Rogue's Second Political Poll- Ah, the stupidity of school...

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Are schools teaching children to accept fascism?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • Hell Yes!

    Votes: 11 45.8%
  • I claim to be a liberal but instead support suppression of human rights and indoctrination of childr

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • Total voters
    24

Sebu_NZ

Kalashnikov's Personal Pimp!
Dec 25, 2000
1,760
0
0
New Zealand
www.muttonbone.com
Wow that means im the 100th

Anyhoo, communism was not entire responsible for raping Russia

The fact that those parindo bastards spend every last penny on the military says alot.

As the saying goes:

Either buy butter or guns


America has the luxery for both, but Russia has never been a huge economic power (one day baby!!! :)) and could only get guns.
 
Afterall

We all know that you can't eat bullets, tanks or missiles :D

Seems Russia and (currently) North Korea are being taught this harsh lesson.

As for Rogue Leader, yes, I think the best thing you could do now is show us the paper. I will try to asses as fairly as I can, and overall the forum will decide whether the grade it got was warranted.
 

RogueLeader

Tama-chan says, "aurf aurf aurf!"
Oct 19, 2000
5,314
0
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Indiana. Kill me please.
Yes but it seems as if Stalin was more of a dictator than a true communist.
Seems you put those words in your mouth, Jotun, not me. You admit it yourself, he wasn't a communist he was a dictator. The two are mutually exclusive. Communism is democratic (look at the quote in my sig if you don't believe me).

Since you seem to think capitalism has thrived, please explain to me how half the world going hungry is called thriving. Unfortunatly I'm ignorant as to how the suffering of billions is a good thing. The reason no communist governments exist is the U.S. killed all the legitmately communist movements (fearing a communist movement in America that would remove the status of the plutocrats in the government that comes with being wealthy in a capitalist society) and left the dictatorships alive. Most communist movements in this century were Leninist-Stalinist dictatorships, not Marxist democracies. Russia was the first dictatorship that tried to fool its working class into supporting it by using the name communist. The reason other "communist" nations did the same is because they were also started by the Russians, and not for the good of the people, but to secure Soviet security by creating buffer zones around Russia. If you want to look at the economic viability of Capitalism, just check out the U.S. The U.S. is a prime example of the hypocrisy of capitalism, a system that promotes the consolidation of money in the wealthy but depends on the concentration of money in the working class to survive. When money became concentrated in the hands of the wealthy in the 1920's, it led to an economic depression, because the working class, who need to buy things, had no money. Only the wealthy, who already had what they needed, had money. The lack of spending destroyed the economy. Only two factors contributed to the end of the depression:
1) World War II- people saved up money through war bonds, and after the war people went on a spending spree (since the savings finally gave them a chance to buy things, like food).
2) Socialism- Socialist based ecnomic policies, like minimum wage and social security restored the monetary balance.
There was even an attempt at pure socialism during the depression. Huey Long proposed equalizing all incomes, and would have run for president and most likely won, except some new orleans businessmen had him assasinated, fearing he would comprimise their immense wealth by feeding the starving masses. Even here in the U.S. today, where we have the illusion of being extremely wealthy, median income is only about $30000, about the minimum required to feed a family. As Marx said, the businesses would only pay their workers enough to get by on. The minimum wage has not risen at the same rate as inflation, and through no mystery of economics spending is decreasing.

So, Jotun, if I make people mad, that's unfortunate, but I'm sure the 3 billion starving men, women, and children in third world countries that are exploited by capitalism are pretty mad too. That is, if the sweat shops don't have rules about how children shouldn't waste time they could spend making clothes until their shoes fill with blood on such things as anger.

Edit: Forgot to address the issue of Russia's economy. Russia has always had a terrible economy. When they converted to a socialist economy, they became the second most powerful nation in the world. Now, they are capitalist again. Now they can't make missiles worth more than the tin they are made of. I think that speaks for itself. And before anyone tries to claim otherwise, Russia did not become capitalist AFTER the socialist economy failed, the Soviet Union fell because of nationalists in the soviet satelites.
 

