Consoles or PCs?

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

What you think?

  • PC forever!! Consoles are just for those who don't even know how powerful PC's are.

    Votes: 22 45.8%
  • Consoles!! Specialized equipment is ALWAYS better.

    Votes: 6 12.5%
  • I don't care.

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Both! Specialization is for insects!

    Votes: 17 35.4%

  • Total voters
    48

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
Originally posted by "Sp!ke":
. YOU ignored the fact that those screens you showed me were PREVIEWS. Previews doesnt = Final product, it dosnt even prove that it is a console doing the rendering. I tried a comparison with a very similar game that existet on BOTH formats, but you ignored them and said; "uhh, well tothegame cant make screenies.." :rolleyes:
First of all, the screens YOU posted of PlanetSide were previews as well. Try not to cast stones when your living in a glass house.

Secondly, if you truly believe that previews are no indication of the final product, then I suggest you go read the reviews of Ace Combat 4, Devil May Cry, or Final Fantasy X. You might notice that the early screenshots actually look worse than those taken after the game's release. Explain that one.

Third, you obviously know next to nothing about game development. Developers don't even code their games on a PC, much less run them on one. Ever heard of a development kit? It provides developers with everything they need to code and run their games on the console. And as for PCs doing the rendering, I know for a fact that the screenshots of Outcast 2 are taken directly from the S-Video output of a PS2, as the developers themselves stated. I don't have hard facts to back up the rest of the titles, since most developers usually don't state the obvious, but it's generally assumed that console screenshots are taken from console games.

Finally, are you trying to tell me that ToTheGames has more accurate screenshots of FIFA 2002 than EA SPORTS, the company developing and publishing the game? :rolleyes:

Like I said, you're reaching.

2. There is more variety on PC, when I come home then you can get the exact stats on what category this years 100 best pc games were.
PS2 variety: GEI ANIME, beat em up, racing and thats it...
Well, let's see, just off the top of my head, there are action, adventure, fighting, platform, puzzle, RPG, racing, simulation, sports, and strategy games on consoles. That's a fair bit more than GEI ANIME, beat em up, and racing, wouldn't you say? Of course, I could say the same for PCs, as I'm sure you'll find at least one game in each genre in existence, so I guess that kind of voids the entire argument, doesn't it?

3. Well the nice thing with a PC is that you can actually have more and better gadgets attached to it. I CAN have keyboard/mouse when I feel like it, you cant.
Youre restricted to gamepad, joystick and wheel. I wouldnt want to use any of those to play for ex: Homeworld...
As you yourself have already stated, you can buy keyboards and mice for consoles, so... yes, I can have a keyboard and mouse whenever I feel like it, just like I can have a flight stick whenever I feel like it, and a steering wheel, and a gamepad, and a light gun, and a dance mat, and a pair of maracas.

4.Yes its a matter of opinion, but its a commonly shared one.
Console games tend to last shorter then Pc games.
I know it wasnt what I really said, but it was what I was thinking of.
Oh really? I could name quite a few PC titles that lasted me less than 10 hours, just like I could name a number of console titles that lasted me more than 60. It may be a commonly shared opinion among PC game players that PC games are better than console games, but it's also a commonly shared opinion among console game players that conslole games are better than PC games. Like I said, it proves nothing.

5. Where did I write "modem"? i said Multiplayer, not modem(and was thinking of LANs since thats were I play MP). But still; you can have a Lag-less MP experience on a DSL connection and its becoming more and more common as well...
(before you make a comment like "I cant read you mind!", I know but I didnt have much time to write...)
First of all, I know it's trivial, but don't confuse "low lag" with "lag free". There will always be lag over a modem of any sort, just like, despite what Microsoft may claim, there will always be load times on consoles. It may be reduced, but it's still present.

And as for LAN connections, ever heard of an iLink cable? Same thing.

Originally posted by STW Max Sterling:
Frankly, i don't see the whole point of this. "My" system is better than "yours".
This isn't a "my system is better than yours" debate. It's a "consoles are better than PCs for gaming" debate, as the topic of this thread indicates. Sp!ke here seems to think that non-standard, non-specialized PCs are better for gaming than standardized, specialized consoles which are designed to do nothing but. If he took into account everything that a PC could do (word processing, graphical editing, etc), I might be tempted to admit that PCs are a better buy than consoles, but claiming that a $1500 PC is better specifically for gaming than a $300 console that can do everything a top-of-the-line PC can do and more is just ludicrous.

