Spider Mines [trap]

Plutonia_Experi said:

Ahah, i remember a mutator in UT2004 that allowed you to link your spider mines...inflating them !
You could get a spider mine big as a truck with a massive damage...
And you could even ride on it !!!!

Oh, i wished so badly to find it in the retail UT3

Click to expand...

SpiderSteroids mut

Yeap, and that one was from CBP2v1 by AngelMapper.

Oh yeahh, please do it for UT3 !!!!





BTW I'd like the possibility to put 2 spidermines deployables on Manta wings. Why did they remove it?
I miss the Manta-bomber

I'd say same reason they removed MantaRuns in UT3; Epic listened to the whiners instead of the players

Plutonia_Experi said:

Who got a Godlike with spider mines? I wouldn't believe it even if I saw a video !

Click to expand...

EXCUSE ME? I'VE SEEN PEOPLE ON MASSACRES MASSACRES!! ffs

Anyways, to be really honest i don't know what the hell was epic thinking when they designed these spider mines. I can't really believe that a single spider mine deals 95 points of damage when it runs up to my face, seriously, get real. I find all the other deployables quite important and useful, they can be strategically placed and really change the battle in a couple minutes (mostly warfare), but spider mines are downright ridiculous

Molgan said:

In my book (and many others it seems) UT3 VCTF and WAR are total failures.

Click to expand...

What a shame, really,

Kyllian said:

I'd say same reason they removed MantaRuns in UT3; Epic listened to the whiners instead of the players

Click to expand...

My friend, I've been down this path of conversation before. While I respect you, I think it's unfortunate that you feel that way. And since I know you to be a person who can concentrate well enough to read a moderately lengthy reply... I will.

That statement seems to imply that "the players" were a group of folks during the UT2004 VCTF era who's opinions were somehow more valid, than another group of players during that era, who chose not to play VCTF online. I beg to differ. In a big way.

If there is a fundamental element to the game play that we disagree on, you might continue to play, and I might not. Even if I'm a big-time fan of CTF, and the idea of VCTF, and even if I spent lots of time thinking about it, talking about it, maybe even helping to mod for it, maybe I still don't play _That_ version online. This does not make your opinion on the topic somehow more valid or more worthy than mine.

And hell, maybe, just maybe, there were (and still are) more players who felt that this fundamental element (combined with others) was bad enough to keep them from playing, and therefore still would not be playing it now, if it had been continued.

It's entirely possible that for the game type to grow in popularity, it simply had to make serious changes to it's core elements. And yes, maybe in doing so, it would be 'leaving behind' those who were playing the other version during UT2004. IF they felt that strongly about a particular feature, maybe so. It's also possible of course that "the players" you referred to would enjoy the newer version, but you know how people are, maybe some would refuse to accept it, but that might be the price you/we pay for the evolution of the game type.

Don't get me wrong though. I still don't think that VCTF is being properly represented in vanilla UT3. While I agree that removing the so-called Manta Runs was a good call (it is, after all, why we at Chaos chose to add the Manta Meat option to our version of CTF), I don't think the path they chose was the right way to go. Not by a long shot. Which leads us right back to the same place.

I have tried UT3's version of VCTF online, and I don't find it enjoyable enough to keep me playing. So.. here we are again. There are folks out there playing, and there are those of us who really, really want to play some form of UT-ish VCTF online, but the version out there just doesn't do it for us. Some might once again believe that just because they are playing this version online, they are somehow the 'authority' voice on the topic, and those of us not playing should not be listened to at all.

Of course they are entitled to their opinion, that's fine. But it's also possible that only listening to the folks who are playing online during a certain era (or... "the players", as you put it), would be holding back the game type from becoming something with a much larger fan base.

Even now, after 2 UT versions in a row, I still consider myself a big time lover of the concept of VCTF, and would like nothing more than to be playing it online every night - but you won't find me there. Again because of the design choices they made. And I don't think I'm all that special. I believe there are probably a lot more folks out there just like me, who would be playing it, if the game type was something completely different than what we have seen thus far.

Oh, and hey... as far as the thread topic goes .... , yeah, spider-mine traps suck. Which is why Wormbo's NoDeployables mutator is a good thing. Along with Xyx's Destroyable Deployables. Once again, good show from the modders out there. (of course, Proxies would be better than all of the above , but life's a bitch).

Ignotium said:

EXCUSE ME? I'VE SEEN PEOPLE ON MASSACRES MASSACRES!! ffs

Anyways, to be really honest i don't know what the hell was epic thinking when they designed these spider mines. I can't really believe that a single spider mine deals 95 points of damage when it runs up to my face, seriously, get real. I find all the other deployables quite important and useful, they can be strategically placed and really change the battle in a couple minutes (mostly warfare), but spider mines are downright ridiculous



What a shame, really,

Click to expand...

if the spidermine is cappible of getting massacres then it is, in effect a strategically placed deployable that changes the course of battle in a few minutes - such as you claim the other ones to do.... maybe you just need to denoobify yourself and learn how not to become part of that massacre, instead of running right into it every time you spawn.

