After playing UT99 & 2K4...

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
You see, Epic were smart enough to keep the good levels :p
And all of the additions such as Onslaught, Vehicle CTF and Assault really do the trick. And don't forget that there is a lot more content for UT2004 than UT2003. About Curse, it's strange, yes, but I have both versions here so I'm happy.
Skeletons are cool! :D
Like I've said, all are good, you just need to get used to them. I've spent a lot of time here so I'm really used to it, if I spent more time in UT I would think that UT2004 is odd. But the newer engine is better, oh, and the vehicles + turrets are the best additions.
 

Glider of chaos

Ready 2 Fight !
Jan 25, 2004
476
0
16
44
Russia, St-Petersburg
What? There is no auto-aim with 2k4 link. The alt fire locks down people making it harder for them to move in 2k4.
Hm...
As afr as I remember, they added "no lockdown" option to ini file at some point... And I never saw lockdown again playing online. (I may be mistaken about this one, I suppose. May be I was thinking about UT2k3 here... or tournament mod... I'm just not sure.)
Untrue, you can do all those in 2k4. Be careful, your starting to inject opinion into your posts, and like you said before, "Opinion based argument is flawed by default."
Ok, lets have a look. Can I ambush with bio rifle in UT2k4? May be, but that's not the point. You can ambush even with impact hammer, but the effectiveness is questionable. In UT bio rifle ambush was among the means to gain map control, since full load was a guaranteed kill. On the other hand it was really risky as it gave away your position usually leading to death. It was niche weapon and in UT2k4 it's a reliable mid-range weapon. (I'm not sure if it emits sound when charged in UT2k4 to give away your ambush)
Lightning gun gives your position away as well. Ripper is gone for good.
So, the only thing I was probably wrong about is lockdown use to mess with trickjums... The other point still stand.
Actually, I may be rally biased about UT2k3-4 thing but I am really trying to leave my personal opinion out of discussion ;) .

I'm not saying that brick feels like me, I mean that I feel as heavy and immobile as bricks are.
Ok, ok, I was just kidding. And you are hardly immobile in UT. Dodges allow to move really fast and chang direction fairly fast. In UT2k you need to dodge, boost and jump a lot just to keep with the pace and you can't do much about your movement midair once you used double jump" feature. It feels way more like a thrown brick to me.

In UT2004, you need more battle awareness, a lot more brain and tactics to succeed.
Care to prove?
IMO UT2k with its gimped weapon damage leaves more room for errors, so you don't need battle awareness as much as you need it in UT; same goes for mindgames - backstabbing is not so crucial anymore in UT2k.

Lockdown was stupid and not intended to be. I mean, try playing SpaceNoxx online, you'll simply get shot to space the second you spawn.
Actually, it was. I hope you don't mean to say it was a bug. And low gravity maps just have weapon balancing messed up. Instant hit weapons effectiveness goes through the roof, any knockback is good and mini, having them both becomes really irritating. Btw if you play SpaceNoxx with reasonable number of players (like 3 or 4) it won't be so awkward.

With saying "big" I mean the actual editor scale. Try copying a map from UT to UT2004 or at least UT2003 and you'll see that you are a lot bigger than you were in UT1.
It doesn't matter.

For me, looks are important. For the "feel", you need to be ready to survive in any situations, you can't usually choose the maps in a server you know. And for me all Unreals feel good. I mean, you just need to get used to it.
For me looks are not that important... Sure, it's nice to have good visuals but gameplay means more for me. And i can't get used ti UT2k.

UT1 had pretty impressive maps? What, 80% of the out-of-the-box game is this strange industrial style, where almost all the maps look the same. And I always prefer saturation, when I make maps I always put lights with huge saturation settings to add to the theme.
IMO that's wrong. As far as I remember there was a bunch of themes, like medieval, urban, alien and Egyptian. Sure, some maps were really bland or not so great but most were pretty much ok.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
Hm...
As afr as I remember, they added "no lockdown" option to ini file at some point... And I never saw lockdown again playing online. (I may be mistaken about this one, I suppose. May be I was thinking about UT2k3 here... or tournament mod... I'm just not sure.)

Ok, lets have a look. Can I ambush with bio rifle in UT2k4? May be, but that's not the point. You can ambush even with impact hammer, but the effectiveness is questionable. In UT bio rifle ambush was among the means to gain map control, since full load was a guaranteed kill. On the other hand it was really risky as it gave away your position usually leading to death. It was niche weapon and in UT2k4 it's a reliable mid-range weapon. (I'm not sure if it emits sound when charged in UT2k4 to give away your ambush)
Lightning gun gives your position away as well. Ripper is gone for good.
So, the only thing I was probably wrong about is lockdown use to mess with trickjums... The other point still stand.
Actually, I may be rally biased about UT2k3-4 thing but I am really trying to leave my personal opinion out of discussion ;) .


Ok, ok, I was just kidding. And you are hardly immobile in UT. Dodges allow to move really fast and chang direction fairly fast. In UT2k you need to dodge, boost and jump a lot just to keep with the pace and you can't do much about your movement midair once you used double jump" feature. It feels way more like a thrown brick to me.


Care to prove?
IMO UT2k with its gimped weapon damage leaves more room for errors, so you don't need battle awareness as much as you need it in UT; same goes for mindgames - backstabbing is not so crucial anymore in UT2k.


Actually, it was. I hope you don't mean to say it was a bug. And low gravity maps just have weapon balancing messed up. Instant hit weapons effectiveness goes through the roof, any knockback is good and mini, having them both becomes really irritating. Btw if you play SpaceNoxx with reasonable number of players (like 3 or 4) it won't be so awkward.


It doesn't matter.


For me looks are not that important... Sure, it's nice to have good visuals but gameplay means more for me. And i can't get used ti UT2k.


IMO that's wrong. As far as I remember there was a bunch of themes, like medieval, urban, alien and Egyptian. Sure, some maps were really bland or not so great but most were pretty much ok.

The lockdown effect was probably changed a bit, The Link pushes you back, but as there are mid-air moves it's possible to avoid fire and being pushed.

Yea, you can. Full load of sludge with the Bio Rifle is a guaranteed kill in UT2004 too. Yes, it emits sound (there are even three versions of that sound, one, named "BioGoopLoop" and "BioRiflePowerUp" was never used for some reason I think). It is usable in mid range, but still it's like flak alt but without explosion. And in UT2003 it could be shot further.

Yeap, lightning does give out the position, that's why it's great. The most annoying this is being headshot without even knowing where the sniper is. All of the newer snipers give away the sniper's position, whether it's U2XMP WidowMaker, Lightning Gun or even Classic Sniper Rifle (even more, it obscures your view). Everything to make sniping harder as in UT everyone snipe rape.

You are not immobile, but without double jumps, dodge jumps, walldodging etc. it just doesn't feel good, as well as with the low air control. Like, in UT2004 I'm used to jump straight into a pool of slime, then double jump and aircontrol out of there (like in Deck17), while when I got to play Deck16 again I simply fell into the pool... o_O And no, when you double jump, you have double the air control you have in UT1, I checked the settings.

Sure. You have a sniper and a bio rifle. No one's around. You take out the sniper. Someone jumps just behind you, and has a flak. If you don't think, you will try to hit him with the Lightning and fail, if you get out your bio rifle, that guy will back off and will hit you with triple locked rockets. And if you took out the bio rifle earlier, and used switchloading, you would fire at the imposter, then instantly take out the sniper and get ready to shoot. And if you see someone guarding a PowerNode/Flag/Objective and you only have an AVRiL and a biorifle, you can use the AVRiL to shoot and you might even InstaGib the guardian. And also when you see someone running out with the flag, you can't use just your Link to shoot him down, he will dodge off anything, Flak is of no use, AVRiL too, RL will be dodged off, minigun's a good idea but warns people, so the best thing to use would be the Sniper - try and headshot the carrier.

No, it's not a bug, but it was discovered purely accidentally, and left there. Much like BoostJumping in UT2003, thus it was removed in UT2004. Yeap, no more awkwardness in DM-FST-SpaceNoxx for UT2004.

.. (have nothing to reply.)

..

Yea, a bunch of themes... Nakhti theme - one DOM map. Medieval - a few, 3 DM and 1 CTF for sure. Urban, well, that's like industrial. Alien - CTF-HallOfGiants with Skaarj design, don't remember more. But all others... DM-Conveyor, DM-Fetid, DM-Fractal, DM-Grinder, DM-Liandri, DM-Morbias, DM-Oblivion, DM-Hyperblast, DM-Phobos, DM-Pressure, DM-Stalwart, DM-StalwartXL, DM-Tempest, DM-Turbine, DM-Zeto - all of those are industrial or similar. And just even look at DOM - all of those, except for the afore mentioned DOM-Sesmar are industrial...
 

Defeat

GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO
Apr 2, 2005
2,931
0
0
Illinois
www.google.com
But UT S3TC textures are still better than UT2k4 ones :)

Anyway, it's like this: people who played UT2k4 before anything think that UT2k4 is the coming of Christ; same with UT1.

But I played UT99 first and I like both of them :[ Did I just divide by zero or something by saying that? ;0
 

Zur

surrealistic mad cow
Jul 8, 2002
11,708
8
38
48
I'm not talking about this "a bit of auto-aim" feature. Lockdown is the ability to hinder enemy movement when you hit them with mini/pulse.

This is actually cancelled out by UTPure and is not a standard feature. TNSe did a rewrite of playerpawns (replaced by bbPawns) because it was the only way to get rid of lockdown. This was probably done because lockdown is pretty annoying for high pingers.
 

SorayMustDie

Approach me and DIE!!
Feb 24, 2008
49
0
0
euh...actually both game are not bad...but I found that UT2k4 is a bit too slow pace compare with UT99...I just replaying UT99 after playing UT2K4 for like 3 days in a row , I found that my skill has been decrease in UT99. ( which both skill are average) but I made all the bots in UT99 like extremely skillfull so I guess I can't complain about this.

the other one is like I wish to customise my damn bots in UT2K4 , I want to change their damn voices and their Freaking name but I just CAN'T.

and also. DD is really useless , I don't understand why did Epic take the original Domination off? 5 sec for 1 point is actually really fun.

anyway. I just don't want the topic turn into flame topic...but it is already begin
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
Cryptic and Olden
Missed out Olden, what a loss :D And Cryptic is not a stock map in the original UT1, it's from a bonus pack.

euh...actually both game are not bad...but I found that UT2k4 is a bit too slow pace compare with UT99...I just replaying UT99 after playing UT2K4 for like 3 days in a row , I found that my skill has been decrease in UT99. ( which both skill are average) but I made all the bots in UT99 like extremely skillfull so I guess I can't complain about this.

the other one is like I wish to customise my damn bots in UT2K4 , I want to change their damn voices and their Freaking name but I just CAN'T.

and also. DD is really useless , I don't understand why did Epic take the original Domination off? 5 sec for 1 point is actually really fun.

anyway. I just don't want the topic turn into flame topic...but it is already begin
Yeap, when you get used to one, the other one gets harder. Tried jumping over pools of slime? ;)

Bot customisation is really shortened, but that's because those bots are heroes, that way you get to know the characters in other games. If you want to fully customise one, you need to create a new bot type (still didn't get a reply on how to do that :con: ). Still, if you spectate, you have to admit that the spectate button is supremely useful :) And other customisations like that.

No one forces you to play DDOM. Play classic domination: http://browse.files.filefront.com/U...assic Domination 2/;1325597;/browsefiles.html

Nope, that's just a discussion. We're trying not to get over the top, and discuss it the proper way. Still, a lot of things are not mentioned (like, what about the HUD/Menu?).
 

Glider of chaos

Ready 2 Fight !
Jan 25, 2004
476
0
16
44
Russia, St-Petersburg
Yea, you can. Full load of sludge with the Bio Rifle is a guaranteed kill in UT2004 too. Yes, it emits sound (there are even three versions of that sound, one, named "BioGoopLoop" and "BioRiflePowerUp" was never used for some reason I think). It is usable in mid range, but still it's like flak alt but without explosion. And in UT2003 it could be shot further.
Actually it's not guaranteed 1 hit kill in UT2k4. Max damage is 210. And what I was talking abut was that it was not anywhere near flack in original UT.

