Mass Effect 3: "Lets milk this for every penny" Edition

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dragonfliet

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Apr 24, 2006
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You guys should be hating on DLC itself, not the content of the DLC. Especially when it's such little content for $10 (that's the real crime). It's completely up to the creators what is a part of the main game and not. If you don't like it, don't buy it, I won't be getting this DLC, or any DLC for ME3, just like I didn't get any for ME2.

I, for one, think any day one DLC is dumb, and I hate DLC in general, I prefer larger expansion packs.

It isn't DLC itself. I like DLC. While, yeah, as pointed out, it can be annoying to have to play the game over again (if you don't have any gamesaves ready) if you want them at the ending, adding a character into a game is a pretty huge deal and awesome. I enjoyed the Kasumi DLC, for instance (and absolutely loved the Liara DLC).

I'm a fan, actually, of small snippets here and there. Full expansion packs are cool, too, but having a nice smattering of stuff on the side is nice. I just love bite-sized content.

It's only when DLC is something that should absolutely have been in the game that I get upset. If you only figured out, 1 year away from publishing, that you NEEDED a Prothean in the game, then fucking put it in the game. If you don't get it finished until after the game had to go for Gold certification, then make it day one DLC THAT IS FREE. You know, because it belongs in the game. Adding in costumes and guns and armors, I could care less about (they are cosmetic pieces of fluff that I couldn't care less about, or, if I want it, is worth the silly $3 puchase), but this is crap.
 

SleepyHe4d

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Jan 20, 2008
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It isn't DLC itself. I like DLC. While, yeah, as pointed out, it can be annoying to have to play the game over again (if you don't have any gamesaves ready) if you want them at the ending, adding a character into a game is a pretty huge deal and awesome. I enjoyed the Kasumi DLC, for instance (and absolutely loved the Liara DLC).

I'm a fan, actually, of small snippets here and there. Full expansion packs are cool, too, but having a nice smattering of stuff on the side is nice. I just love bite-sized content.

It's only when DLC is something that should absolutely have been in the game that I get upset. If you only figured out, 1 year away from publishing, that you NEEDED a Prothean in the game, then fucking put it in the game. If you don't get it finished until after the game had to go for Gold certification, then make it day one DLC THAT IS FREE. You know, because it belongs in the game. Adding in costumes and guns and armors, I could care less about (they are cosmetic pieces of fluff that I couldn't care less about, or, if I want it, is worth the silly $3 puchase), but this is crap.

I don't really understand where you're coming from at all since you just contradicted yourself. You like DLC and bite sized pieces of content, you liked the Kasumi DLC (which also added a character), but you're against this?

It's an optional piece of content, just like the Kasumi DLC. Are you against it cause its day 1 DLC? Well that's the nature of DLC (greed), which you said you like, so you should have accepted that possibility.

I don't mind DLC when it is priced properly and is either a self contained story or does not affect the story or outcome of the main game. The Borderlands DLC are a good example of this, though they were probably not all priced properly when they were released.

Unfortunately, Bioware/EA don't get this. There is a huge market of people who aren't going to buy your stupid DLC when it is $15 for a single character mission in ME2 and the price literally never goes down. They are also obviously intent on milking every penny they can possibly find out of this series and I've just had enough. There are dozens of other great games I can support that don't do stupid crap like this on every freaking game they release. Talk to me again when there is an ME compendium with all the DLC and you don't have to install five 1-1.5gb separate packages just to get the whole game.

The length is uhhhhhhh.... but his point is fine. Dragonfliet nailed it above when he said that having day one DLC that comes free with one edition of the game and also is pretty central to the theme and plot of the entire series is just really bad form. It's underhanded and should simply not be done. Also, ambershee's point, too, if the DLC cannot be completed after you've finished the main game, it is stupid. I shouldn't have to do another 22 hour playthrough of ME2 just to play the Kasumi mission and have her in the final mission. Same for Liara. It reeks of either poor planning or greed... or both.

Agree on the DLC part, which is why I said, hate it because it's DLC. Sure, DLC can be "fair" if it's priced good, but that goes against the nature of DLC (greed), so when does that happen? :lol: Even then, personally, I would hate the DLC anyways.

I see what you mean on the Kasumi DLC and not being able to complete it after the game, but that was probably just poor planning. It's easy to add stuff onto a linear game, but throwing in random missions in open ended games, what would you suggest? The lore of the Kasumi DLC wouldn't quite fit if you could do it after you finished the main quest, which is the whole reason you collected the team members. :p Meh.

I also agree that other editions of games having extra in game content sucks, but that goes hand in hand with DLCs existance too, they are basically the same thing, you pay more for more in game content. Also exclusive preorder deals with gamestop, ect. All that stuff sucks, but that's a different problem.

So all that is fine and good (I mean shitty and bad), but that's not what the guy in the main video was ranting on about, which is the DLCs content. There's no way anyone can win an argument about something they haven't even played or experienced yet, which is what main theme of that guys rant was about, which to me makes him look extremely dumb. <---(This sentence was the point of my first post, so focus on that if you disagree)

Have you watched any of his other videos? He makes really damn good points and is a pretty well respected member of the PC community.

Err, so he's a popular youtuber? Congrats I guess. I'm definitely not a fan after that ridiculous outburst. Doesn't really change the facts either. :hmm:




Also just read some of the comments in the video to know what I mean. Some of these people might explain it better than me:

Honestly, we're assuming that this plays a major role in the game. Yes its a prothean and all that but for all we know there might be a whole prothean colony in the game itself. I take back everything i said if it does play as large of a role as you think but i wont judge yet. Also (according to bioware) this was developed by a seperate team after the game was completed *while it was being marketed and manufactured and all of that).
or
Sorry dude your rant is invalid you had and now that gamble came out and gave have no idea what role he plays in the story hes just a squad member not some super scientist, this was a incentive in the CE for the fans who wanted to buy it because a prothean would interest them, when supplies ran out they offered it for people who couldnt get a CE you should rescind this boycott and apologize and admit you had no idea the full extent of this dlc bioware shouldnt suffer for your assumpion
or
He IS uninformed in this matter.

The dlc character is in the game no matter what, but you can only recruit him if you have the dlc.

Also, this was revealed months ago.Not to mention, many other game devs have done this before.What about the kasumi dlc for ME2?It's the same case as this just that it wasn't released right after the game came out, yet no one complained then.

BUT, if you wanna miss out on this game just because of this, then fine, that's your problem.Have fun.

...and there's a bunch of other comments too pointing out this guys ridiculous rant.
 
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Darkdrium

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Jun 6, 2008
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And they are assuming that whoever he is, his mission won't have any relevant or interesting lore to add to the Mass Effect universe. Nope, none at all. He's a Prothean but we'll just go on a random bandit killing mission together.

Sorry but after they've strung us along for two games about the Protheans, I'm having a hard time believing anything done with him will be as insignificant and inconsequential as they lead us to believe. And if it turns out that it is indeed the case, that's just a giant offensive middle finger to anyone who cared about the story, especially to those that buy the CE to experience this exclusivity. <- That's part of his point in the video if you have been following.
 
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SleepyHe4d

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Jan 20, 2008
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Use your brain, there could be a whole prothean colony and the DLC just lets you go on a special mission with some random prothean grunt, and use him as a member afterward. Whatever it is I'm sure you get to experience all the prothean lore and story, however they are involved in this game, you just don't get to have one in your squad.

No one assumed anything, they are just not narrow-minded like the guy in the video.

It's stupid to argue about and criticize something you have no idea about. It's also stupid to make a big deal out of this if you didn't do it over the Kasumi DLC. :hmm: Also this game is about the human's story in this universe, so if anything the Kasumi DLC and lore is more important than this.
 
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Darkdrium

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Even if there is a whole planet of Protheans still surviving somehow after all these years, and that the standard edition lets you experience all the lore and story on that planet, the fact is this is a character of the most important species in the entire Mass Effect Universe and he can join you if you pay a premium.

You are telling me that they will intentionally gimp the character development for this guy and his special mission's storyline, so no one should worry about it. Bioware characters are never important or well developed, huh?

I am telling you that if they do that, it sends the wrong message. It basically says fuck you to everyone who buys the CE for the special mission with this guy. By definition he's supposed to be important, being a Prothean and all. Well, that's according to the storyline if they don't butcher it in some way. That's what people getting the CE are expecting. If they make him unimportant as they say he is, why get the CE? In fact why even propose him at all if all it's gonna do is massacre the Prothean mythos in some way.
However, if he is important, it's wrong as well to make him a premium because it means that anyone who doesn't pony up misses out on an important mission and character in the game. This has huge consequences I shouldn't have to spell out.

In both cases, I think it's a horrible situation.

You are forgetting that there was a similar outburst with the Kasumi DLC, and in fact I've never even bought that one. Yes, I feel like I missed out on something important, and I'd say I'm a little bitter about it. You can't criticize me for stuff you don't know about.
 

SleepyHe4d

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You are telling me that they will intentionally gimp the character development for this guy and his special mission's storyline, so no one should worry about it. Bioware characters are never important or well developed, huh?

