Thief

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Carbon

Altiloquent bloviator.
Mar 23, 2013
557
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Well, I got it and played through it from beginning to end. It was alright I thought, but felt something was missing. It put me in the mood to revisit previous titles, so I played through The Metal Age and then Deadly Shadows.

I thought The Metal Age was great, but the graphics are very dated; it was hard for me to rise above that, even though I do consider myself to be a very generous person in that regard.

Deadly Shadows has a texture makeover available as well as the "sneaky upgrade", both of which make the game pretty good looking. I thoroughly enjoyed the game and despite some minor negative differences from Thief 2 - the smaller city divided into 'sections' with load screens and the absence of rope arrows - I thought it was a much more compelling and cohesive game.

Coming from Deadly Shadows, I have started to play the new Thief again and now it seems much more in line with an honest waypoint in the series; I am really enjoying it. Yes, the "press E", the quick-time-ish moments and the lack of out-of-context jumping are kind of lame, Garret is now a bit too dark and has lost his ironic outlook in exchange for some emo navel gazing; that and the NPCs don't 'taff', they swear. However, it is a very good game and true to the series. I can only best see the game by first looking back though and I thought that was a good talking point.

Having only truly appreciated Thief after playing through earlier incarnations has made me wonder if this shouldn't be normal practice for me (us)? Before we jump into sequel 5 of some game, we should remind ourselves of where it came from and then we are better equipped to gauge where it has ended up. My view of Thief was changed quite dramatically after revisiting previous versions and I now believe that I will make this a habit of mine for all incremental games.

Unreal 2 is one of the few games where this doesn't hold true and if we ever get an Unreal 3, I will not go back to U2. Generally however, I think it is a good idea. Thoughts?
 

Zur

surrealistic mad cow
Jul 8, 2002
11,708
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Funny. Was just looking at Thief at GOG.

Unreal 2 is one of the few games where this doesn't hold true and if we ever get an Unreal 3, I will not go back to U2. Generally however, I think it is a good idea. Thoughts?

For me, Unreal II was more of a side adventure with respect to the first Unreal. Not really an episode as such.

As for playing through older games, sure. Perhaps the previous episode can be spruced up if we somehow get game engines where content becomes abstract and can get boosted by newer tech.
 

Manticore

Official BUF Angel of Death (also Birthdays)
Staff member
Nov 5, 2003
6,377
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Funny. Was just looking at Thief at GOG.

I've played some of the earlier titles but I've heard that this reboot, while looking and sounding the goods, doesn't float the gameplay boat.

I get the impression games like Dishonored and Assassin's Creed have sort have left Thief in their dust....
 

Carbon

Altiloquent bloviator.
Mar 23, 2013
557
10
18
I've played some of the earlier titles but I've heard that this reboot, while looking and sounding the goods, doesn't float the gameplay boat.

I get the impression games like Dishonored and Assassin's Creed have sort have left Thief in their dust....

I respectfully disagree. None of those games could replace one another. While some thematic elements may be similar, gameplay-wise they are quite different. Having played all three, I found that they each offer something quite unique.

Saying Assassin's Creed is like (insert game name); it may be easier to ask what game that series hasn't ripped off in one form or another. I am not saying it is a bad series (though certainly up and down), but it was never breaking new ground.

Thief however, was a genre-defining game for the first three installments and the newer one - as I said in my OP - needs some context in order to be fully appreciated. This is a danger when a series sits still for too long; people forget about it and when it gets rebooted, the frame of reference is gone. Players are fickle as well: 'what have you done for me lately'-type thinking.
 

Carbon

Altiloquent bloviator.
Mar 23, 2013
557
10
18
Funny. Was just looking at Thief at GOG.



For me, Unreal II was more of a side adventure with respect to the first Unreal. Not really an episode as such.

As for playing through older games, sure. Perhaps the previous episode can be spruced up if we somehow get game engines where content becomes abstract and can get boosted by newer tech.

Indeed. While many take the time and make the great stretches and efforts to find a cohesive narrative in the Unreal series, it is terribly fractured. Unreal 2 is best thought of as you said - a diversion; folly.

A lot of great old games are getting attention if you look around. The texture package for Thief Deadly shadows really does a nice job of making the game feel much newer than 2004.
 

Hellkeeper

Soulless Automaton
Feb 16, 2014
146
4
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France
hellkeeper.net
Indeed. While many take the time and make the great stretches and efforts to find a cohesive narrative in the Unreal series, it is terribly fractured. Unreal 2 is best thought of as you said - a diversion; folly.

Not to mention that UC was erased from the timeline, and UT, UT2003/4 and UT3 outright contradict each others.
 

Manticore

Official BUF Angel of Death (also Birthdays)
Staff member
Nov 5, 2003
6,377
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I respectfully disagree. None of those games could replace one another. While some thematic elements may be similar, gameplay-wise they are quite different. Having played all three, I found that they each offer something quite unique.

Saying Assassin's Creed is like (insert game name); it may be easier to ask what game that series hasn't ripped off in one form or another. I am not saying it is a bad series (though certainly up and down), but it was never breaking new ground.