-Keiichi
 
Last edited:
&

"Sp!ke"

Guest
Yes, the pictures of Planetside were also from previews, but I serioulsy dont think that they made a console version just to take the screens...sometimes you make me laugh:rolleyes:

"Secondly, if you truly believe that previews are no indication of the final product, then I suggest you go read the reviews of Ace Combat 4, Devil May Cry, or Final Fantasy X. You might notice that the early screenshots actually look worse than those taken after the game's release. Explain that one."

I think they all look like s<i></i>hit, and I saw a comercial on TV 5mins ago with lotus challenge in it, it was a pretty good way to see it since you could clearly see how bad it was when in motion(the blurriness, lo-res, jagged edges)

And you still belive EA are willing to show you there real time pics?
I honestly belive that an un-biased source like Tothegame will use in-game pics...

And on 2: There is more "freedom" for the developer in making games for the PC, mainly because Sony wants a royalty fee so the game HAS to be a success, or the developer is ****ed, therfore the publisher would never take risks like publishing something completly new and innovative(thats why there is a bit of sequels on the PS2 *ffxi*...)

"Oh really? I could name quite a few PC titles that lasted me less than 10 hours, just like I could name a number of console titles that lasted me more than 60. It may be a commonly shared opinion among PC game players that PC games are better than console games, but it's also a commonly shared opinion among console game players that conslole games are better than PC games. Like I said, it proves nothing."

Well Baldurs Gate II lastet for something like 300+ hours and because of multiplayer capabilities then most new games can last for months, or even years on the PC(How old is Half-Life, and how many still play its mods....)

And you can have keyboard and mice for consoles, but the one I tried (dreamcast keyboard) was incompatible with games..
:rolleyes:

"remind you Deus Ex, which isn't exactly a low-machine-power game"
Deus Ex worked without a glich on my LAN machine(p3 450, Voodoo 2!)

Please just give up claiming that a PS2 on a tv screen looks better then a high-res monitor with many times the PS2s processing power to back it up...:rolleyes:

And honestly all I have really given a **** about during this discussion is that you claim that a small piece of **** machine with a lo-res tv screen can display better graphics then a "state of the art" PC, with more procesing power then a PS3 could ever dream about...

And I cant really convince you that Pc games are more entertaining (despite them being cheaper and more value for money thanks to mods and other things) then console games, especially since it all comes down to what YOU think of the games....;)

And this is not ment as being rude or anything but isnt it "grasping" or something like that instead of "reaching"?
It sounded a bit odd, and Iam seriously curious.

And derailer: Whats next?! Apperently Final fantasy 11!!, DOA 3, Ace of Combat 4!, Oucast 2, Smugglers run 2, metal gear 2...*"I see sequels"*:D
And Planetside and Galaxies arent sequels at least...;)

"iLink cable" Never heard of it, how many games support it? 2?

And one thing I was wondering about with Smugglers Run 2.
Can you jump out of youre veichle and start shooting instead of driving? Can you take it to the skies with a helicopter or plane?
Can you play vs 16 of your friends? Remember that I asked for a game with the equal amount of features as well as better graphics...
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
0
0
How about this :
- show me any pc-game that can match Grand Tourismo 3 in graphics ...
I've yet to see any drivinggame that can integrate the cars & tracks so well in a game.

PC-games can afford to be buggy ... as you can always patch the game thanks to the wonders of the internet ...

No 'innovative' games on the Consoles because of 'qualitycontrol' by Sony ? I'd say "Freakout"(PS2) qualifies as a risky game ...

Just look at pc-games : there might not be 'qualitycontrol', but some companies still produce the same titles over and over again ... ( Tombraider #, Ultima #, any EA-sports title, any F1-game, Quake #, Flightsimulator #### ...)

Unreal Tournament on the DC looks a lot better than that same resolution on the PC ...

Then there is the instant access to games.
You need to wait at least half a minute before your pc runs.
First you need to spend a few minutes installing & tweaking the game unless your system is a lot faster than the 'recommended' settings and even than you need to make sure every option is available ...

For a console-game I just drop the disc in the drive and I can play within seconds. There's no real need for a manual, because there are only so many buttons to press.
 

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
Originally posted by "Sp!ke":
Yes, the pictures of Planetside were also from previews, but I serioulsy dont think that they made a console version just to take the screens...sometimes you make me laugh :rolleyes:
What in the fuck are you talking about? :con:

And you still belive EA are willing to show you there real time pics?
I honestly belive that an un-biased source like Tothegame will use in-game pics...
Unless you believe that EA would willingly place pre-rendered or non-PS2 screenshots in their specifically in-game PS2 image gallery, then... yes.