Not saying that, just that one Prothean doesn't generalize a whole, massive, galaxy spread species. You will probably be able to experience their lore and story in relation to ME3's main story from a large variety of places (or at least a different source than the extra mission). How is missing out on one "being" have to be a huge main story piece of content? Protheans are a (mostly?) exterminated race, what does that have to do with the main story of ME3, which is humans defending Earth from the Reapers. You think Earth is the only place the Reapers are invading? Shepard can't be everywhere at once. :p

Yes, I feel like I missed out on something important, and I'd say I'm a little bitter about it. You can't criticize me for stuff you don't know about.

Was criticizing the video and that standpoint, and if you did care about the Kasumi thing, well that's good and I agree, but that has to do with DLC. DLC is bad. :lol: You didn't miss out on ME2's main story though, and the same will (very likely) be for this content.
 
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dragonfliet

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Apr 24, 2006
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I don't really understand where you're coming from at all since you just contradicted yourself. You like DLC and bite sized pieces of content, you liked the Kasumi DLC (which also added a character), but you're against this?

It's an optional piece of content, just like the Kasumi DLC. Are you against it cause its day 1 DLC? Well that's the nature of DLC (greed), which you said you like, so you should have accepted that possibility.

Let me better explain myself then:

1) I have no problem with DLC in general. It is nice to get a steady stream of content. Expansion packs are good too, but I don't really care for one over the other.

2) I enjoyed the Kasumi DLC. Even though it was a little annoying that a character you could pick up was released so long after the game (meaning that the only way to FULLY use her was to replay the entire game), it was a set of missions that you didn't NEED to replay the entire game for. You could simply do her missions and sign off. She didn't change the story of the game at all, she didn't alter the stakes: she was simply a person who had an interesting little side story.

3) The nature of DLC isn't greed, unless we're going to assume that the nature of all production is greed. In other words, while wanting money certainly plays into all of the aspects, making good things that people give you money for isn't a necessarily greedy thing.

4) My problem with the DLC is that it is going to be important to the story. You have a squad member who is fighting the species that ERADICATED all of its kind from the universe. There are going to be revelations about the nature of the Protheans/Reapers that we have been interested in, there is going to be information about fighting them and there is going to be a way it all ties together. This is thematically in line with the game and is a sort of subplot that just makes sense. This isn't something like Kasumi, where it is all off to the side, thievery and whatnot, but it is a squadmember very specifically, personally and thematically tied to the major narrative action. Will the game be ruined without the DLC? No. But there are certainly going to be a LOT missed. This is frustrating on its own, but seeing how far back this content was planned and IS PART of the Collector's Edition they were selling a year ago, to argue that this is extra content, extraneous, that it was off the cuff, that it was done in the certification time (whether or not it was finished then, it was always planned for launch and was a selling point a significant time ago) seems completely self-deluding.

If I'm wrong and the Prothean member doesn't matter at all, doesn't affect the thread of the main story, doesn't reveal any answers, well then, the people who didn't shell out the extra $10 didn't get screwed over--but the content was poorly created.

It isn't the existence of DLC that bothers me, it is when it is used to do things that are simply to milk the consumer, especially when they're disadvantaged if they don't go along with it, that gets my hackles up.
 

Capt.Toilet

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"It takes about 3 months from 'content complete' to bug-fix, certify, manufacture, and ship game discs," he tweeted. "In that time we work on DLC... On [Mass Effect 3], content creators completed the game in January and moved onto the From Ashes DLC, free with the [Collector's Edition] or you can buy separately."

From the Kotaku link here

http://kotaku.com/5887626/mass-effect-3-dlc-triggers-fan-outrage-bioware-response

This tells me that they KNEW they were going to have this included. If they moved straight away to From Ashes, they very well could have added it to the flipping main portion. This is unacceptable I am sorry.
 