Jotun

RAR!
Sep 30, 2000
481
0
0
RAR!
ok, so i did say that Stalin was more of a dictator than a true communist I should've said that Stalin was a true communist that acted like a dictator... Oh and about the 3 billion starving people, wont matter in about 100 years when the population has outgrown Earth and we're all dead... so have a nice day.... Also if i'm not mistaken North Korea (communist) is much worse off than South Korea (capitalist) so well that shows you how good communism is for the people...
 
Communist must be "Industrial" & "Capitalist" according to Marx.

Russia was neither "industrial" or "capitalist"

Russia called it's self "communist" which was a lie, it was socialist at best, which may be a step to communist, but it, and every other never made it

it is impossible to get to the true communist state, why?

because the last step requires the person in power to give his power up. which is just not feasible!! people who have power typically don't give it up.

I'm sorry man, good intentions...

that's all Communism is.
 

jaeg

PopeyeTurbo
Oct 18, 2000
711
0
0
I still don't see a paper....

How can we evaluate you if you don't post it?
 

Sebu_NZ

Kalashnikov's Personal Pimp!
Dec 25, 2000
1,760
0
0
New Zealand
www.muttonbone.com
phat that true

but if the person will do it and the people around are willing then it could ok, though I don't see hat happening in the near future or until ____ (Rogue when is your commmunist coup?)
 

sublime

Cynic
Aug 1, 2000
732
0
16
51
Texas
www.caffeine-addict.org
hrm.

If you don't want to show us the paper for some reason at least let that be known. You haven't even addressed the issue even though it's been brought up in around 20 posts. Why are you ignoring it? Is it cowardice? Is it the knowledge that it really was a feeble, flippant, and half-hearted attempt? Is it the knowledge that the paper really doesn't exist and was simply used as a vehicle to spew forth your political views? We want to know.
 

MJACK

New Member
Mar 14, 2000
271
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0
Lexington, MA, USA
Visit site
Rogue Leader, instead of arguing about communism, could you post your goddamned paper that this topic was started about or at least acknowledge that you are being asked to post it and give a reason why you are not posting it.
 

thornz

Inhuman...yes indeed
Dec 14, 1999
405
0
0
outer circle of hades
members.aol.com
i agree with Thunder. I started writing back before I wrote my response and he said everything i'd like to say (way back on page one).
Wow what a lot of posts. Observations:

a) not wanting to write a paper doesnt qualify you to claim the goverment as being fascist.
b) who the hell says 10 hours of sleep is what you need?
c) if you think a teachers job is easy, i'd suggest trying it when you get older. However I agree that a lot of stupid people who are not at all forward thinking somehow end up teaching high school. Perhaps it's because they never left.
d) just do yourself a favor and drop out.
e) believe it or not, knowing random pieces of info might actually come in handy. Again, the school system works on the grander scale. It doesnt assume you'll be a historian, but SOMEBODY is going to be some day. Hell, might be you. You mgiht find out you are interested in goverment or in law, and then knowing the details of the magna carta would be useful, if only as a springboard to something else. The whiner himself stated that the past is important as not to repeat it.
f) i would like to be a communist, I really would. Unfortunately that would also make me an idealist, which I can't accept. A communist nation would be a utopia and a utopia can't exist.
g) very few people can write a proper essay in this country. you'd be suprised how difficult it is for most people to write a single coherent, interesting thought onto a sheet of paper. If you would, i'd like to read your essay Rogue. Mail it to me at existless@aol.com
h) in my heart of hearts I am like most americans a patriot. I only wish america would/could live up to it's end of the bargain, but i forgive it.
i) there is a candian amongst our ranks and none of you have done anything about this? For shame...
j) the goverment doesnt sit there with a black marker and censor everything. FOR CHRIST SAKES, SCHOOLS ARE A HUNDRED TIMES MORE OPEN TO LEARNING AND NEW IDEAS THAN THEY WERE JUST 20 YEARS AGO!! And of course theyre are a lot of things you don't learn in school. Well, then go read a book then! There are ways of challenging a system and bending it's rules that will get you lauded and not thrown out. And college exists for a reason, namely to unlearn high school.
k) mason rules!!!
l) wow, comparing our school system to israel! Sweet! Maybe I can bring my gun to school, IF WE WERE IN A FREAKING HOLY WAR!!!!!!!! Comparing our contry to others doesnt usually work, as cultural boundaries and different points of views alter the ways that citizens respond to things.
m) you seem to refuse to post the paper, which adds no weight to your arguments.
n)
"So my teacher gets to define what is an important event in my life? "
well now you're just admitting you're a smart aleck. Would you really consider that paper to be an important event, except perhaps in retrospect? COULD you write a good paper about how in retrospect it was an important event? No.
o) you're doing a nice job of avoiding the arguments thrown at you. Instead you make statements that 2/3 of us already know about how a communist goverment SHOULD act and not HOW it has acted. Thats great. Thanks for the history lesson. But we knew it already.
p) people arent only exploited by capitalism, but by their own goverments. I'm not blaming them for starving, i'm just saying you can't say it's all Americas fault. Theres a lot more we can do, I admit, but at the same time it doesnt jusify the impossible feat of revamping the whole earths economy. And if you want to do that, again, drop out. Go and join Amnesty International, do something productive.

