UE1 - UT UED 2- Brush Limit?

The Good Doctor F · Jan 23, 2011

First of all, hi. I've been doing mapping for Source Engine games for the last two years, some mapping design for Crysis and recently have decided to give unreal a shot.
However, none of the default static meshes in UT3 have inspired me to do anything, so I'm mapping for Unreal Tournament (transitioning from using BSP details to meshes is harder then I thought)

So anyways, I'm working on part of my first map for unreal tournament just to get my feet wet. It takes place on top of and inside of a sky scraper. I just started working on an office complex after finishing the basics of the outside. Heres a quick picture of one of the cubicles.

Now multiply that by... Well... Alot :lol:

Now when I try to rebuild the geometry, it crashes on me. Judging by the error message that pops up, I'm assuming its a problem with the number of brushes I'm using. Also, my map file is 2.4mb (most other default maps I've seen are around 1.8mb or 900kb) I have a couple of custom 2d extruded brushes that I've used for things like computers and other details, could those things have brought the map over the edge?

tl;dr version

What is the maximum number of brushes a map can handle?
Also, some tips for optimizing would be nice. It seems things work MUCH differently in the ways of performance than Source

If you need more pics of the rest of the map, I can easily provide them. And thanks in advance for the help

Metalfist · Jan 23, 2011

you should combine the brushes and put it in one brush:

- make a big room and place your brushes in it for (example that chair and dont place it on the ground)
- build a box so it totally fills over the brush (chair)
- intersect it and the red building brush will have the shape of that form (it's 1 brush now)
- add or use the "add special brush"

(I would use "add special brush" and make it a semi-solid)
Hourences explains it quite good --> have a look here: Tutorial - semi-solids
so you could make that desk and the chair semi-solid (they are lighter for the engine/don't cut in bsp), beware tho if you don't do it correct they will error and you can walk right through them. Semi-solid should be used as decoration.

And I don't think unrealed likes it that much if u add very many little detail decoration in it :/

Also if you have some building problems try to switch your viewport to a grid for so you don't see the actual map while building.

Here is a list of tutorials
http://www.oldunreal.com/editing.html

In short: Combine the brushes to 1 to reduce brush count and use semi-solids!

The Good Doctor F · Jan 23, 2011

I'm having some trouble intersecting the builder brush with the chairs. But I'll figure it out. Thanks for the help man, and thanks for the links as well!

And I always did wonder what semi solids did...

The Good Doctor F · Jan 23, 2011

Ah, got the intersecting to work, and now it all comes out as one brush

Now for the fun part of replacing all of the chairs, computers and whatnot in the room with optimized geometry! Hoah!

The Good Doctor F · Jan 23, 2011

Sorry for the triple post, but for anyone whos tuning in, this has already increased my build time by a whole minute. So yea, <3 Semi solids <3

Metalfist · Jan 23, 2011

btw while building, rebuilding, rebuilding etc. the reach specs will increase and you can fix that by selecting a brush and click in the the popup menu "Select all Brushes" and then order -> last and if you have any movers in your map then select all movers and say order -> last. Reach specs can increase your rebuildall time pretty much.

Diskiller · Aug 12, 2011

ued 2 trick

in ued 2 you could convert a bsp brush to static mesh I don't know if you can in ued 3 yet i haven't tried it

PS. Works best with addition brushes in ued 2

try this

1. select all the addition bsp you want to make the static mesh
2. right click and select Convert

2 options popup then a, To static mesh b, To brush

hit To Static Mesh and its done

then you will have to make a new package for the static meshes because you will have to add collision and bounding

if i have to make a hi-poly staircase for a map i tend to convert to static mesh once its done all in addition

best way to do it all is to have a builder room somewhere in your level with temp lighting and temp materials big enough that when you start building your addition brushes you have room to move around them so you can see the final look

gopostal · Aug 12, 2011

One things bears remembering: there is an upper limit to what you can do. The engine you are using is from 1997 and although it still amazes me what you can get away with it's best to try to simplify. Cut out stuff where you can to keep the map BSP as low as possible. For instance on your desks you could reduce the count by 1/5 or more by making them simpler and removing the side wings of the desk. The overall effect is intact, you see cubicles, a desk, chairs. but you just saved a bunch of BSP because there are so many.
Get used to using the BSP cuts view too. That will let you know when trouble is coming. When it starts to look like a color salad you aren't far from getting rebuild errors.

Dozey · Aug 12, 2011

Diskiller said:
in ued 2 you could convert a bsp brush to static mesh I don't know if you can in ued 3 yet i haven't tried it

UED 2 is a build in version of Unreal Tournament 99 editor and 227a,b,c,d,f patch for Unreal 1. You've mistaken - in Unreal Editor 3 (Unreal 2, Ut2k4) of course you can convert brush to static mesh, by right button of mouse and select convert? hardware brush/static mesh. In Unreal Engine 1 without patch 227g/h you won't be able to do this.

Or Ive mistaken a lot of upgrades for classic UT99. Then I would request for link to it.

EDIT:

Altrough, our new member of BU forum - make one glued (complex) brush and give it semi-solid. Using lot of brushes SOLID and sticking to other brushes may cause a lot of errors.

This is what I am saying about - example: picture showing fragment of my map:

Wormbo · Aug 12, 2011

Remember, you can always use MeshMaker to convert complex brushes to mesh actors. Of course that will limit you to cylindric (or no) collision. But then again, office chairs don't really need complex collision for players. If really necessary you can put several blocking actors (e.g. BlockAll) to make collision more precise.

Dozey · Aug 12, 2011

Wormbo said:
Remember, you can always use MeshMaker to convert complex brushes to mesh actors. Of course that will limit you to cylindric (or no) collision. But then again, office chairs don't really need complex collision for players. If really necessary you can put several blocking actors (e.g. BlockAll) to make collision more precise.

100% true. I've saw the chair, crane, tube lights meshes in Xidia Gold. They were brushes converted into decorations.

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UE1 - UT UED 2- Brush Limit?

The Good Doctor F

Detailed BSP Recoveree

Metalfist

New Member

The Good Doctor F

Detailed BSP Recoveree

The Good Doctor F

Detailed BSP Recoveree

The Good Doctor F

Detailed BSP Recoveree

Metalfist

New Member

Diskiller

New Member

gopostal

Active Member

Dozey

The Cleaner of Sunspire, Mapper

Wormbo

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Dozey

The Cleaner of Sunspire, Mapper