Kyllian said:

I'd say same reason they removed MantaRuns in UT3; Epic listened to the whiners instead of the players

Click to expand...

manta runs still exsist in UT3, just have to tow instead of riding around on the wing - now it takes skill on everyones part to pull it off, instead of worthless riders being able to sit around picking their arse's while the player with actual skillz does all the work flying them around while earning 0 points for himself.

Kyllian said:

I'd say same reason they removed MantaRuns in UT3; Epic listened to the whiners instead of the players

Click to expand...

Hoverboard dude.

WildmouseX said:

if the spidermine is cappible of getting massacres then it is, in effect a strategically placed deployable that changes the course of battle in a few minutes - such as you claim the other ones to do.... maybe you just need to denoobify yourself and learn how not to become part of that massacre, instead of running right into it every time you spawn.

Click to expand...

Or. OR! the problem is that the spidermines are so inaudible and hard to spot in UT3.

In 2k4 they were slow, easy to spot with their bright teamcolors, made an easily distinguishable ticking noise, and you could stop them from spawning by killing the person using them. They were still useful (and often hated for being cheap and frustrating).
In UT3, they run faster than you to the point that even if you continously dodge backwards, the blast will harm you when you kill them. They are hard to hear and spot, and there is no way to prevent them from spawning, even if you know exactly where their nest is.

Like I've said, the biggest problem isn't how powerful they are, but how frustrating they are. We might win a match where they're being used against us, but that doesn't change that they made the match a complete headache to play, and turns us off the map or gamemode alltogether.

I think the way they had the spiders in UT2004 was way better.

WildmouseX said:

if the spidermine is cappible of getting massacres then it is, in effect a strategically placed deployable that changes the course of battle in a few minutes - such as you claim the other ones to do.... maybe you just need to denoobify yourself and learn how not to become part of that massacre, instead of running right into it every time you spawn.

Click to expand...

This is the kind of argument you are making after being the author of these?:

http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=588106&highlight=vctf-

WildmouseX said:

snipe from spawn to spawn - now that's fun.

Click to expand...

So you're implying WE should "dennobify" ourselves when you think sniping from spawn point to spawn point is fun in a giant sandcube you are the author?

N1ghtmare said:

Hoverboard dude.

Click to expand...

The day i saw steroid induced meatheads and aliens take rockets to the face and still be stood there, but then fall on their face and lie there for 5 seconds like 18 month old babies because they were hit on a skate board, was the day i lost alot of respect for UT.

The way i thought of it when they first banged on about them was that if you are hit you just go back to running on foot for awhile. while the board is disabled for umpteen seconds or so, getting knocked on the floor to be a free kill is more then insulting, and it feels like a hollow frag for killing someone lamed on the floor also.

Like what was stated, vCTF was executed badly and more on topic so were the spider mines, in fact they aint even spiders, they only have 4 legs!

R.Flagg said:

*trimmed for space, don't need to quote all of it*

Click to expand...

I didn't intend to state their opinions were less valid, just that it isn't as difficult to counter mantaruns than the most vocal complaints claimed.
Hit the manta with the shock and there's a good chance the rider would get knocked off.
See it coming and launch an avril rocket in the direction they'll be heading, by the time they snagged it, your rocket is already at full speed and ahead of them, just lock and boom
Then there's just staying near the flag and trying to slow them down. A single shock core could stop a manta cold and since the rider is being bounced around, they can't hit as easily

It just irked me to see things from 2k4 get trimmed out because the most vocal gripes were paid attention to than player numbers. That isn't saying Epic should only listen to the veterans and "pros" but instead look at the general community*
At the time of this posting 9 out of the 13 [2k4]vCTF servers that pinged with 1+ players were 3/4 full and the rest still had 6+ players. If mantaruns were so horrible for the gametype, then wouldn't those servers barely be populated?
*Take Assault. I can find a dozen populated AS servers at nearly any time of the day, with at least half of those running "normal" maps. The rest are Trials, Constructor or dedicated to racing maps(which I still kinda put under 'normal' maps). And now AS is missing from UT3 completely(WAR =/= AS with cores)

I remember a server last year that edited all their maps to include a manta-blocking volume around the flags. I don't think it lasted more than 3 months because of such

I'm not throwing a fit that mantaruns are gone, just that the replacement is a bit of a disappointment. If you could survive a few hits or take like 25/50 damage before you fell off, my opinion would be quite different.

