Sense prevails in US politics

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Mr. UglyPants

2007 never existed, it was all a dream.
Aug 22, 2005
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Canada... eh
Never understood why it takes people so long to just say yes to something that is great. Wtv, ya Canadian health care ^^.... wait, must be socialist, which means we r actually communists, oh noes. Lol. I actually can't believe that had been a prominent discussion against the health bill, Canada as evidence for being socialist aka communist aka US will totally turn communist with a health care bill. Makes me lawl.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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And Canada is rolling in money and rubbing it in Americans' collective faces, right? :p
 

anaemic

she touch your penis?
Jan 7, 2002
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there are 47 million americans with no health insurance, are you trying to say that of them, every single one is a good for nothing scouger who is voluntarily hoarding their money into piles of jew gold and crack instead of sensibly spending it on insurance?

what about people that private health care companies wont insure? what about the unemployed? what about the working people who dont make enough money?

less than a quarter of the uninsured currently qualify for free healthcare.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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there are 47 million americans with no health insurance, are you trying to say that of them, every single one is a good for nothing scouger who is voluntarily hoarding their money into piles of jew gold and crack instead of sensibly spending it on insurance?
No, I'm saying that the people this actually try to help aren't all helpless like you're trying to make it sound. Lots of people don't have health insurance because of their own choices. Not having health insurance does not mean has no way of getting health insurance.
what about people that private health care companies wont insure? what about the unemployed? what about the working people who dont make enough money?
This bill isn't going to make healthcare more affordable, unless you simply don't make any money. But how about we fix these problems instead of trying to fix problems that don't exist?
less than a quarter of the uninsured currently qualify for free healthcare.
Have any sources on that? Hopefully more than one? :p
 

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
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I know this thread is going to kick up a ****storm, but I am just damned happy that our country is FINALLY doing something about health care. It's not enough, it lacks a public option which I feel is very important, it has that bull**** abortion amendment and it lacks tort reform which needs to happen as well (although not to the extent that the reps pushed for which essentially gave a middle figure to screwed over patients and a pat on the back of negligent doctors), but I'll freaking take it.

The US has fallen way too far behind in caring for its population and this will at least do a little bit to help correct that. It's painful how partisan the vote was, but unfortunately we live in a period when most senate republicans would rather support rape than vote with a democrat, so what should I expect on a large dem pet project? Time will tell how this bill plays out, but I'm freaking happy as hell.

~Jason
 

kiff

That guy from Texas. Give me some Cash
Jan 19, 2008
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anaemic, you're just showing how little you know about our system and illustrating why most non-americans should even get involved in this. should we talk about your country and how 1/6 of households are on welfare? I can go on, but I don't like trashing the country 1/2 my family lives in, so...

yea, it's great we're going to force ppl, unconstitutionally, to buy insurance and punish them if they don't. how much will this really cost in the end? $10 Trillion? good chance, if not even more.

I hope you guys really like how you'll be paying into it for years before it even kicks in. have fun in jail if you can't pay for it...
 

SkaarjMaster

enemy of time
Sep 1, 2000
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US politics is a reflection of how polarized and whiny the American people have become.:( No matter which side you are on, there is no sense to US politics.
 

ZenPirate

Living Legend (and moderator)
Nov 21, 2000
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I really wish the politicians, health care industry, and the media would stop the propaganda and give us the facts on how to fix the health care problem. My employer payed $15,000 USD last year for my family health care plan, which is separate from my prescription plan!! This cost is expected to increase 23% this year. My employer will either have to eat this cost, pass it on to me, or drop my coverage. The costs of health care are killing employers in this country, hurting their ability to compete globally, and hurting small businesses from even being able to offer health care. I don't have any answers for this, other than to move away from the employer based system, but all these idiots in Washington aren't giving me any answers I want to hear.
 

TWD

Cute and Cuddly
Aug 2, 2000
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Sense? This is laughable.

Purely from a political point of view there is nothing sensible about it. The manner in which this bill has been pushed through is nothing but trouble for final reform. Democrats in the house have been particularly hurt by this process. The vote on abortion funds left a lot of hurt feelings that will take a long time for some members to forget. What's more Democrats have shown a complete unwillingness to compromise or include Republicans in any way. When Republicans brought an amendment to the floor that would have added tort reform, the amendment was immediately shot down. So much for "looking into" that. It was hard for even some Democrats to choke down.

Moderate Democrats in the senate may not roll over so easily. We already saw a lot of drama concerning the finance committee which has been ironically thrown to the wayside. All of that work to try and get 60 votes for nothing. I don't think this helps them gain any ground towards getting this done before the end of the year. All it's doing is forcing a battle between liberal and moderate democrats, something that Democrats might not recover from. Forget about all the bad ideas like cap and trade or the traders tax that Democrats want to go after. They'll have a hard time even passing the stuff that we really need and are good ideas like financial reform.