Sure. You have a sniper and a bio rifle. No one's around. You take out the sniper. Someone jumps just behind you, and has a flak. If you don't think, you will try to hit him with the Lightning and fail, if you get out your bio rifle, that guy will back off and will hit you with triple locked rockets. And if you took out the bio rifle earlier, and used switchloading, you would fire at the imposter, then instantly take out the sniper and get ready to shoot. And if you see someone guarding a PowerNode/Flag/Objective and you only have an AVRiL and a biorifle, you can use the AVRiL to shoot and you might even InstaGib the guardian. And also when you see someone running out with the flag, you can't use just your Link to shoot him down, he will dodge off anything, Flak is of no use, AVRiL too, RL will be dodged off, minigun's a good idea but warns people, so the best thing to use would be the Sniper - try and headshot the carrier.
That's not thinking. You just use "optimal range for particular gun" rule. Plus switchloading bug/feature (btw I'm not sure if it was fixed or not).

In you need to know where your opponent is all the time, so he wouldn't get close to you when you don't want to. Slow weapon switching doesn't let you walk around with inappropriate gun freely. Of coarse, you can do it but you're at huge disadvantage and you have to decide when to take this risk and when not to. And if you can predict enemy movement you reward is usually greater.
No, it's not a bug, but it was discovered purely accidentally, and left there. Much like BoostJumping in UT2003, thus it was removed in UT2004. Yeap, no more awkwardness in DM-FST-SpaceNoxx for UT2004.
Boostjumping is actually a bug. And you consider feature that is shared by many weapons and that lots of players were crying rivers about an unwanted random feature? I looked at the code of UT weapons some time ago... I see no place for unwanted upward/away momentum to appear there.
Yea, a bunch of themes... Nakhti theme - one DOM map. Medieval - a few, 3 DM and 1 CTF for sure. Urban, well, that's like industrial. Alien - CTF-HallOfGiants with Skaarj design, don't remember more. But all others... DM-Conveyor, DM-Fetid, DM-Fractal, DM-Grinder, DM-Liandri, DM-Morbias, DM-Oblivion, DM-Hyperblast, DM-Phobos, DM-Pressure, DM-Stalwart, DM-StalwartXL, DM-Tempest, DM-Turbine, DM-Zeto - all of those are industrial or similar. And just even look at DOM - all of those, except for the afore mentioned DOM-Sesmar are industrial...
Er... who actually cares how this theme is called?! The number of maps you listed here... Don't tell me you can't tell Stalwart from phobos and Grinder from Hyperblast. They are all pretty different. I'm not telling they are all greatest maps ever but you can't say they all look alike.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
Actually it's not guaranteed 1 hit kill in UT2k4. Max damage is 210. And what I was talking abut was that it was not anywhere near flack in original UT.


That's not thinking. You just use "optimal range for particular gun" rule. Plus switchloading bug/feature (btw I'm not sure if it was fixed or not).

In you need to know where your opponent is all the time, so he wouldn't get close to you when you don't want to. Slow weapon switching doesn't let you walk around with inappropriate gun freely. Of coarse, you can do it but you're at huge disadvantage and you have to decide when to take this risk and when not to. And if you can predict enemy movement you reward is usually greater.

Boostjumping is actually a bug. And you consider feature that is shared by many weapons and that lots of players were crying rivers about an unwanted random feature? I looked at the code of UT weapons some time ago... I see no place for unwanted upward/away momentum to appear there.

Er... who actually cares how this theme is called?! The number of maps you listed here... Don't tell me you can't tell Stalwart from phobos and Grinder from Hyperblast. They are all pretty different. I'm not telling they are all greatest maps ever but you can't say they all look alike.