Please just give up claiming that a PS2 on a tv screen looks better then a high-res monitor with many times the PS2s processing power to back it up...
Okay, first of all, STW Max Sterling is the one who mentioned Deus Ex, not me.

Secondly, my argument has never been that a PS2 is capable of more than a PC. My argument is that consoles are capable of more than a PC. You seem to be incapable of comparing PCs with anything but the PS2. Why is that? Could it be because the PS2 is arguably the weakest of the next generation consoles, and you wouldn't stand a chance against the Xbox and GameCube? That just smacks of desperation.

You still haven't provided me with anything that matches Rogue Squadron II, Project Ego, Dead or Alive 3, or Outcast 2.

And honestly all I have really given a **** about during this discussion is that you claim that a small piece of **** machine with a lo-res tv screen can display better graphics then a "state of the art" PC, with more procesing power then a PS3 could ever dream about...
And yet you still haven't been able to sufficiently prove that your $1500 "state of the art PC with more processing power than a PS3 could ever dream about" can render scenes as detailed as even a PS2, let alone an Xbox or GameCube. :rolleyes:

And this is not ment as being rude or anything but isnt it "grasping" or something like that instead of "reaching"?
Nope. Reaching works just fine.

And derailer: Whats next?! Apperently Final fantasy 11!!, DOA 3, Ace of Combat 4!, Oucast 2, Smugglers run 2, metal gear 2...*"I see sequels"*
*cough*MechWarrior 1/2/3/4, Homeworld 1/2, Heavy Gear 1/2, Freespace 1/2, Warcraft 1/2/3, Delta Force 1/2/3, SWAT 1/2/3, Ultima 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, Aliens vs. Predator 1/2, Tribes 1/2, System Shock 1/2, Unreal 1/2, Quake 1/2/3, Independence War 1/2*cough* NOTE: And that's just out of my own collection.

Face facts. There are just as many sequels on the PC as there are on consoles.

"iLink cable" Never heard of it, how many games support it? 2?
Only practically ever 2+ player game released within the last 2-3 years.

And one thing I was wondering about with Smugglers Run 2.
Can you jump out of youre veichle and start shooting instead of driving? Can you take it to the skies with a helicopter or plane?
Can you play vs 16 of your friends? Remember that I asked for a game with the equal amount of features as well as better graphics...
Features have nothing to do with graphics. This debate is about which system is more powerful, not which one has games that let you drive multiple vehicles. If it was, I'd proudly shove Grand Theft Auto 3 in your face.

-Keiichi
 
&

&quot;Sp!ke&quot;

Guest
"What in the **** are you talking about?"
Your stupidity..:rolleyes:

"Unless you believe that EA would willingly place pre-rendered or non-PS2 screenshots in their specifically in-game PS2 image gallery, then... yes."
I HAVE SEEN FIFA ON THE PS2!! AND GUESS WHAT? IT LOOKED like **** if you compare it to the pics on Ea.com, so yes I belive EA aint telling the complete truth...:rolleyes:

"Secondly, my argument has never been that a PS2 is capable of more than a PC. My argument is that consoles are capable of more than a PC. You seem to be incapable of comparing PCs with anything but the PS2. Why is that? Could it be because the PS2 is arguably the weakest of the next generation consoles, and you wouldn't stand a chance against the Xbox and GameCube? That just smacks of desperation.
You still haven't provided me with anything that matches Rogue Squadron II, Project Ego, Dead or Alive 3, or Outcast 2."

Iam comparing with the PS2 since its the only one that is actually out! But if you want me too look into my crystal ball: 1 year from now ill be playing games on a P4 3.5ghz+, and the Xbox has a core clock speed of 800mhz(?)... :rolleyes: Yes Iam feeling really desperate now....
Games?: Halo, Outcast 2, Half-life 2, Duke 4, The italian job, Unreal 2/warfare,Republic, loose cannon, GTA3, SOF2, Homeworld 2,ballistics, Hitman 2, Star wars: Knights of the old Rep.,Team fortress 2,Thief III, Planetside, Dungeon siege, Deus ex II, Buffy the vampire slayer ;)....to name a few, and the ones that are multi format will look better then its console counter-part..

"And yet you still haven't been able to sufficiently prove that your $1500 "state of the art PC with more processing power than a PS3 could ever dream about" can render scenes as detailed as even a PS2, let alone an Xbox or GameCube."

No, I have been able to prove it, its just you ignoreing it....:rolleyes:

"Only practically ever 2+ player game released within the last 2-3 years."
Intresting, why arnt there any LAN PS2 parties then...

"Features have nothing to do with graphics. This debate is about which system is more powerful, not which one has games that let you drive multiple vehicles. If it was, I'd proudly shove Grand Theft Auto 3 in your face."

