!"

I mean, jesus, you're bound to screw up sometimes but god damn, I just want to say, "See how much easier it is for YOU to shut your ****ing kids up when you're as smart as me, you dumb bitch. If you can't handle your kids then you shouldn't have been a mother. Wow, what a deep bond you and your genius husband must have. c*nt."

I know I have no room to speak since I don't have kids but jesus, at least take them some other place. It's like taking a whiny baby to a movie theater -- You don't do it, you GET A BABYSITTER.
 
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NiftyBoy

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Mar 29, 2001
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I have a problem with that Swedish bakery giving noisy kids cookies to shut them up. You don't stop bad behavior by rewarding it.

And obviously Ms.Princess is being a bit melodramatic because the restaurant owner doesn't expect her to keep her kids quiet every minute of the day, only the fourty minutes or so they're in his restaurant.

I'm glad to see some places doing this. Some movie theaters around here have day-cares for the young kids, but some still insist on bringing in their 3-month old into a movie theater so we get screaming and crying. Honestly, who brings their infant to see Corpse Bride? I'd've been scared and confused at that age :p
 

JonAzz

UA Mapper
Aug 1, 2003
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ever been to sesame place? :| omg you'll want to go on a shooting spree, killing all the kids and the parents too. bunch of fecking **** heads. yay i love the general public :guninmouth:
 

Defeat

GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO
Apr 2, 2005
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>As my siblings and I were growing up we were told not to yell and to always behave. If we were in a resturant and we were too loud my parents would just leave or take us outside until we stopped. We would get punished for doing things we weren't supposed to do and we were always watched to make sure that we weren't doing any thing stupid like running into display cases for fun(WTF!?!?) I agree that too many parents are n00bs these days.
 

missPoopShoot

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Jul 13, 2003
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Cat Fuzz said:
You people talking all this crap that don't have kids don't even have a ****ing clue. STFU.

It's not about having kids yourself, it's about being affected by them. You go into a restaurant/cafe to relax and I can't relax with a f*cking screaming child in there.

One of the women said "You go to a coffee shop or a bakery for a rest, to relax, and that you would have to worry the whole time about your child doing something that children do -- really what they're saying is they don't welcome children, they want the child to behave like an adult."

Yes, my dear, that's exactly what they're saying. If your child can't behave with some decorum for 45 minutes while you have your coffee, you're not welcome. You go in there to relax, so does everyone else. You might find it easy to relax while your child is screaming, but people without kids don't.

It's about standards. I was in a smoking cafe in Archway (north London for those who don't know) and a group of women walked in. One asked me if I could blow my smoke away from them as one of the women was pregnant. I felt like saying, "there's a non-smoking cafe across the road, just go there pwwwwinceess", but I'm not an a*s, so I didn't - I just blew my smoke the other way.

The point is, if someone creates a restaurant for well-behaved children and adults, then that is who should go there.

Mind you, I'm guessing your post was just a troll, or at least I hope it was... ;)
 

Rukee

Coffee overclocks the overclocker!!
May 15, 2001
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what happened to the good ole days like when I was growing up when if your kid was misbehaving you`d just give them a quick back hand and nip it in the bud right there. Or if the cops brought you home they actually waited for the beating to start before they left. Awwe, those were the days....non of this time out crap.
 

El JuaKo

Fear the Mariachi
Dec 13, 2003
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you know how society says you traumatize children and that you just have to leave them be, not when im a dad i wont, when he does something rite he will get praised as hell if he does something wrong hell get a punishment (not physical), and if he does it again then hell kiss the back of my hand
 

GotBeer?

The nozzle is now calibrating
Mar 10, 2004
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The winkey smiley has me wondering if Rukee is being serious, but I agree with him anyway. The best way to get a child to stop charging display cases (wtf?) and climbing furniture is a quick smack on the ass. My Mother's favorite threat was, "Do you want to go out to the car?" But you can't do that in public anymore because someone's going to call the cops because apparently a single whack is abuse nowadays. Damned touchy-feely libs, and probably the same ones complaining about the kids' behavior in the first place. (See, I can generalize too!)

As for the 'kids are loud and their voices bother my delicate ears' crap, I've been to plenty of restaurants and coffee shops where the 'adults' were the problem. Just 2wks ago I took my 8month old daughter into a coffee shop while my truck was being worked on. She was fine, it was the 5 20-ish 'adults' seated around a 2ft wide table speaking at a volume suitable for an across-the-room conversation that were drawing the disgusted looks from other patrons. And then there are the cell phone users.
JonAzz said:
ever been to sesame place? :| omg you'll want to go on a shooting spree, killing all the kids and the parents too. bunch of fecking **** heads. yay i love the general public :guninmouth:
I'm guessing Sesame Place is either a Chinese restaraunt or a child-oriented place like Chuck E Cheese (I typed ShowBiz Pizza originally. God I'm old). If it is child-oriented, wtf are you doing there and why are you complaining? If it's not, well then you have a reason to bitch. Go ahead on that little shooting spree. Have fun. :tup: