If Quake was done today

[Capt.Toilet]

Originally Posted by DeathBooger

Not really, considering back then designers had to INVENT THEIR OWN GOD DAMN GAME ENGINE and software now days makes game creation rather easy. Time consuming due to the level of detail yes, but easy. Face it, the industry is just lazy and looking to make easy money now, just like the film industry. I haven't seen a new IP that is an original idea from one of those "AAA studios" in forever.

Yeah they are lazy, but at the same time look at all the new IP's that have come out and just simply crashed. Indie devs seem to be the only ones out there that are taking risks and enjoying the success from it. I would guess this is partly to do with costs. Take a risk with 100m dollar budget(stupid anyway as a game should not cost that much to make) or risk 80k and make that cost up in a few thousand units?

[DarkED]

Originally Posted by Kantham

Not to bash on DayZ, but L4D is more inventive; It has more gameplay elements, more enemy types and variety and the list goes on. DayZ devs made a zombie mod out of a sandbox game and it totally worked. It worked because no one made a game like this before, I doubt it worked because someone sat down for days trying to design the most inventive game to date.

Calling Left 4 Dead a zombie apocalypse survival horror simulator isn't accurate; it just seems that way because it has zombies and a first-person perspective in it. It's more of a co-op class-based strategic combat arcade shooter. Kinda like Team Fortress or something similar, but with zombies. This kind of game had been done before (minus zombies) and as a result I don't consider L4D to be all that inventive. I also didn't understand all the hype about it as I didn't think it was all that amazing, but whatever.

In any case, Left 4 Dead has been out for nearly four years now, whereas DayZ (which is nothing like L4D minus the zombies, thankfully) has only been around for a few months. In my opinion, DayZ is more inventive because it places you in a sandbox where any kind of conflict is possible and cooperation is not assured. In DayZ, the zombies are a manageable threat; the real threat is other survivors. I can't remember playing a game based on these concepts that is as realistic and gritty as DayZ is.

[Gir]

Originally Posted by DarkED

I can't remember playing a game based on these concepts that is as realistic and gritty as DayZ is.

Minus the fact that it isn't an online game, Fallout 3 with Wanderers Edition installed on it kinda gets you there too. I played it for a long time and it left me with a desire for some kind of commercial product rather than a mod. For an alpha, DayZ is already a much more realistic shooter / survival experience than F3:WE, so I personally can't wait to see the final product.

[Sjosz]

Originally Posted by DeathBooger

Not really, considering back then designers had to INVENT THEIR OWN GOD DAMN GAME ENGINE

You sure tell me with your size 7 font man. And designers didn't have to invent their own god damn game engine, it was programmed like any engine programmed today. I don't see how this factors into the topic at hand.

and software now days makes game creation rather easy. Time consuming due to the level of detail yes, but easy.

Because engine usability has anything to do with how complex level designs get.

Face it, the industry is just lazy and looking to make easy money now, just like the film industry. I haven't seen a new IP that is an original idea from one of those "AAA studios" in forever.

Oh please. There has been a shift away from very complex layouts in levels, because back in the Doom days, that is literally all there was to games. Figure out where the coloured keys are, find their respective doors, get to the end. Why bother with narrative, storytelling through environment, characters, exposition, and all that jazz? We can just make complex layouts.

Nowadays the aforementioned is an actual part of game development rather than an afterthought (where I work, anyway), and the resulting levels are no less complex, they're just complex in different ways than a bunch of extra rooms and corridors. I don't know about you, but I'll take all of those complexities over a bigger level to explore any day.

Your statement and say that the industry is in it for the easy money is patent nonsense, not to mention generalizing. I go to work everyday with passionate folks, and we don't EVER go into an idea with "yeah but this isn't the easy way out you guys".

As an aside, there's a broader topic here with trends in the industry based on consumer behaviour. There are constant changes happening to technology, the way people play games, and how much time the average gamer (which is now 33 years old apparently) has to play games. It just seems to me that posting ironic funny pictures about "simplifying" level design is fairly undeserved.

[DarkED]

Originally Posted by Gir

Minus the fact that it isn't an online game, Fallout 3 with Wanderers Edition installed on it kinda gets you there too. I played it for a long time and it left me with a desire for a some kind of commercial product rather than a mod. For an alpha, DayZ is already a much more realistic shooter / survival experience than F3:WE, so I personally can't wait to see the final product.

I tried that; it made the game so difficult I couldn't get far I think I didn't install it correctly though, and I had a ton of other mods on top of it.

I also tried Project Nevada (I think it's by the same team that made F3:WE) for New Vegas and it seems like they found a much better balance of realism and fun.

[Gir]

Originally Posted by DarkED

I tried that; it made the game so difficult I couldn't get far I think I didn't install it correctly though, and I had a ton of other mods on top of it.

There is a setting somewhere in FWE that lets you set the time scale. I always go for real-time, since I don't see why the faster passing of time would result in better gameplay. With that I choose the lowest possible, ultra rare drop-rates for food, chems and ammo. I also enable the setting that makes a random selection of loot in a cell disappear permanently upon loading it for the first time, to further decrease the amount of total loot & make each playthrough more unique. Then I make it so cells and zones don't respawn for 14 days. In my experience, this is the closest, balanced way to play the mod. Food is rare, but you have enough time to find some. Every game is highly stealth oriented, Silenced guns are top priority.

The Pit DLC actually becomes almost impossibly hard due to all the radiation everywhere & radaway becoming super rare with these settings. In particular the pit fights become more difficult than any boss fight in the game, because it sometimes takes less than twenty seconds for you to die of radiation poisoning with FWE's 'tough' radiation settings. Lopping grenades in all directions is the only quick enough solution here. VATS mode and the kill cams take too much time to play out.

I somehow ended up writing much more about it than I intended. Anyhow, I haven't tried Project Nevada yet as I haven't purchased New Vegas (got caught up in other games at the time). But I will at some point get it + all the expansions for a bargain bin deal, I'm sure. I like what they have done with cybernetics in Project Nevada, pretty versatile stuff.

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

Originally Posted by Vaskadar

To be fair, Ed, I doubt JSR was saying that B&W2 was original in concept, but he was more likely poking fun at Kantham's word usage errors.

you're right.

sorry Ed
I was only making fun of Kantham's use of the word "creationism."

I wasn't making a statement about Black and White.

[Kantham]

Originally Posted by DarkED

In any case, Left 4 Dead has been out for nearly four years now, whereas DayZ (which is nothing like L4D minus the zombies, thankfully) has only been around for a few months. In my opinion, DayZ is more inventive because it places you in a sandbox where any kind of conflict is possible and cooperation is not assured. In DayZ, the zombies are a manageable threat; the real threat is other survivors. I can't remember playing a game based on these concepts that is as realistic and gritty as DayZ is.

They need to go up a long road before they actually have something impressive. Since you mentioned "It is the most creative game recently" I had to point out it still quite isn't there YET.

Everything you mentioned is what gives the mod success, and I agree on that.

Fear not, if they make something impressive I'll be buying their stand-alone.