Variable Geometry (Maps)

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Apr 21, 2003
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What annoys me in INF, is that you know the maps so good after some time that you always know where the enemy will come from (even if various ways).
People use the same spots and all that, thats boring.
Fast CQB maps atre cool that way, since you run around hunting the enemies, but real warfare, where you use positions is annoying when you know the map like it's a game (lol).


I wonder if it is possible to have maps with variable geometry? Means everytime you load the map (when fictional map), the buildings randomly change their location, windows, doors and passages change, streets, rocks and hills change, decors varify creating all new situation.
The location of the objective changes, even maybe the objectives themself.

Every mission will be like new, same as soldiers mostly fight in locations they have never visited before.

Mostly soldiers have just a clue about the location by using maps and briefings.
Since the map changes they is no chance to have a map. To solve this problem I thought that once the map is loaded a screenshot will be taken from above the map and every player wil get this screenshot as a map with objectives marked and all that.


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Some SpecOps missions could be fun, when you actually have no map and no idea, but an objective and the recon teams have to search the map. Once one team found, they can report to the others and call for support (using N-W-E-S directions only ;)).
Awesome would be if it would be a co-op game and the enemies would have patrouling teams that randomly walk the map, so the reporting team have to hide and the other teams have to be careful to reach their point.
That is of course some specialized game, but could be fun.
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Ok, back on topic.
The idea is to create new situations where the players have to adapt to the new location and do not use all the same camping spots.
 

Crowze

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Feb 6, 2002
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This isn't a new version suggestion, since it's already possible in 2.9. Maps that spring to mind are Iraq and Mostar (look for the crates) - it would be good to see more done with it, since it's definitely capable of moving more than crates around.
 
Apr 21, 2003
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Awesome. It would be awesome to see whole maps changing that way, because you could replay a single 'map' for months having all new situations.

Also decors and buildings shouldn't be just varied, but some just left out and not used this time, but the next time the map is loaded, so the variety would increase even more.

Variable times (day, night, ...) would make it even more awesome. Different times (winter, summer) is probably a bit to exeggerated, but hey, textures can variate too. Snow that is thicker on the ground can have just a different 'ground model'.

That would be da bomb for INF:Source.
 
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Apr 2, 2001
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The effect of randomness on Irak/Mostar is rather small. (I never even realized until somebody told me ;) ).

Best randomness is achieved by RTS (like DTAS). Especially Irak gets so many new 'hot spots' when played in DTAS.

One huge improvement in gaming will be 'destructible environment' when buildings collapse from explosions, trees fall etc. but that's not about to happen with source yet :(
 

Mappie

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Nov 9, 2002
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Nukeproof said:
One huge improvement in gaming will be 'destructible environment' when buildings collapse from explosions, trees fall etc. but that's not about to happen with source yet :(

Err, if im not mistaken, I think that is possible in the source engine. You can already blow books off shelves and blow computers appart, why not a wall? Just make the objects larger. Also in single player, stuff blows up all the time and holes in walls appear. However, when that happens it may work differently than random occurances after explosions and such.

Also, it would be extremely neat to see a random building map. Im surprised i haven't seen this suggestion before. I would like to see a Cuban Dawn type map that is randomized.
 
Apr 2, 2001
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I don't know for sure, it might be possible to some extend but I was already dreaming of 'physically correct' environment, where an explosion would leave a crater - not limited to predefined changes.

But it's good to hear that it's possible at all :)
 

cracwhore

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Oct 3, 2003
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With Source (sadly) - you can only 'build' individual buildings 'piece-by-piece'. So, if you wanted to have - say - a building that could be destroyed entirely - you'd have to build it in 'destructable' chunks. Basically, like a 'house of cards'.

There was a CTF HL2 map with featured three destructable homes.

It was pretty cool to see somebody using the physics for maps like that. The only downside being that the houses created massive lag problems.

Apparently, the engine is always being improved to make physics better for online play - but I haven't played HL2 TDM in ages, so I don't know.
 
Apr 2, 2001
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cracwhore said:
There was a CTF HL2 map with featured three destructable homes.

It was pretty cool to see somebody using the physics for maps like that. The only downside being that the houses created massive lag problems.

No wonder - if you do half way decent 'simulation' you still can't do it in realtime. Those calculation run forever, even on high end machines.
 

Gnam

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Feb 13, 2002
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Yes, please.
Aperrantly, there is an enire Doom 3 mod based around this idea. Basically, the mod is you just play through up to 100 randomly generated levels, and the monsters get tougher after every level. Seems repetative and primitive in many ways, but it shows that random geometry can work on a large scale in an FPS.

http://doom3.filefront.com/file/DungeonDOOM;45718