what this thread has taught me the most is that the seeds of discontent that have been sowed amongst our youth, that their elders have betrayed them and that there is no way out, have grown much since the 60's. It used to be the kids were angry and wanted change. Now were bitter and seething. You wonder why colombine happened? Why any school shooting happened? Because someone thought they got the short end enough, and that there was nothing they could do. The United States is a very paranoid place right now, on both ends. Teachers are scared as hell, and there have ben a flurry of suspensions lately over anything even remotely related to violence. I thoroughly think thats wrong, along with the idea that armed revolution is called for at this stage in our goverment. There isnt anything in this thread I havent thought myself before, or heard a friend state like it was some holy truth about the mission we must seek, the mission of rebellion. It's always there, and it never happens. Well, until now, and it wasnt supposed to be this way.
 

Mason

Self appointed voice of reason
Dec 14, 2000
1,216
0
0
Upstate NY
forums.unreal2.net
/me bows before the praise offered by Thornz.

Great points, ALL of them. I am curious to see what response is given though..

In my opinion, far too many kids have become whiny little wenches...cying about how "this isn't fair" or "I was treated unjustly". Wait a few years until you become part of the workforce, THEN you can b!tch about how unfair your life(or boss) is and how everything is a conspiracy against you. Sorry, but I am waaaay tired of high schoolers whining about these things. Not that all of you do this, you don't, but there are enough of you that it casts you all in this unfavorable light.

..and regarding all this idealistic talk about communism, I don't see or hear about anyone who is willing to give up their 'dirty capitalistic' possessions so that they are on an equal footing with those less fortunate(at least not around here). I think of this current fascination with communism as a fad, much like how several years ago EVERYONE wanted to 'save the whales' and more recently, everyone seems to be a vegetarian. It is, apparently, 'hip' to be 'against the man'..the 'man' currently being capitalism. Funny, I don't see anyone giving up their 'capitalistic' ways and living by the ideals they so 'vehemently' uphold, I wonder why?

The grass is ALWAYS greener somewhere else..but remember, the people standing on 'that' grass are looking at the grass you currently stand on and are thinking the exact same thing.
 

Mason

Self appointed voice of reason
Dec 14, 2000
1,216
0
0
Upstate NY
forums.unreal2.net
Yeah! Way to go guys. I agree we should keep this thread up near the top until we get some response, whether it be the paper or responses from Rogue that don't harp on 'communism'. It's like a little 'sit in' strike! :) Rogue, where art thou? We just really want to read your paper so we can see how much of a b!tch your teacher is.