Steve Polge about UT3 Expansion Pack

Yeah I just dont get why Epic felt the need to explain respawning in a warlike scenario, explaining it away in a tourney environment like in UC2 made alot more sense to me. (Infact CTF in a war makes no sense what so ever anyways )

Are these vehicles in GoW2 usable? in MP like horde also?

I concur though skaarj are pretty wicked and have the whole melee thing goin as well

MonsOlympus said:

Yeah I just dont get why Epic felt the need to explain respawning in a warlike scenario, explaining it away in a tourney environment like in UC2 made alot more sense to me. (Infact CTF in a war makes no sense what so ever anyways )

I concur though skaarj are pretty wicked and have the whole melee thing goin as well

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Yeap. It was always a tournament, they could explain flags as FLaGs but don't make it in a real war.
And yes, Skaarj are really cool, in Unreal II they can even reflect your shots with their Razik And Heavy ones fire two types of bolts!

MonsOlympus said:

Yeah I just dont get why Epic felt the need to explain respawning in a warlike scenario, explaining it away in a tourney environment like in UC2 made alot more sense to me. (Infact CTF in a war makes no sense what so ever anyways )

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Everything in UT makes sense in a tourney scenario, and not a war, from respawners, to CTF, to weapon selection. And the one gametype that might actually make sense (assault) was left out! I blame GoW's success and Doc Capps for the nonsensical shift in directions.

Bishop gantry said:

Altroughout Unreal1 the Krall always appeared to be fairly intelligent while in UT3 they appeares to have been lobotomized by a sledgehammer...

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Actually they were more dumb and really annoying in U1. They completely lacked a menacing appearance.

GreatEmerald@: they used the old Minotaur model for the UT3 Krall. Minotaurs were super-old enemies such as the Dragon, who later became the Krall.

UBerserker said:

Actually they were more dumb and really annoying in U1. They completely lacked a menacing appearance.

GreatEmerald@: they used the old Minotaur model for the UT3 Krall. Minotaurs were super-old enemies such as the Dragon, who later became the Krall.

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You are thinking about Brutes? Cuz they where dumb as a bag of bricks

Nope, the Krall. They were annoying pushovers who talked always about "we're tired about the Skaarj", "we'll do a rebellion", etc. Lame, even the Brutes were overall better. UT3's Krall are the definition of badass.

Now if they used the black skins from the Unreal Beta, the lack of a menacing aspect was already fixed. Of course, this is an opinion of mine after playing Unreal throughout 10 years non-stop.

Yea, Krall were very minor enemies, anyone could dodge off their bolts, and they're too slow to actually reach you from melee distance. It's just strange that they introduced the Krall only that late in Unreal. IIRC they were closer to the start in the Beta.
Hmm, care to post some images?

Brutes are stupid as well, they were genetically engineered to be nothing more than war machines, but they still pack more damage than the Krall. Well, at least Krall could play dice. Too bad they didn't make a Krall Dice minigame, just like Arcomage was in Might and Magic VII.

GreatEmerald said:

IIRC they were closer to the start in the Beta.
Hmm, care to post some images?

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In the Beta, they appeared in Temple of Vandora. An image of them is found near the beginning of this page: http://www.unrealsp.org/gameguide/beta/maps/10-templeofvandora.html

MonsOlympus said:

...Its obvious Epic got DM, CTF down pretty well but for me warfare could have been more or even there could have been modes which play on warfare but arnt exactly the same. We see alittle asymmetry come through already but some of that wont always play well in a PvP scenario, maps like this could be flagged as SP/Coop only and you can only play those during the campaign or when you select invasion/assault type modes.

Something like that anyways I could dribble on about it but I wont

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I have thought for a long time that Invasion in the sp 'campaign' would have been a really good move, making it a good deal less boring. Though I never considered the idea of putting it in an ons/warfare scenario and Imo that is a great idea. As you say some customised maps and you have what could be a fun gametype/s.

e.g. Lay siege to/Defend the base or Hold onto as many nodes (or strategic positions) for as long as possible while slowly being pushed back across the map by waves of increasingly tough Krall and Necris combinations...

[which would have given the campaign and instant action some gameplay that actually fit the games theme.]

When can we expect the "complete" beta, alpha of this demo expansion pack so that we can try it out? Also, will this expansion pack be a port from a console version?

I really cant wait for this.

GreatEmerald said:

Yea, Krall were very minor enemies, anyone could dodge off their bolts, and they're too slow to actually reach you from melee distance. It's just strange that they introduced the Krall only that late in Unreal. IIRC they were closer to the start in the Beta.
Hmm, care to post some images?

Brutes are stupid as well, they were genetically engineered to be nothing more than war machines, but they still pack more damage than the Krall. Well, at least Krall could play dice. Too bad they didn't make a Krall Dice minigame, just like Arcomage was in Might and Magic VII.

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Well they had faster bolts originally and were tougher enemies...........in the final version you can beat them easily.....

