Help me design my competitive multiplayer shooter

[SAS]Solid Snake · Dec 1, 2009

Hey guys, I'm working on a prototype of a multiplayer competitive shooter using the UDK. The current elements that are set in stone are:

BSP only maps with little to no static mesh use [HOLP is a classic example]. While we could make maps very pretty by using lots of static meshes, I would much prefer to have a wider selection of maps. The other reason is for game play reasons and I wanted collision information to be presentable in a straight forward manner since weapons may have reflective (ricochet) based damage and it makes performing wall dodges easier and more predictable. Static meshes may be used sparingly in a few places but the idea is to have very little.
Movement complexity is reasonably high, so wall dodging, boost dodging and jump dodging is in. Double jumping is unlikely. These will also be timed based to provide extra boost in movement speed.
Perks. Perks are chosen before spawning and none of them need to be unlocked. Perks are fed points based on damage dealt, kills scored or other game play events. When perks are fully charged, players can then activate them. Once activated they cannot be turned off and they will tick down, but they can be kept activated for longer by earning points (similar to Adrenaline in UT2004 but without the key combination)
Ammo Modifiers. These modify weapons by changing what kind of ammo they use. This is similar to Warsow.
Armor. Armor is full blocking for a particular part of the body (No % based damage model, it blocks 100% of damage to a particular area).

Game types for the prototype will just be Deathmatch, although I plan to have many other game types seen in UT, UT2004, UT3 and other games. Are there any game mechanics you guys think would make the core game mechanics more interesting?

FuLLBLeeD · Dec 1, 2009

So this is an arena shooter like UT?

Make sure weapons are correctly balanced if the game will have dodge jumping, or else hitscan will reign supreme. UT3's weapon balance is a good place to start as its probably the best in the series.

What kind of weapons we looking at?

Will you be able to rocket/grenade jump?

I don't know much about Unreal Engine 3 modding but I can definitely help test and QA the game for you.

Sir_Brizz · Dec 1, 2009

I'm guessing the game won't be moddable? If not at least mappable, it's pointless.

TWD · Dec 1, 2009

I would just like to point out that the ripper is the worst weapon to ever be in a UT game ever (discounting Unreal 2 of course...)

Iron Archer · Dec 1, 2009

Someone needs to make a FPS that is easily moddable like LittleBigPlanet. That would kick ass.

Sir_Brizz · Dec 1, 2009

TWD said:
I would just like to point out that the ripper is the worst weapon to ever be in a UT game ever (discounting Unreal 2 of course...)

Don't be wrong like Dark Pulse.

[SAS]Solid Snake · Dec 1, 2009

Make sure weapons are correctly balanced if the game will have dodge jumping, or else hitscan will reign supreme. UT3's weapon balance is a good place to start as its probably the best in the series.

That's a really good point that I haven't considered actually.

What kind of weapons we looking at?

At the moment the weapon layout isn't confirmed but what I can confirm at this stage is:

A sub machine gun with ricocheting bullets (the bounce when hitting a surface), active reload (as seen in GoW)
A riot gun which is the games shotgun. Normally it can fire six pellets out, but you can optionally load it up with four shells and it will fire out twenty eight pellets. The calculations are (6 * shell_count) + shell_count. These have pellets have moderate penetration, so you can shoot through thin / medium walls
A flame thrower. When you shoot into empty space it will injure as radial damage, but if it comes into contact with a surface it will stick to it and radiate damage for a short time

Will you be able to rocket/grenade jump?

Yes. This is all about technical and precise game play.

I don't know much about Unreal Engine 3 modding but I can definitely help test and QA the game for you.

Awesome. Thanks for that.

I'm guessing the game won't be moddable? If not at least mappable, it's pointless.

All is not lost. While I can't distribute the Editor myself, a user could download the UDK and apply a development patch over it and be able to map for this game.

Sir_Brizz · Dec 1, 2009

[SAS]Solid Snake;2390839 said:
All is not lost. While I can't distribute the Editor myself, a user could download the UDK and apply a development patch over it and be able to map for this game.

Explain? I've got a game semi-in-the-works on UDK but it's heavily user generated content dependent, so I can't do anything real with it right now.

[SAS]Solid Snake · Dec 1, 2009

If you released uncooked packages and the unrealscript source files... with the appropriate installer you could create a patch that would be applied on top of the UDK to transform the UDK to be an editor for your game.

JohnDoe641 · Dec 1, 2009

I'll gladly help out. I don't know if you have anyone else who plays as competitive or on the same level as I do, so I'll be glad test.

What is the movement system going to be like? I like dodging, but I prefer the physics based movement of Quack and the refined but more free CPMA movement. My ideal movement system would be a hybrid of the two systems. If you've ever played the Jello mutator for 2k4, it's sort of like that, but way less extreme.

[SAS]Solid Snake · Dec 1, 2009

I'll check out the jello mutator for 2k4 and see if I can merge the ideas together. Movement is designed to be pretty exact, including good air control.

T2A` · Dec 1, 2009

If you're going to do perks/adrenaline, they need to be charged equally whether or not the player is losing or winning. If they only charge for damage dealt or kills then you have a positive feedback loop situation that unbalances the game in favor of whoever is winning the current match.

Because they need to be charged equally I'd say don't even bother including them in the game but that does limit complexity a bit.