It requers memory too have such features as for example: Have the ability too switch between multiple veichels(land/air/sea)
And if you "shove GTA"in my face, then ill gladly shove the high-res PC version up yours...

"show me any pc-game that can match Grand Tourismo 3 in graphics"
Rally championship and Grand Prix 3, then youll realise what kind of **** youve been playing...

"Unreal Tournament on the DC looks a lot better than that same resolution on the PC"
Wow, really?! Well, dont play in 640x480 then...(which imo, looks better then the DC edition, which I even have 2meters away from me now in-game..)

"For a console-game I just drop the disc in the drive and I can play within seconds. There's no real need for a manual, because there are only so many buttons to press."
There isn t much need to read manuals when youve already played the 11! pre-quels....

"Then there is the instant access to games.
You need to wait at least half a minute before your pc runs.
First you need to spend a few minutes installing & tweaking the game unless your system is a lot faster than the 'recommended' settings and even than you need to make sure every option is available ..."

I may use half a minute setting the settings for how I like it, its not really a problem, I even kinda like seeing how the game looks when you change the graphic settings...but thats just me...
But consider this as well: I have changed the settings for Ofp once , and now I have played it for several moths, those few minutes were worth it vs constant ****ty graphics on the consoles

And keech were did you ge Homeworld 2 and Unreal 2 from?!
"NOTE: And that's just out of my own collection" Damn, youre a geek....

(Btw. i know my english suck more then usual today..)
 

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
"What in the **** are you talking about?"
Your stupidity..
No, seriously, what in the fuck are you talking about? Why would a PC developer make a console version of their game just to take screenshots? If you're implying that console developers make PC versions of their games just to take screenshots, then you're the one who's clueless, not to mention you obviously didn't read the paragraph up above where I explained all about development kits and how they allow developers to code and test their games on the console.

Now, let me explain to you exactly why you're argument is ridiculous. Consoles, more specifically the PS2, are specialized hardware. It's not off-the-shelf electronics that you can pick up at your local retailer. It also has custom architecture and a custom OS. Explain to me how a developer could code and run a PS2 game which utilizes the PS2 dual graphics processors, emotion engine, and custom OS, just to name a few, on a PC? They would have to specifically code it to run on a PC first, in which case, they might as well release it on the PC as well, rather than scrap all the work they've done and basically port the game over to the PS2 before releasing it.

I HAVE SEEN FIFA ON THE PS2!! AND GUESS WHAT? IT LOOKED like **** if you compare it to the pics on Ea.com, so yes I belive EA aint telling the complete truth...
Then you most likely saw it running on a crap television, in which case, it would be like me bashing a PC game because it looks like shit on a 5-year-old 7" monitor with half it's pixels burnt out.

If you truly believe that EA is falsifying their screenshots, then by all means, take it up with them.

Iam comparing with the PS2 since its the only one that is actually out! But if you want me too look into my crystal ball: 1 year from now ill be playing games on a P4 3.5ghz+, and the Xbox has a core clock speed of 800mhz(?)...
Well, in that case, you shouldn't be posting screenshots of PlanetSide. It's not out yet either. :rolleyes:

First of all, the GameCube is already available in Japan, so your hypocritical argument can't rule that out. Secondly, the Xbox and GameCube will be released in North America in roughly a week. One year indeed...

Third, you fail to take into account the Xbox's custom graphics card, which amounts to a GeForce 4, or it's custom OS. Not to mention the fact that your P4 3.5GHz CPU will probably cost more than the Xbox does as a whole.

I still haven't seen anything which compares to Rogue Squadron II, Project Ego, Dead or Alive 3, or Outcast 2. Put up or shut up.

No, I have been able to prove it, its just you ignoreing it....
Really? Then why don't you do me a favor and post it again, because I must've missed it somewhere back there.

Unless you're talking about that C3PO shot which, as I've already indicated, proves nothing but that the PC can do hi-res. But, then again, so can the Xbox, so...?

Intresting, why arnt there any LAN PS2 parties then...
There are, if you take the time to look for them. Get a couple of friends together, plug their PS2s into each other, have them bring over their televisions, and bingo: PS2 LAN party.

It requers memory too have such features as for example: Have the ability too switch between multiple veichels(land/air/sea)
And if you "shove GTA"in my face, then ill gladly shove the high-res PC version up yours...
Yes, the hi-res PC version... which is coming out more than 6 months after the PS2 version. :rolleyes:

And as for memory, if that's the case, then how do you expect me to believe that a PS2, with it's paltry 32MB of system memory, could even run a game like GTA3, with over 80 drivable vehicles and an entire living city to explore?