And about the content from console version, I would like to see it in PC as well...

Severin said:

I have thought for a long time that Invasion ... the idea of putting it in an ons/warfare scenario and Imo that is a great idea.

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I've played around with converting ONS maps to Fraghouse Invasion and, sad to say, it doesn't really work. The maps are too big for randomly spawning monsters. For any reasonable number of monsters, you end up having to partition off large areas of the map to keep the monsters reasonably close to the players.

There is no concept of a "front" or co-operative manoeuvres in basic Invasion and so significant code changes would probably be required to make that work (including porting an Epic version of Invasion to UT3+).

I assume that new models would also be required because, with the best will in the world, even the enhanced versions of the Unreal/UT are starting to look a little long in the tooth.

UBerserker said:

Nope, the Krall. They were annoying pushovers who talked always about "we're tired about the Skaarj", "we'll do a rebellion", etc. Lame, even the Brutes were overall better. UT3's Krall are the definition of badass.

Now if they used the black skins from the Unreal Beta, the lack of a menacing aspect was already fixed. Of course, this is an opinion of mine after playing Unreal throughout 10 years non-stop.

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But why should the Krall be badass, why should they be overhauled to such a degree they are no longer reqognizable as Krall anymore?

They werent portrayed asss sssnarling, growling sssavages with a lisssp in Unreal.

IronMonkey :What I'm suggesting and think MonsOlympus is as well. Is that instead of having lots of monsters use what is in the game already. i.e Krall & Necris except they can use weapons & vehicles in tougher and tougher combinations.

I get your points about the maps and the AI and agree that they would need to be custom built for the game type to work well. Maybe a string of set piece action points (in the style of assault) rather than the more free flowing open ons/warfare maps.

But don't forget team-coloured Skaarj as well
http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/Image:HeavySkaarj.PNG
http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/Image:U2_RedSkaarj.PNG
With a bit of retexturing, they could do, and they fit to the heavily-armoured theme of UT3

Bishop gantry said:

But why should the Krall be badass, why should they be overhauled to such a degree they are no longer reqognizable as Krall anymore?

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The design of the Skaarj changed throughout the games (and honestly, in a bad way), and the same happened to the Krall. But I like the new Krall

I hope Epic makes the decision to add more announcer voices, I find it odd that not only did they ship the game with one announcer voice, but it is a generic female announcer rather than the male announcer that is associated with UT.

Basically a new UI/GUI for PC (includes a full custom crosshair display panel) along with new announcer voices, and improved netcode, which is what pretty much came with UT2K3 and UT2K4, oh yeah, and a built in IRC client. That's all I care for the expansion to have, this is what I expected UT3 to ship with when I bought it in the first place (although the beta demo completely lacked these features before release).

Severin said:

IronMonkey :What I'm suggesting and think MonsOlympus is as well. Is that instead of having lots of monsters use what is in the game already. i.e Krall & Necris except they can use weapons & vehicles in tougher and tougher combinations.

I get your points about the maps and the AI and agree that they would need to be custom built for the game type to work well. Maybe a string of set piece action points (in the style of assault) rather than the more free flowing open ons/warfare maps.

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Yeah Im not suggesting random spawning monsters at all, Im talking more about alittle linear set invasion pieces much like assault in 2k4.

Warfare is actually alittle smaller scale to 2k4's Ons as it is! There certainly are some larger maps but there is some smaller scale ones as well. As I was talking with asymmetry thats map can be as you say hold onto a base etc, which warfare kinda does, some are more symmetrical PvP type.

With that the monsters could come in, in waves from certain set points not just randomly around the map. Assign them to squads much like the proper botAI and actually have them try to "invade" a base, for an assault on a base you could use guard paths that they dont deviate from like the tourney bots. Much more like a SP game but with Coop support.

Squads could be outfitted randomly based on the wave, for eg if you have defensive turrets you might get an avril squad come in while another squad is keepin your infantry busy. The whole thing needs to be alittle more strategic, invasion is certainly kewl but being huddled in a collision glitch collecting XP is a major flaw for RPG inv one I think a revision like this could fix

Sammael said:

Everything in UT makes sense in a tourney scenario, and not a war, from respawners, to CTF, to weapon selection. And the one gametype that might actually make sense (assault) was left out! I blame GoW's success and Doc Capps for the nonsensical shift in directions.

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Yeah I spose it does but that doesnt mean there isnt room for more in UT especially in regards to a SP campaign. It could be say flashbacks from a tourney veteran involved in a war, so you have an excuse to have both acts in there both the tourney ladder and war bit.

The re-enactments were a good idea (kinda like gladiator) and could still be part of the tourney, put in the SP campaign maps that work in there much like how warfare works currently or assault.

Anyways just some more thoughts

hey the ut3 krall are cool. but they aren't really krall either.

I would like them a whole lot more if they were named differently. Much like i would like ut3 a whole lot more if it wasn't named ut3.