I am also extremely concerned at how the markets will view these events on Monday. The last thing we need is a big down day where both the dollar and the stock market take big hits. Looking at the technicals / charts this is just the wrong time for something like that. I'm hoping that the markets ignore the whole thing.
 
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Benfica

European Redneck
Feb 6, 2006
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SkaarjMaster said:
US politics is a reflection of how polarized and whiny the American people have become.:(
I've been saying this for years, the impact of your 2 party system is felt here. Politics doesn't need to be uni-dimensional. You can be a tradicionalist or religious and still believe in modern socialism.
 

Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
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i know what you should do, un'socialise' policing and fire departments, why the hell should everyone have to pay to stop someone elses house burning down. No ones shooting at me I don't need the police, ill save my money and pay for a private security company like they do in south africa.
image-93F5_4AF6ED68.gif
You're fighting the wrong fight with me, brother. Police and fire department monies come mostly from local and state income, property and sales taxes. Besides, these services are also necessary for property protection, not just public safety. Show me where health care provides protection for my home or business.
 

Lizard Of Oz

Demented Avenger
Oct 25, 1998
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In a cave & grooving with a Pict
www.nsa.gov
I really wish the politicians, health care industry, and the media would stop the propaganda and give us the facts on how to fix the health care problem. My employer payed $15,000 USD last year for my family health care plan, which is separate from my prescription plan!! This cost is expected to increase 23% this year. My employer will either have to eat this cost, pass it on to me, or drop my coverage. The costs of health care are killing employers in this country, hurting their ability to compete globally, and hurting small businesses from even being able to offer health care. I don't have any answers for this, other than to move away from the employer based system, but all these idiots in Washington aren't giving me any answers I want to hear.

Two words...

Single. Payer.
 

Selerox

COR AD COR LOQVITVR
Nov 12, 1999
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TheUKofGBandNI
selerox.deviantart.com
This si what a lack of co-operative thinking leads to.

If this issue is anything to go by, the USA is heading for civil war with mind-bending alacrity.

An over-reaction? Maybe, but every avalanche starts with the smallest motion.
 

M.A.D.X.W

Active Member
Aug 24, 2008
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No good will come of people discussing politics on the Internet. Or anywhere actually.
Apart from specific political discussion areas.
 

ZenPirate

Living Legend (and moderator)
Nov 21, 2000
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If this issue is anything to go by, the USA is heading for civil war with mind-bending alacrity.

An over-reaction? Maybe, but every avalanche starts with the smallest motion.

Nah, we're too complacent. Other than the very passionate, and those being payed to protest, most of us are quite happy to feel powerless to do anything but complain from the safety of our living rooms..until it's time to watch our favorite tv show.


On a side note, I'll say this again. I find it funny that the people I see on TV with the "Taking away my freedomz!!" protest signs over "socialized" health care are the very same people who are more than happy to put their children on a bus bound for public "socialized" school every morning.
 
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Zxanphorian

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Jul 1, 2002
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The American Civil War II, a catchy name! ;)

In all seriousness: let me propose a few questions (some of them coming from the Devil's advocate within me), that may or may not be rhetorical.

  • If we want true state and local government rights, then why don't we just split up into a confederacy of states, and then have smaller city-states within the larger states? What if the CSA was right all along during the American Civil War? (I reject the notion that slavery was the only key issue in what ultimately set off the war. I do not reject the notion that the issue was the larger "Federal vs. State" rights debate.)
  • What if you are a well to do person, who lives within their means, and has a sustainable and stable part in society. Then, for an unforeseen event, you fall out of this situation, and you cannot find, for instance, any health insurance or any other system that you could qualify for (like not having any pre-existing condition, etc). You will continue to spiral out of control in the current system. Wouldn't you want a safety net of sorts put into place to help you get on your feet?
  • Lets tackle the whole "redistribution of wealth" idea. Lets go back to your initial condition from the previous bullet point. Lets say that you will be taxed more than you were before (for sake of argument, quite a significant amount more) from a law that changes the initial system into a new one, that helps out the classes that are lower than you. Lets also assume that the added burden on your part will not hinder your ability to maintain your initial condition. Would you be willing to do this, to help your fellow countrymen? I sure would. It would, for me, be an insurance of sorts. You never know, you could fall out of your lifestyle, and you can readily take advantage of the system that you were paying into.
  • Lets say this system being proposed and implemented is unsustainable. Lets say that it does more harm than good. I don't see a reason why the implemented system would take a long time (i.e. decades) to repeal. Prohibition took 14 years to repeal, but that was an amendment. I would assume that laws would be easier and quicker to implement and repeal than amendments.
  • A bit more inflammatory for sake of argument: I would be willing to bet that, for the people who complain about "socialized" this or "socialized" that, for whatever reason falls out of their fairytale existence, would happily take advantage of every "socialized" thing that they can get their hands on.

I could propose some more scenarios and questions, but it would be futile to do so.
 
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