INF for UT2K7?
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geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
mat69 said:
Thoreticly this plan would not envolve many of the team members. For instance Beppo could not even begin to code until he had something in his hands. This means that the vast majority of the work would be done by modelers, texture artists, sound engineers, animators, etc. Many of these things are already built and could be expanded upon. From my understanding this was already somewhat the plan.
In any case if the team was to talk to Epic it would be nice to have some content to show them.
Guys, ever wondered why Warren as a teamleader didn't post for at least several month, if not years?
He is the lead animator, lead artist, founder and former project leader - wouldn't he have posted by now if he still cared?
Who is going to do all those nice models and animations in the meantime... or more precise: after working unspecific (engine wise) for more than a year, wouldn't they be loaded with models, textures and animations?
From reading posts here it looks like 80% of the team is in fact inactive.
And as a member stated somewhere else: those new people (I assume guys like Fenris and fist_mlrs were refered to) who were recruited after 2.9 release - just left in the ongoing debate...
I'd really love to see INF on a shiny new engine - but all this nice layed out plans for starting INF-UT2007 now, with huge support from EPIC - who already figured INF beeing sort of a niche thing, no meanstream headliner to make millions of players buy UT just for this mod...
This all is basically wishfull thinking! Please prove me wrong Sentry...
But if the team was that eager to get it started and done atm, would we all be discussing last weeks bad news ??? This is probably about regaining full motivation as much as finding a new engine ... can't blame them after the mediocre success of 2.9 - especially when you look at pathetic CS - having no innovation at all, running on an even older engine (1.6): million kids play it like crazy and "teh best" can even make a living of it - while the inventors of the Best Realism Mod ever where left alone by a covard publisher ...
He is the lead animator, lead artist, founder and former project leader - wouldn't he have posted by now if he still cared?
Who is going to do all those nice models and animations in the meantime... or more precise: after working unspecific (engine wise) for more than a year, wouldn't they be loaded with models, textures and animations?
From reading posts here it looks like 80% of the team is in fact inactive.
And as a member stated somewhere else: those new people (I assume guys like Fenris and fist_mlrs were refered to) who were recruited after 2.9 release - just left in the ongoing debate...
I'd really love to see INF on a shiny new engine - but all this nice layed out plans for starting INF-UT2007 now, with huge support from EPIC - who already figured INF beeing sort of a niche thing, no meanstream headliner to make millions of players buy UT just for this mod...
This all is basically wishfull thinking! Please prove me wrong Sentry...
But if the team was that eager to get it started and done atm, would we all be discussing last weeks bad news ??? This is probably about regaining full motivation as much as finding a new engine ... can't blame them after the mediocre success of 2.9 - especially when you look at pathetic CS - having no innovation at all, running on an even older engine (1.6): million kids play it like crazy and "teh best" can even make a living of it - while the inventors of the Best Realism Mod ever where left alone by a covard publisher ...
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Nukeproof, you'll notice if you read my posts that the "plans" to go with UT2007 is coming from the community.
I really wish I could look into the future and tell you what will happen in order to "prove you wrong", but I can't. I forgot to pack my tarot cards when I left the last fortuneteller convention I attended last spring.
For me, it's also a question of motivation, yes. One of the key elements in my motivation is to work with an engine I have faith in. No engine, no motivation.
One of the great things about working for free, in your spare time, having it as a hobby and then, when it's done, giving it away for free, is that you don't have to prove anything to anyone. You do whatever you want, whenever you want and noone can claim you "owe" them anything. And so, whatever happens, happens.
As to why team members don't post here anymore, I guess some of it can be blamed on posts such as yours, back during 2.9 development. People "demanding" things. So, before we start going down that road again...well, let's just not go there. Again, whatever happens, happens. If an engine turns out to be The One, then great. If we'll just have to wait and see, then that's what we'll do. In the meantime, we are on vacation.
I really wish I could look into the future and tell you what will happen in order to "prove you wrong", but I can't. I forgot to pack my tarot cards when I left the last fortuneteller convention I attended last spring.
For me, it's also a question of motivation, yes. One of the key elements in my motivation is to work with an engine I have faith in. No engine, no motivation.
One of the great things about working for free, in your spare time, having it as a hobby and then, when it's done, giving it away for free, is that you don't have to prove anything to anyone. You do whatever you want, whenever you want and noone can claim you "owe" them anything. And so, whatever happens, happens.