Bio was more powerful in UT2003. Still, it usually kills in one shot, and the blob maintaining is a cool feature too (when you shoot a blob at another blob, it gets bigger instead of exploding!). Sure, it's more powerful and less of a ranged weapon in UT1, but actually it feels like the Impact Hammer as it deals a lot of damage from a small distance. I like having a more useful weapon that isn't too lethal. And it's name is officially "flak", as Zenith Cannon ;)

That was a quick example. You can use a variety of weapons to take out someone, but they will be useless as soon as the position changes, requiring thinking to kill an opponent. Adrenaline adds a lot to the thinking element, you have 6 combos to choose from so you have to choose one wisely (in UC2, though, there are a lot more), and even more were planned to be included, including the infamous Invunerability that is featured in UT3. Any idea what Retribution might do? By the way, if you see scoreboards, very rarely the top players are shock lightning pros, checked one scoreboard today and the top player that had 1-4 places in all gametypes was mostly a Rocket Scientist, a little Flak Monkey and absolutely not HeadHunter or Combo Whore. So weapon variety really matters. Plus, I always prefer teamwork, where absolutely all kinds of weaponry are needed to keep the position.

The lockdown effect was not unwanted, but it was really random. And spammy, like you already agreed. That's why it's lessened.

Sure, they are different, but what about some other theme? Look at the original Unreal. There were absolutely loads of styles, and they could switch very rapidly - look at Terraniux that is a crashed spaceship, Noork's elbow that is natural terrain only, and Temple of Vandora that is an ancient ruined temple. And all of these maps go one after another. Now that's a change in styles! There is really a very small amount of nice terrain maps in UT (that adds to your high pace theme - I don't like that!). The Terrain(Generators/Info) in UEngine 2 is really advanced, as well as FluidSurface(Generators/Info), making it easy to create realistic maps. Look at UT2004 (yes Leo, and UT2003 :) ) DOM-SepukkuGorge. You won't see anything near it's naturality in UT1. A lack of terrain and vehicles that use it is the primary thing that keeps me in UT2004. It's just fun to ride some vehicles in a large scale terrain map, simply feeling the terrain (and hunting DareDevil! announcements ;) ), and the same theme is carried to the online, we have a really good time in Assault racing servers there, where you don't need to do anything more than relax and just beat some natural barriers that stop you from advancing... Also, look at DM-TokaraForest - you have to admit that it mixes all the interesting elements of catwalks of Deck16, terrain and visuals of UEngine 2 and fighting plus still adding a relaxing element. Actually, you won't be shooting too much in that map - you'll just peacefully walk admiring the trees and shadows cast, stop briefly to shoot at someone and continue admiring the visuals. Really, I'm more of peaceful man than a fragger :cool: And yes Leo, DM-TokaraForest is in UT2003 too. By the way, look at the flame generators, they even look realistic in UT2004, absolutely not like in UT1 that is just a volumetric brush. Actually, the ol' UEngine 1 is capable of emitters, so this can look better once the UT SDK comes out :) And even now Unreal I can use the realistic emitterwork, just that a lot of machines with U1 have low specs that would be challenged by that kind of emitters. But we'll see, maybe I should see if someone made something like that already. Wow, a long post :)
 

BlackCheetah

New Member
Jan 22, 2008
743
0
0
Bio was more powerful in UT2003. Still, it usually kills in one shot, and the blob maintaining is a cool feature too (when you shoot a blob at another blob, it gets bigger instead of exploding!). Sure, it's more powerful and less of a ranged weapon in UT1, but actually it feels like the Impact Hammer as it deals a lot of damage from a small distance. I like having a more useful weapon that isn't too lethal. And it's name is officially "flak", as Zenith Cannon ;)

That was a quick example. You can use a variety of weapons to take out someone, but they will be useless as soon as the position changes, requiring thinking to kill an opponent. Adrenaline adds a lot to the thinking element, you have 6 combos to choose from so you have to choose one wisely (in UC2, though, there are a lot more), and even more were planned to be included, including the infamous Invunerability that is featured in UT3. Any idea what Retribution might do? By the way, if you see scoreboards, very rarely the top players are shock lightning pros, checked one scoreboard today and the top player that had 1-4 places in all gametypes was mostly a Rocket Scientist, a little Flak Monkey and absolutely not HeadHunter or Combo Whore. So weapon variety really matters. Plus, I always prefer teamwork, where absolutely all kinds of weaponry are needed to keep the position.