Then there's the fact that Epic removed the ability to carry the orb/flag in wheeled vehicles when early vids showed they intended it from the start but for some reason changed their minds. Hell, the setting is still in the vehicle code and Xyx on the Epic forums even coded up a quick mut to restore that

WildmouseX said:

manta runs still exsist in UT3, just have to tow instead of riding around on the wing - now it takes skill on everyones part to pull it off, instead of worthless riders being able to sit around picking their arse's while the player with actual skillz does all the work flying them around while earning 0 points for himself.

Click to expand...

MantaRuns were never that easy unless half of the opposing team never encountered one before
Yes the carriers sat there, but they were also trying to defend their driver. They were trying to knock around players shooting with shock/lg/mini and even trying to shoot down the occasional AVRiL rocket

N1ghtmare said:

Hoverboard dude.

Click to expand...

Of which 1 point of damage will faceplant you, make you drop the flag and leave you as an easy target for other shots
In 2k4 yes you could get knocked off the manta, but you still had a chance to defend yourself when you did and if you were under fire, you'd have as much chance of quickly getting back on that wing as you would getting on your hoverboard

If the Manta pilot has any smarts at all he/she will probably defend you while you grab the flag. If you are overwhelmed, then the opposing team must be awarded with a returned flag because they have good coordination and spotted the manta run.

This way, however, it is balanced. Even if you hit a guy in UT2004 with a shock to knock him off, hell get back on the manta and out of your sight. It was a cheap tactic that has now been balanced that it takes a little more coordination than two guys and manta.

I don't see what your complaining about. If you'd like you can Raptor run or cicada run or scorpion run or even hellbender run now. What? Can't stand the fact that you cannot easily score a flag anymore? Well... too bad!

N1ghtmare said:

This way, however, it is balanced. Even if you hit a guy in UT2004 with a shock to knock him off, hell get back on the manta and out of your sight. It was a cheap tactic that has now been balanced that it takes a little more coordination than two guys and manta.

Click to expand...

Well most times i knocked the guy off a manta with the LG he either fell to his death and the flag auto returns or the manta driver has no idea that his passenger is missing and drives away, leaving me to duel it out with the carrier. And if you managed to hit the carrier off the manta, how does he get magicly get back on the manta and fly away. It was awkward to get on the wing most times, and the manta has to stay static to let him on, just shoot the manta as it knocks it about making it even harder for the carrier, plus it only take about 5 shots to take one down, not like the 9 shot it takes now, and its way harder to make contact with them.

And i rarely grapple on vehicles anyway, for one you can get lamed and two, the vehicle knocks you about so much that you lose alot of health in the process, making it **** for fast travel because you are beaten to death before your even near a combat area, what use is attempting to cap a flag with 10 hp after that smooth manta ride to the oppositions base. The whole concept is flawed when you look at it from thoughs perspectives in any game mode. Its just another way of making the infantry man even ****ter, and making it the only alternative to just play in vehicles.

In UT2004 it was kinda obvious when a guy directly in your view gets knocked off your wing. UT3 can be a bit more tricky because the cord isn't always in view. But if your pilot is decent and understands that your working together for a manta run not because you just hitchhiked a ride then the pilot should be a bit more careful not to hit any walls. And I've had a plenty good pilots.

Look, the grapple was put in there for people who didn't get a ride because all the vehicles were taken. And when programming it they figured that physics will apply if the vehicle takes a sharp turn that the hoverboard would go swinging. Its not some large rediculous conspiracy on Epic's part to make footsoliders weaker. Even then, the footsoldier's overpoweredness in UT2004 made many vehicles useless. And if you are decent enough skill you can still severely damage most vehicles in UT3 before they take you out. Its kinda logical that a vehicle would beat any footsoldier. While it may take very skilled players to take out vehicles, any person can do considerable damage before they get run over or blown away. Notice how vehicles never last long? If the enemy team puts any effort into taking out a vehicle, it us usually destroyed.

N1ghtmare said:

And when programming it they figured that physics will apply if the vehicle takes a sharp turn that the hoverboard would go swinging.

Click to expand...

Basic stabalization should of gone here, making the grappler auto anticipate sudden movements

N1ghtmare said:

Its not some large rediculous conspiracy on Epic's part to make footsoliders weaker.

Click to expand...

Then why are the weapons now inaffective agaisnt vehicles accept in mass. Vehicles are now more amoured, more agile, more faster and more deadlier. Foot soilders are less agile and more effected to damage.

N1ghtmare said:

Its kinda logical that a vehicle would beat any footsoldier.

Click to expand...

Dont underestimate the common foot soilder, one armed with a javalin missile can defeat any tank these days. Vehicles have more weakness' then you think, why shouldnt footsoilder have the upper hand in certain circumstances in UT.