Thief however, was a genre-defining game for the first three installments and the newer one - as I said in my OP - needs some context in order to be fully appreciated. This is a danger when a series sits still for too long; people forget about it and when it gets rebooted, the frame of reference is gone. Players are fickle as well: 'what have you done for me lately'-type thinking.

Perhaps not but they are all stealth based....... as a generalisation.The new Thief appears to have a very Dishonored vibe in the art direction from what I have seen (or perhaps it should be vice versa).
 

Carbon

Altiloquent bloviator.
Mar 23, 2013
557
10
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But having a similar theme in art direction or being in a similar genre (and only just similar; Dishonored clearly invites lethal action over stealth or evasion) hardly implies one leaving the other in the dust.

Now before you jump the the parenthetic assertion, Dishonored can be ghosted and it is fun to do, but with the wide range of overpowered tools at hand, they are truly inviting the player to do away with NPCs much more strongly than Thief. Also, once all upgrades are attained, ghosting in Dishonored is easy compared to Thief. The upgrades in Thief are much less game-changing.

Anyhow, I all but agreed with you that they art style is similar in the two, but only similar and even then I would argue that only a cursory examination would lead one to such a conclusion. Play them both and it is clear that the art style, gameplay...heck...they are totally different games. That they both use crouch does not make them comparable.

I am enjoying Thief more than I did Dishonored, so as always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

EDIT: As far as who is imitating who, I would agree that Dishonored was clearly inspired by Thief. Thief is a natural iteration from Deadly Shadows - as I said in the OP - whereas Dishonored went in a much more steampunk-styled direction. Stealth in Dishonored largely means staying out of the line of sight of NPCs ,while Thief means shadows; which game has a light gem? Very telling, that.
 
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Manticore

Official BUF Angel of Death (also Birthdays)
Staff member
Nov 5, 2003
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I am enjoying Thief more than I did Dishonored, so as always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Works for me.

I'm actually playing all three Batman titles at the moment and enjoying them; they have quite a large bit of stealth in them but then you can go loud (so to speak) in other places.

I'm not a huge fan of stealth but I may give Thief a run sometime....
 

Carbon

Altiloquent bloviator.
Mar 23, 2013
557
10
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I also enjoy the Batman games; stealth with a cool twist. Very enjoyable and the combat is a blast.

If you don't like stealth then Thief might not be for you? Wait for a Steam sale or similar maybe.

I should add that with SweetFX, the graphics really look nice. By default, things are a bit hazy but SweetFX - KPutts config found on the SweetFX site - is a nice touch. Sharpens things up, removes some of the haze and boosts the contrast a bit.

One more tweak - and this one is a bit more involved - removes the flash that occurs when you move from shadows to lighted areas which is a bit annoying. Also removing the edge vignette or 'shroud' when crouched is nice.

More info here for those interested: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143411&page=3
 

leilei

ANIME ELF'S !!
Jan 20, 2008
575
8
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screw thief, that game sucks

you owe it to yourself to buy and play thief
 

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
3,754
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I have to say, while I enjoyed the game, and it's definitely better than Deadly Shadows, with the absurdly small levels and horrible AI in that game (ugh), it's still a VERY pale shadow of The Metal Age. Only the Baron's mansion really felt as expansive and interesting in the reboot, which was a crying shame. Too often it was gated, put an emphasis on silly blockbuster type moments and had levels that didn't feel like there was enough to do. Most importantly, after the first few levels, the point was no longer to steal things, and that was just sort of a thing you did while you were there. THAT was a freaking shame for a game called Thief. Oh, I should also mention that the story is terrible and the writing is worse, but whatever, videogames.

All that being said, the movement was fantastic, the AI was pretty solid (has its weak moments, sure, but works really well for the most part), and it looks great (except for Garett's character design, which is terrible. SO terrible). The lack of jump and the use of the rope arrow ONLY in specially designated spots hurts the game as a thieving sim (which it SHOULD be more of), but is fine as a puzzle solving element--only I don't care about the puzzle solving aspect, so take that as you will.

As far as Dishonored goes: Both Dishonored and this reboot feel like they were inspired by the original Thief games, but took the idea in different directions. Dishonored is a crappy stealth game (it's stupid easy and simplistic), but has bigger, more fluid levels and is a bit more fun, while this has the sneaking down pat, but feels cramped. They both also tweak the steampunkish theme of the original games, though the Thief reboot is less visually interesting (partially because it's more "realistic" and that is silly).

If you love stealth games, this is obviously worth picking up, but if you want something where you can fight and kill your way out of a tough spot (ala Dishonored or batman), don't bother, it's not that kind of a game. It's not a great entry, and it doesn't live up to the standard the studio set with their Deus Ex game, but it's solid.
 

Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
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The lack of jump and the use of the rope arrow ONLY in specially designated spots hurts the game as a thieving sim

Contextual navigation was a hell lot of fun to bug when they did art pass on the maps!
 

Carbon

Altiloquent bloviator.
Mar 23, 2013
557
10
18
Only the Baron's mansion really felt as expansive and interesting in the reboot, which was a crying shame.

I thought the Old Cathedral was reasonably scaled, as was the House of Blossoms; both were certainly engaging and quite challenging. It makes a big difference to turn off all of the hand-holding - the way point markers, loot glint, focus, etc.