The lockdown effect was not unwanted, but it was really random. And spammy, like you already agreed. That's why it's lessened.

Sure, they are different, but what about some other theme? Look at the original Unreal. There were absolutely loads of styles, and they could switch very rapidly - look at Terraniux that is a crashed spaceship, Noork's elbow that is natural terrain only, and Temple of Vandora that is an ancient ruined temple. And all of these maps go one after another. Now that's a change in styles! There is really a very small amount of nice terrain maps in UT (that adds to your high pace theme - I don't like that!). The Terrain(Generators/Info) in UEngine 2 is really advanced, as well as FluidSurface(Generators/Info), making it easy to create realistic maps. Look at UT2004 (yes Leo, and UT2003 :) ) DOM-SepukkuGorge. You won't see anything near it's naturality in UT1. A lack of terrain and vehicles that use it is the primary thing that keeps me in UT2004. It's just fun to ride some vehicles in a large scale terrain map, simply feeling the terrain (and hunting DareDevil! announcements ;) ), and the same theme is carried to the online, we have a really good time in Assault racing servers there, where you don't need to do anything more than relax and just beat some natural barriers that stop you from advancing... Also, look at DM-TokaraForest - you have to admit that it mixes all the interesting elements of catwalks of Deck16, terrain and visuals of UEngine 2 and fighting plus still adding a relaxing element. Actually, you won't be shooting too much in that map - you'll just peacefully walk admiring the trees and shadows cast, stop briefly to shoot at someone and continue admiring the visuals. Really, I'm more of peaceful man than a fragger :cool: And yes Leo, DM-TokaraForest is in UT2003 too. By the way, look at the flame generators, they even look realistic in UT2004, absolutely not like in UT1 that is just a volumetric brush. Actually, the ol' UEngine 1 is capable of emitters, so this can look better once the UT SDK comes out :) And even now Unreal I can use the realistic emitterwork, just that a lot of machines with U1 have low specs that would be challenged by that kind of emitters. But we'll see, maybe I should see if someone made something like that already. Wow, a long post :)


Enforcer pwns everything. Argument closed...:closed_2:
 

Leo(T.C.K.)

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
May 14, 2006
4,794
36
48
I would recommend you check out the beta sepukku gorge which had a deleted temple room with genmokai statues which were anywehre ued in original game and these statues are included in "mylevel" of my conversion level btw, as for the combos, there was no invulnerability combo in ut2003 beta, but there was superjump combo (basically it was like you you acquired some sort of jumpboots), which lasted only for few secs (I recreated this combo too, using a different combination of key though) and unused long jump combo which i was unable to recreate in final version and never tried it in beta actually because it was unused, which you could actuvate already only by 50 percent of adrenaline and not 100.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/Adrenaline#Unreal_Championship_2
That 50% thingy is in UC2. Probably they remembered the system they tried to install in UT2 and included it there, Just a little bit more enhanced. Still no idea what kind of combos are Confusion, Holograph, Rage, Retribution and Whirlwind and can imagine Invulnerable, Low Grav and Silencer. Guess Silencer is kinda like the Sound Dampener in U1 (just more useful).
 

Glider of chaos

Ready 2 Fight !
Jan 25, 2004
476
0
16
44
Russia, St-Petersburg
....
Wow, a long post :)

Ooooooook.

I had a lot to say (like I always do) but... But I decided to let it go. Believe me, it was a hard decision (because I actually love to flame ^^ ). But I actually realized that this is going nowhere. We can flame here for an eternity but we won't agree on anything cause we actually looking at this game from different points of view. Looks like I'm more of a competitive gamer (That doesn't mean I'm any good tbh %) ) I love intense and fierce action, I love variety of tactics and playstyles, I love to use whatever I can to get a win... And you look like a mapper/modder person to me. Basically you love nice emitters, pretty meshes and bright lightning ;)