N1ghtmare said:

While it may take very skilled players to take out vehicles, any person can do considerable damage before they get run over or blown away. Notice how vehicles never last long? If the enemy team puts any effort into taking out a vehicle, it us usually destroyed.

Click to expand...

You dont get points in damaging a vehicle, and there is no benafit in doing so, since they respawn as soon as you destroy them near enough. meanwhile the guy driving it has raked in 5 or 6 kills and waits say 10 seconds to get another 5 or 6

Dogger said:

Basic stabalization should of gone here, making the grappler auto anticipate sudden movements

Click to expand...

Wha?

Dogger said:

Then why are the weapons now inaffective agaisnt vehicles accept in mass. Vehicles are now more amoured, more agile, more faster and more deadlier. Foot soilders are less agile and more effected to damage.

Click to expand...

They aren't. Lets see. Bio secondary does quite some damage, Shock combo is very effective (let alon the hitscan aspect itself). Link does surprisingly a lot of damage. Stinger primary works well against air while secondary works well against ground. Flak cannon can stop a manta in its tracks with the right timing. I think the rocket launcher speaks for itself...and if you have the Sniper Rifle wel lthen pull out another weapon.

Dogger said:

Dont underestimate the common foot soilder, one armed with a javalin missile can defeat any tank these days. Vehicles have more weakness' then you think, why shouldnt footsoilder have the upper hand in certain circumstances in UT.

Click to expand...

If a guy has an AVRiL then they will do tremendous damage to most vehicles. But do you really think it would be interesting if a goliath or darkwalker was taken out in one hit? Really?

Dogger said:

You dont get points in damaging a vehicle, and there is no benafit in doing so, since they respawn as soon as you destroy them near enough. meanwhile the guy driving it has raked in 5 or 6 kills and waits say 10 seconds to get another 5 or 6

Click to expand...

There is a high benefit. As in, the next person they encounter will likely finish them off. And unless you have a tank (or know what your doing) then getting "5 or 6" kills (assuming you don;t run into other vehicles) is somewhat hard.

Think for a minute man. Does it seem logical that one man > any vehicle? And I'm thinking on terms of the most basic vehicles.

Even with all the "upgrades" it isn't that hard to take out a scorpion or a manta or a viper or a scavenger on your own. All it takes is a bit of thinking, timing, and dodging around obstacles. Try putting an large rock or a column between you and a manta. Works wonders.

N1ghtmare said:

They aren't. Lets see. Bio secondary does quite some damage, Shock combo is very effective (let alon the hitscan aspect itself).....

Click to expand...

As a primary shock user myself i can honestly say that shock combo'ing a vehicle is a waste of time, even on mantas its 30% chance, that 240 damage just doesnt get translated. the only weapon that does 100% damage potential to a vehicle is the flack cannon.

N1ghtmare said:

If a guy has an AVRiL then they will do tremendous damage to most vehicles. But do you really think it would be interesting if a goliath or darkwalker was taken out in one hit? Really?

Click to expand...

The AVRiL should be renamed to AWRiL, as it seems to think walls are a bigger threat. and you cant just fire and not lock on because the weapon doesnt like that, as it has this huge lock on radious, it will lock on if you want to or not, it also likes to pick the wrong target and give you no question and what to aim at because AVRiL knows best. Im not saying that all vehicles should be taken out with one hit, im more like saying wheres the real anti vehicle weapons in the game. The AVRiL is more of an AA weapon, there should be a equivalent weapon thats dumb firing that has alot more speed.

N1ghtmare said:

There is a high benefit. As in, the next person they encounter will likely finish them off. And unless you have a tank (or know what your doing) then getting "5 or 6" kills (assuming you don;t run into other vehicles) is somewhat hard.

Think for a minute man. Does it seem logical that one man > any vehicle? And I'm thinking on terms of the most basic vehicles.

Click to expand...

When a one man hellbender is comming my way i better GTFO or eat **** and die, you can do nowhere near the ideal damage result at all to that party bus while it whirls in circles raping and honking its way to victory, and yes it does seem logical for one man to be greater then a vehicle in at least one situation, even stealth has been robbed from the common foot soilder.

N1ghtmare said:

Even with all the "upgrades" it isn't that hard to take out a scorpion or a manta or a viper or a scavenger on your own. All it takes is a bit of thinking, timing, and dodging around obstacles. Try putting an large rock or a column between you and a manta. Works wonders.

Click to expand...

Like the columns in suspence, noclipping fun that never ends. I dont want to be running around rocks all day, and mantas dont really bother me if i have my shock and have spotted them already, even when they are close to me i can pretty much stay alive way longer then anyone ive seen using the same weapon loadouts, its just when a scorpion comes by and blows up 20 meters away and kills you, while the driver slowly decends down to earth with no 2k4 floaty looking gravity at all.