Features are just an indication of what the developer was willing or able to put in the game. It has virtually no bearing on a system's capabilities.

"show me any pc-game that can match Grand Tourismo 3 in graphics"
Rally championship and Grand Prix 3, then youll realise what kind of **** youve been playing...
Grand Prix 3
gp_screen016.jpg

gp_screen008.jpg


Gran Turismo 3 A-spec
granturismo3_screen061.jpg

granturismo3_screen064.jpg


Yeah, that looks better alright... :rolleyes:

And as for Rally Championship, can you elaborate? The only Rally Championship game I found at either GameSpot or IGN looked like a fucking PSX game.

"For a console-game I just drop the disc in the drive and I can play within seconds. There's no real need for a manual, because there are only so many buttons to press."
There isn t much need to read manuals when youve already played the 11! pre-quels....
It's nice to see you intelligently rebuking Max's argument. :rolleyes:

I may use half a minute setting the settings for how I like it, its not really a problem, I even kinda like seeing how the game looks when you change the graphic settings...but thats just me...
But consider this as well: I have changed the settings for Ofp once , and now I have played it for several moths, those few minutes were worth it vs constant ****ty graphics on the consoles
My PC is optimized basically as much as it can be, and it still takes it a good 30 seconds or so to boot up, then there's whatever load time starting the game entails. All in all, it typically takes anywhere from 1 1/2 to 2 minutes from the time I turn on my computer to the time I'm playing the game. With a console, I'm playing in less than 30 seconds. Of course, only anally retentive retards would use one minute of load time as a reason why consoles are superior to PCs...

I'm more concerned with the fact that, on the average, most PC users experience at least one problem getting their game started due to driver/hardware incompatibilities, bugs, low system resources, etc. With consoles, I can be assured that everything will work flawlessly and run at the desired 60fps.

And keech were did you ge Homeworld 2 and Unreal 2 from?!
"NOTE: And that's just out of my own collection" Damn, youre a geek....
Yes, every game in my collection, as in every game I own that has a sequel. I never said I owned the sequels.

This is getting tiresome. Either start making some intelligent arguments or stop arguing alltogether. I'm getting sick of wasting an hour and a half of my free time picking them apart.

-Keiichi
 
Last edited:

Hypenotist

Catharsis hypothesis
Mar 15, 2001
254
0
0
47
My 2 cents...

PC for anything fps (bang)

Console for everything else (fighting, driving, sports...)

plain and simple

At least untill you can plug a console into a broadband connection with a keyboard & mouse that is. I'd like a cheat free fps game on a console any day, llamas of the future will be hacking consoles with aimbots of some sort probably.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
0
0
// Keiichi :
that was part of my post not Max's ;)

As for Rally-games : take a look at World Rally Championship for the PS2 and compare that to Colin Mcrea 2 (I'm not sure of the spelling ). I think 'Magnetic Fields' was the company that made another Rally Championship *series* ...

I'm pretty sure that the PS2 has better looking graphics compared to the average PC screenshot of either game.

// "Sp!ke" :
Did you need to read the manual for any FPS or RTS for the PC ?
I sure as hell didn't need to, because they're pretty standard ever since Quake/C&C defined the basics.

But I did have to look at the control-setup to figure out what keys of the 101 possible I needed to press for the various tasks ...
The PS2-controller has just 8 buttons to push, so it's pretty easy to find the right key without so much as looking at the 'controller-setup screen (if there is one ...)

You could say that the disadvantage (near infinite amount of configurations) of a PC controller-setup is the advantage of the Console (with at best just a few different configurations) and vice versa.

One of the most basic advantages of any GUI-based OS has been the fact that each and every program uses the same set of keys for each command.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
0
0
Originally posted by Hypenotist
My 2 cents...

PC for anything fps (bang)

Console for everything else (fighting, driving, sports...)

plain and simple

At least untill you can plug a console into a broadband connection with a keyboard & mouse that is. I'd like a cheat free fps game on a console any day, llamas of the future will be hacking consoles with aimbots of some sort probably.
Console mutliplayer games can be hacked & cheated too.
It happened to Phantasy Star Online for the DC where an 'official' cheat-addon for the DC made it possible to cheat in PSO too ...
 

Hypenotist

Catharsis hypothesis
Mar 15, 2001
254
0
0
47
Well that sucks. I guess I can see why it can happen though with these gamesharks and all that stuff ever since the first nintendo came out there have been hardware add-ons to cheat the games. Now that things have moved online, perhaps the gameshark of the futrure will be considered an aimbot and need a cshp of it's own. But at least with a console you can drop the occurance of an onliine cheater drastically, and I doubt a company would support a product like gameshark if It gave online combatants an edge like an aimbot or wall see thru hack to it's players.