Sir_Brizz

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Agree on the DLC part, which is why I said, hate it because it's DLC. Sure, DLC can be "fair" if it's priced good, but that goes against the nature of DLC (greed), so when does that happen? :lol: Even then, personally, I would hate the DLC anyways.
But it DOEs happen. Secert Armory of General Knoxx for example was priced just right. I agree that more times than not it is overpriced, but there are some pieces of content that buck the trend.
I see what you mean on the Kasumi DLC and not being able to complete it after the game, but that was probably just poor planning. It's easy to add stuff onto a linear game, but throwing in random missions in open ended games, what would you suggest? The lore of the Kasumi DLC wouldn't quite fit if you could do it after you finished the main quest, which is the whole reason you collected the team members. :p Meh.
I'm not really going to disagree with this point. I like the Kasumi content just fine and the Liara mission is good as well, however the content just doesn't work given the timeline. They needed to figure out a better way to integrate the content with the game when pretty much everyone had finished the main storyline by the time the content came out. If they can't do that, they need to think of different content. The only reason it works for Zaeed is because he was available for free on day one. Kasumi still costs $10 or $15 and it's likely that a large portion of ME2 players missed out on the content entirely even to this day. They made up the lore on their own timeline. They can make it fit however they want.
So all that is fine and good (I mean shitty and bad), but that's not what the guy in the main video was ranting on about, which is the DLCs content. There's no way anyone can win an argument about something they haven't even played or experienced yet, which is what main theme of that guys rant was about, which to me makes him look extremely dumb. <---(This sentence was the point of my first post, so focus on that if you disagree)
In essence, though, that is EXACTLY what he is saying. You CAN comment on the content, because, as dragonfliet points out, the character is part of a race that has been at the core of the plot since the very beginning. Also, they mentioned a mission for that character which means that there will absolutely be some nuances missed if you don't have the content. That is NOT GOOD no matter how you look at it. Regardless of the price tag, the fact that there is any barrier to entry for content that is so brazenly and solidly attached to one of the main themes in the plot of the game is absolutely horrible. By itself it is a huge middle finger to every gamer everywhere, even the ones who bought the CE, saying that "We don't give a crap about your experience in this game, we just want to get paid and paid and paid and paid and.........." It is and should be the ultimate offense.

I won't act like Bioware is the only company to ever do this, but, to be fair, the only examples I can think of are EA games.
 

DarkED

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Mar 19, 2006
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Right behind you.
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See, everyone was bashing this thread on page one, but now you're all going "DarkED was kinda right."

:D

The problem with DLC for me, as a gamer, is that I probably make less money that the majority of you do, and the majority of other gamers in the US and UK. It's been that way for years. I'm self-employed now but don't make much yet, and even when I was a network engineer I barely scraped by. I don't EVER have money to spend on videogames.

I took a chunk out of an insurance settlement where someone rear-ended me to build my current gaming rig. I don't own any consoles anymore because I had to sell those off years ago to pay bills, and I didn't eat much one week so I could buy Mass Effect 2 instead. Imagine my disappointment at that game. While those might have been stupid decisions to make, it's just what I have to do to be able to play videogames these days. (As a side note, that's also why I "try before I buy" a lot these days. It may not be ethical, but it's the only good way I have to figure out which games are worth buying.)

When I already have to pay a ton of money for a new game, and then have to pay even more money for the complete experience, it gets to a point where I have to say "Well... I need to replace a headlight with that extra $20 so I just won't get to play that piece of the game" or "I need to buy / replace a piece of equipment so I can't buy any games at all." It happens all the time, it happened with pretty much all of the Dragon Age: Origins DLC. I never got DA2 because I couldn't afford it (but to be honest, it seems like I kinda dodged a bullet on that one according to the reviews.) There's a list of games I want to play that is so long it'd take me an hour to type them all.

I'm not trying to bitch and I'm not trying to garner sympathy. But it's getting to a point where gaming is something I can't afford to do anymore, or I have to accept getting half of the experience everyone else is getting. How bad am I supposed to let it get before I stand up and say something about it?
 
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I have never purchased DLC for any of Bioware's titles and have never felt poorer for it.

I suppose because I'm choosy about which games I actually buy and keep that the DLC I do purchase tends to be significant. Borderlands and Fallout DLCs come to mind. I admit I've dropped points on some content for Horde 2.0 in Gears3 simply because I enjoy playing the mode, but it stinks when you can remember a time when Epic used to do the mappack thing for free, simply because. The reality is that they do put effort into surprise events and holiday bonuses for this game so I won't say anything negative.
 

Sir_Brizz

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I have an easier time excusing Epic because MS is adamant about pay DLC on the Sexbox.
 

Vaskadar

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Feb 12, 2008
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Speaking of Epic and MS, wasn't there a rather extreme disagreement between them on the release of the Titan Map Pack for UT3? To my knowledge, it was never released on the Xbox.
 

Darkdrium

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UT3 on Xbox 360 was released with exclusive content, later added to the PC and PS3 version with the Titan pack alongside new content. To this date, the Xbox 360 version lacks this new Titan pack exclusive content because of the fact that it can't be put in for free.
 

Sir_Brizz

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So spoiler free synopsis of the Prothean mission have come out. All reporting that it contains a boatload of backstory and information about the Protheans.

Should have been in the game...