Perhaps rather than being charged they can be activated only once per match at any time. And maybe there could be situations where both players get them reactivated -- such as when they kill each other (edit: assuming this is a 1v1 game). Regardless, the activation amounts should always be equal.

This way losing players can use them in a pinch and winning players can use them to try and widen their point gap. But since each player gets them an equal number of times there isn't any bias as to who gets them the quickest or gets to use them the most.

That's ultimately the problem with things like adrenaline in UT2004 and air support in CoD4 -- good players get them all the time when they don't need them and bad players never get them even though they need them desperately.

FuLLBLeeD · Dec 1, 2009

Put in some sort of adrenaline system like in UT that gradually fills up over time, increase by a medium amount when you get a kill, and increases by a little amount when you die. Problem solved.

T2A` · Dec 1, 2009

Solved? No. Mitigated a bit compared to UT2004/CoD4? Sure.

What happens when the perk is "do more damage for X seconds"? Some good player starts the game off and uses his better abilities to get ahead. His perk fills up far quicker than the people he's killed -- the effect is worse the more players involved as the "you're bad" charge is spread over a group rather than one guy -- and he uses the perk to further distance himself from the competition.

As the winning player he will constantly be more able to get armor, the better/more tactical weapons, stronger ammo, etc. in addition to his perk charge filling up more than anyone else's. Not solved.

FuLLBLeeD · Dec 1, 2009

T2A` said:
Solved? No. Mitigated a bit compared to UT2004/CoD4? Sure.

What happens when the perk is "do more damage for X seconds"? Some good player starts the game off and uses his better abilities to get ahead. His perk fills up far quicker than the people he's killed -- the effect is worse the more players involved as the "you're bad" charge is spread over a group rather than one guy -- and he uses the perk to further distance himself from the competition.

As the winning player he will constantly be more able to get armor, the better/more tactical weapons, stronger ammo, etc. in addition to his perk charge filling up more than anyone else's. Not solved.

I think the OP's idea of this system needs to be fleshed out a whole lot more because that's not what I was thinking at all. Do you get your abilities as soon as you spawn?

[SAS]Solid Snake · Dec 2, 2009

T2A`

You're right. In fact I experience this a lot in Call of Duty 4 where if I was on a good streak I would constantly use radar, helicopter and so forth. When I was on a losing streak, I would constantly get frustrated because of that.

Perhaps everyone gets x amount charge per player. The only problem I can see with this is what happens when players quit. Or what happens when a player rejoins or first connects.

I need to keep thinking how to best solve this. But thanks for that.

xMurphyx · Dec 2, 2009

You could make it based on something like UT2004's adrenalin but make the leading players earn less of it per kill than the players closer to the bottom of the scoreboard. Roughly speaking a player with a high score is worth more to take down than a player with a low score plus better players are taxed more than worse players.

Smoking Guns formerly known as Westernquake 3 does something like this for earning money in deathmatch games.

It'll most likely be tough to balance it but I think it's possible that way.

Wulff · Dec 2, 2009

Here's a basic sheet of bonus stuff, not exactly in favor of damage bonus.

Kill bonus of +5.
Kill assist of +2 if you do 25% of damage or more, but don't make the killshot.
Kill streak bonus of +5*streakcount. Maximum streak of 25 kills, anything above that doesn't get counted anymore.
Killing someone on a streak gets you a bonus ( streakcount * 3 ) + standard kill bonus.
If you're on a streak, and you get killed you get a ( streakcount * 2 ) penalty.
If you get killed while not on a streak +2.
Death streak doubles the next kill bonus, and doubles deathpoints.

Also include some 'challenges', a way to earn bonus points with some fun stuff. A +15 bonus for each.

It Burns!!! - Kill 10 people with flamethrower stuff stickied to something.
Out of sight, out of mind. - Kill 10 people through solid matter with a riot gun.
Collateral Damage. - Kill 10 people using ricochets with SMG.

Ammo modifiers. Keep it simple, make the ammo stronger, but don't have the special ability of standard ammo. Modified ammo should only be 2 full magazines.

Dum Dum rounds for SMG, bullets explode inside targets, also explode when hitting a wall.
Flechette for riot gun, better accuracy, less spread, more damage, sticks to the walls.
Cryo fuel for Flamethrower, less range, slows down target, and does more damage, evaporates when it comes into contact with walls, leaves a small decal.

[SAS]Solid Snake · Dec 2, 2009

I like those ideals Wulff! Thanks for the great ideas.

Wulff · Dec 2, 2009

Small idea for the rocketlauncher;

Make the rocket arm itself in flight, plays a small beep sound when it's armed. If up close minor damage, decent blastradius for rocketjump. Further away, big explosion. Insta-Gib if direct hit. Two rockets internal magazine.

Modified ammo can be a special missile. Explodes in flight if close enough to an enemy, letting lose a deadly cloud of shrapnel. Conical spread pattern. Minor explosion if it hits a wall, but no shrapnel.

Help me design my competitive multiplayer shooter

New Member

fart

Administrator

Cute and Cuddly

Holy ****ing King of Trolls

Administrator

New Member

Administrator

New Member

Killer Fools Pro

New Member

I'm dead.

fart

I'm dead.

fart

New Member

New Member

Bola Gun fun anyone?

New Member

Bola Gun fun anyone?