Still speaking toward the future though, when everyone has a broadband connection available like a basic phone line, perhaps the consoles with there games-non-congigurable beside in-game features will be a source of cheat free online gaming. But with a launch of the x-box which has the hard drive and capability to be hacked like any pc will see cheats inevitably. It's the additon of the hard drives and the ability to make a mod that makes games cheatable, beside the original code. So for there to be a perfect realism shooter on any console, you'll need a console that is un-hackable-with no memory cards, hard drive, burnable disc, and a proxy that won't allow any possible discrepencies within it's code that would alllow such changes. I'm thinking about 10-20 years into the future with this btw. That would be the perfect console.

But since games are buggy still on release, need updates, mods.... and so on it's a long way ahead.
 

Jix

The other guy
Sep 26, 2000
11
0
0
What about gameplay?

I wonder why everyone is concentrating on graphics only, I've learnt long ago not to care about the graphics.. I mean ffs, I play muds (Multi User Dungeon for you who don't know, basically text based MMORPG's), roguelike games, and other games who don't have really good graphics, but offer a solid and good gameplay. Yes, I know gameplay is a question of opinion, but I for one like computer games a lot more than console games, as computer games are generally more complex and IMO that's a good thing. I have yet to see a good flight simulator, strategy game or a RPG on a console (No, I don't regard those goddamn FF's as RPG's, I refer to them as console RPG's (although I don't think many computer RPG's are either 'real' RPG's, but more on that later, if somebody wants to know (NOT) :p), I hate them :p (people standing in a row in combat, stepping forward and hitting with a 'leet' special strike, when it's their turn, oh my.). No, most rts games don't do the trick for me as strategy games (where are my civilization's for example :p)

On the other hand, consoles do have 'good' sports, driving and fighting games.. and IMO there are only a couple good games/console and that's not worth the price of buying a console (I'm not a hardcore sports/driving/fighting games player, and most of the action games are just boring).

Please excuse my incoherent writing and poor grammar/spelling, it's late and I'm pissed off.

Jix
 

DamienW

I'm no stranger to sarcasm, sir
Feb 4, 2001
1,678
0
0
Bayonne, France
Yeah, the "insert and play" argument was Rimmelister's one, not mine. But i totally agree with it . I spent a whole evening setting up OFP, and Deus EX, ground control, outlaws,FF 7, Hidden and dangerous, outcast , ... no longer turn on my machine, so i guess i'll have to re-format... Not mentionning that i don't have enough hard drive space to install all my favorite games on my comp. With a console, insert, and it works... And will ...ALWAYS work, regardless of driver, patches or all those things...But i still am a PC games fan ... You see, i'm not biased... Neither are most people here when defending both systems, since it is OBVIOUS that they are both good. Point. I'm upset now. Grrrr. I'm getting started (Then Max suddetly turns green, and have big muscles growing everywhere, and charges at everything moving)
:D
 
&

&quot;Sp!ke&quot;

Guest
Im going to make this short since its my economics class and Iam supposed to do somtehing; Ps2 graphics can impossibly match PC graphics, anyone claiming anything else is a fool, if you need details why: just by saying that makes you a fool...
Before you go into "specialized hardware" stuff, what does that make the GF cards and Athlon(originally meant for games, and not for work..) and DirectX which is like a small gaming "OS"?

"Yes, every game in my collection, as in every game I own that has a sequel. I never said I owned the sequels."
Weak, why didnt you include Quake 4 and Unreal warfare then?
Is it possible you posted without actually thinking that HwC and UT arnt really sequals? And youre just to ignorant and foolish that you cant even state: "I was wrong"? And is it really any point having this discussion with you then, since in your opinion, you cant be wrong?

And your post with GT3 vs GP3, well I wouldnt belive that was Gp3 if it wasnt for the adress, but still it looks better...

"Third, you fail to take into account the Xbox's custom graphics card, which amounts to a GeForce 4, or it's custom OS. Not to mention the fact that your P4 3.5GHz CPU will probably cost more than the Xbox does as a whole."
You obviously dont know much about the X: The custom GFX card is as powerful as a GF 3 Ti(even nVidia says so)
Custom OS?! Its made by Microsoft, nothing to worry about there...
3.5ghz = you get what you pay for(4,4 times processing power of the Xbox...)

"Unless you're talking about that C3PO shot which, as I've already indicated, proves nothing but that the PC can do hi-res. But, then again, so can the Xbox, so...?"
The Xbox may, but a tv screen cant, and have you seen the Galaxies trailer?

"Then you most likely saw it running on a crap television, in which case, it would be like me bashing a PC game because it looks like **** on a 5-year-old 7" monitor with half it's pixels burnt out."
It was actually a PS2 show off stand "down town"(using that phrase about Bergen is ****ing hilarious if youve been there..)

"Really? Then why don't you do me a favor and post it again, because I must've missed it somewhere back there."

Hmm, you nearly posted it yourself when you posted the Outcast 2 pics since its coming for the Pc as well, and needless to say(but I type it anyway in case some retarded 12 year old dosnt get it)
ITS GOING TO LOOK BETTER THANKS TO: HIGH RES PC MONITOR, GHZ OF PROCESSING POWER, GF WHAT-EVER-NVIDIA-DECIDES-TO-CALL-NEXT-GEN-CARDS....

And one thing which is a big hole in your "play in less then a few secs" argument, loading times on consoles is a nightmare, which creates "holes" in the gameplay...

"I'm more concerned with the fact that, on the average, most PC users experience at least one problem getting their game started due to driver/hardware incompatibilities, bugs, low system resources, etc. With consoles, I can be assured that everything will work flawlessly and run at the desired 60fps."
Advice on how to never get a prob on PC: Buy known brands(Pentium, nVidia), remember to do some upgrades every 2 years to keep it up with the newest of games*tada* no errors what so ever...

Pcs - Dinner at the finest resturant in town
Console - Happy meal at MacDonalds...

This is getting tiresome. Either start making some intelligent arguments or stop arguing alltogether. I'm getting sick of wasting half an hour of my economics class picking them apart.

And Jaf; There is no need for the " and !, it was just the forums that didnt allow me to use Spike(its my real name with a very minor modification)

and in the end it wasnt that short, I took it home and wrote a a ****load more..
 

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
Are you still here?

I'm not even going to bother arguing with you anymore. You're obviously biased and have no intention whatsoever of budging from your stubborn stance, or of admitting that you may have been wrong. If you want to believe that your PC is so much better than a console, then you go right ahead and do it. Frankly, I couldn't care less.

However, I will say that I've had more fun with my PS2 in the last 2 months than I've had with my PC in all the time I've owned it, and it was less than 1/3rd the price. Make of that what you will.

-Keiichi
 
&

&quot;Sp!ke&quot;

Guest
"Are you still here?
I'm not even going to bother arguing with you anymore. You're obviously biased and have no intention whatsoever of budging from your stubborn stance, or of admitting that you may have been wrong. If you want to believe that your PC is so much better than a console, then you go right ahead and do it. Frankly, I couldn't care less.
However, I will say that I've had more fun with my PS2 in the last 2 months than I've had with my PC in all the time I've owned it, and it was less than 1/3rd the price. Make of that what you will."

The words of a loser...
 

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
No, they're the words of someone who's sick and tired of arguing with an child. I could pick apart your last argument and make you look like a fool yet again, just like I've picked apart all your previous arguments, but it's obvious that it would get me nowhere. You'd simply reply with something equally ridiculous and nonsensical. So, really, what's the point?

-Keiichi
 
&

&quot;Sp!ke&quot;

Guest
Ok, if so would you please "pick apart" the last one, and then ill shut up? If you manage to make sense? Something you have had a hard time doing previoulsy...
 

Keiichi

Old Timer
Mar 13, 2000
3,331
0
0
You asked for it...

Before you go into "specialized hardware" stuff, what does that make the GF cards and Athlon(originally meant for games, and not for work..) and DirectX which is like a small gaming "OS"?
Simple. There are different brands of graphics cards, as you yourself stated (nVIDIA, Athlon, etc), and of those brands, each has varying models (GeForce, GeForce 2, GeForce 3, etc), and of those models, each has varying capabilities (GeForce 2 MX, GeForce 2 GTS, GeForce 2 GTS Pro, GeForce 2 Ultra, etc). Not everyone has the same brand, make, and model, hence, PCs are not standardized. Developers cannot treat a system as specialized if it is not standarized first, which means that, while you could build a PC specialized for gaming (at a hefty cost, I might add), the games that you play on that system would not be specialized for your hardware and could not take advantage of everything your PC could do (which is why, even though the GeForce 3 is capable of pulling off quite a few fancy effects, most games don't use them).

Specialization works both ways. You can have specialized hardware, but if games aren't made to take advantage of it, it doesn't particularly matter. On the other hand, you can have games specialized to take advantage of a particular graphics card, but if the consumer doesn't have that graphics card, it won't make a bit of difference.

Ps2 graphics can impossibly match PC graphics, anyone claiming anything else is a fool, if you need details why: just by saying that makes you a fool...

Hmm, you nearly posted it yourself when you posted the Outcast 2 pics since its coming for the Pc as well, and needless to say(but I type it anyway in case some retarded 12 year old dosnt get it)
ITS GOING TO LOOK BETTER THANKS TO: HIGH RES PC MONITOR, GHZ OF PROCESSING POWER, GF WHAT-EVER-NVIDIA-DECIDES-TO-CALL-NEXT-GEN-CARDS....
*cough* hypocrite *cough*

You answered your own argument for me. The PS2 and PC versions of Outcast 2 are going to be practically indistinguishable (so says Appeal, and they should know), and that game is going to push the limits of what current PCs are capable of, so by default, the PS2 can match the graphics of a PC. I fact, it can exceed them. A PS2, mind you. Not an Xbox or GameCube. I have yet to see any PC RPGs that can match Final Fantasy X. I have yet to see any PC MMORPGs that can match Final Fantasy Online. I have yet to see any PC action games that can match Metal Gear Solid 2. I have yet to see any PC racing games that can match Gran Turismo 3 (you've got to be blind if you think that Grand Prix 3 is superior). I have yet to see any PC fighting games... I have yet to see ANY PC fighting games. Basically, the only PC games I've seen which are comparable to consoles are First-Person Shooters, and that's due to the fact that most console games of that genre are ports of PC titles.

And that's not even factoring cost into the equation which, unless you live in Norway, means that you'd be paying an additional $700 USD or more for a comparable PC.

By the way, you're still relying on the PS2 when comparing consoles to PCs. When exactly are you going to provide me with screenshots comparable to Rogue Leader II, Project Ego, or Dead or Alive 3?

Weak, why didnt you include Quake 4 and Unreal warfare then?
Is it possible you posted without actually thinking that HwC and UT arnt really sequals? And youre just to ignorant and foolish that you cant even state: "I was wrong"? And is it really any point having this discussion with you then, since in your opinion, you cant be wrong?
Who said anything about Homeworld: Cataclysm or Unreal Tournament? In case you didn't know, there are official sequels in development for both Homeworld and Unreal.

You obviously dont know much about the X: The custom GFX card is as powerful as a GF 3 Ti(even nVidia says so)
My bad. I don't claim to be an expert on the Xbox. The PS2 is my specialty. In any case, the entire Xbox will still cost less than a GeForce 3 alone.

The Xbox may, but a tv screen cant,
Just because you can't see it, doesn't make it any less valid. To quote myself, that's like "bashing a PC game because it looks like shit on a 5-year-old 7" monitor with half it's pixels burnt out."

Besides, haven't you ever heard of HDTV or VGA adapters?

It was actually a PS2 show off stand "down town"
And that means it wasn't a crap television because? I've been to retail electronics stores. I've seen their displays. Dirty monitors. Blurry screens. Bleeding and fading colors. Virtually no audio. They're nothing special.

Try running them on a 20" flatscreen television with component inputs. The difference is like night and day.

And one thing which is a big hole in your "play in less then a few secs" argument, loading times on consoles is a nightmare, which creates "holes" in the gameplay...
Oh, yes, 3 seconds of load time is horrendous when compared to the average PC game. :rolleyes:

The usual load time in Unreal Tournament, if I remember correctly, is around 20-30 seconds for each map. Also, taking a more recent example, the load times between maps in AvP2, another PC game, takes over a minute. Now THAT'S a nightmare.

-Keiichi
 
Last edited:

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
0
0
And one thing which is a big hole in your "play in less then a few secs" argument, loading times on consoles is a nightmare, which creates "holes" in the gameplay...
Allow me to add :
- Half-life on the pc : how many 'loading' screens did you see in-game ? plenty of holes there ...

- GTA 3 on the PS2 : total loadtime < 30seconds, my PC is barely past the 'Windows'-intro screen at that time ...
In-game there are just a few loading times just before you're given a mission. That part probably is going to be a bit faster on a pc because of the HDD, but other than that ?

// Keiichi :
FF-series is no RPG IMHO (stats and stand-off fights do no a RPG make).
Except for the Ultima-series (which had a decent attempt) I haven't seen any true RPG for the PC either (although V:TM, AD&D & GURPS have been used as the rules ...) . Most are nothing more than a poor excuse for interlinked skirmishes.

GTA 3 & adventures like the Monkey-Island-series are probably more like a role-playinggame ...