As to why team members don't post here anymore, I guess some of it can be blamed on posts such as yours, back during 2.9 development. People "demanding" things. So, before we start going down that road again...well, let's just not go there. Again, whatever happens, happens. If an engine turns out to be The One, then great. If we'll just have to wait and see, then that's what we'll do. In the meantime, we are on vacation.
FYI I'm replying to the community.
And how am I demanding anything here?
In fact my intetion was to tone down demands and expectations... I personally don't really get how "bad news in lack of time" from Sentry is replied by "get started working on UT2007 now!" by the community... and I get even less how you twist it into "guys like you, who keep demanding drove the developers away..."
I just added "Prove me wrong" - one day in the future - I might have added, to make clear that I still love to see it happen.
And how am I demanding anything here?
In fact my intetion was to tone down demands and expectations... I personally don't really get how "bad news in lack of time" from Sentry is replied by "get started working on UT2007 now!" by the community... and I get even less how you twist it into "guys like you, who keep demanding drove the developers away..."
I just added "Prove me wrong" - one day in the future - I might have added, to make clear that I still love to see it happen.
It was you who brought up Warren's posting habits, all the nice models and animations and such that noone will be able to do since you assumed he wasn't around anymore. You also assume that 80% of the team is inactive since they aren't posting anymore. You also mention Epic and then you want the team to prove you wrong.
I'm just telling you how it might be recieved.
I'm just telling you how it might be recieved.
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Personally - I think it would be in your best interest to post the positions (on the front page) that need to be filled in order to have a mod complete for UT2K7. That way - all of the content would simply be plugged-in when the SDK arrives. Let people know that the studio isn't dead - but rather - that you're simply frustrated with the engines.
There are still plenty of people in this community that would be willing to work so that this game could become a reality - myself included.
And yeah - it's hard to come by free time these days. Work sucks, school sucks, etc. Life happens. But you know what? Deal with it.
You can't keep using that excuse unless you don't want to make it.
Sure - you're your own 'boss'. You don't have to make anything. You could just walk away from all of this and go back to your nine-to-five...
But if you can't see that there is something here - worth slaving over - then you might as well do just that. Somebody else will pick up the pieces and run with it, while you spend the rest of your life thinking - 'What if we...'.
Your playerbase is all you have to measure your success by. They can be demanding sometimes - and you will become annoyed - considering they're not paying you. However - remember this: your playerbase gives you the most valuable form of advertising - word-of-mouth. It's free - it's effective. Be good to them - despite how annoyed you become with them.
Most demands from those of us that stuck around are simply there to motivate you. I'm sure that the remaining playerbase loves this game as much as the people that created it do. The last thing they want is for their favorite game to fall off of the planet (although - some would argue - it already has).
Taking a 'vacation' right now is probably the worst decision you could possibly make.
Start hammering out the gametypes and maps. This is the conceptual phase. Those of you that don't have a lot of free time right now - you'll do your share of the work at a later date. In the meantime - the modellers and texture artists can build the rest.
There are lots of people that are interested in this game and what it has to offer.
If you build it - they will come.
That is - of course - unless you have no desire to build it at all...
There are still plenty of people in this community that would be willing to work so that this game could become a reality - myself included.
And yeah - it's hard to come by free time these days. Work sucks, school sucks, etc. Life happens. But you know what? Deal with it.
You can't keep using that excuse unless you don't want to make it.
Sure - you're your own 'boss'. You don't have to make anything. You could just walk away from all of this and go back to your nine-to-five...
But if you can't see that there is something here - worth slaving over - then you might as well do just that. Somebody else will pick up the pieces and run with it, while you spend the rest of your life thinking - 'What if we...'.
Your playerbase is all you have to measure your success by. They can be demanding sometimes - and you will become annoyed - considering they're not paying you. However - remember this: your playerbase gives you the most valuable form of advertising - word-of-mouth. It's free - it's effective. Be good to them - despite how annoyed you become with them.
Most demands from those of us that stuck around are simply there to motivate you. I'm sure that the remaining playerbase loves this game as much as the people that created it do. The last thing they want is for their favorite game to fall off of the planet (although - some would argue - it already has).
Taking a 'vacation' right now is probably the worst decision you could possibly make.
Start hammering out the gametypes and maps. This is the conceptual phase. Those of you that don't have a lot of free time right now - you'll do your share of the work at a later date. In the meantime - the modellers and texture artists can build the rest.
There are lots of people that are interested in this game and what it has to offer.
If you build it - they will come.
That is - of course - unless you have no desire to build it at all...
First: INF 2.9 is an awesome game - it's more exciting and entertaining than anything I've played so far. I bow down to Sentry for all the hard work you've put into. The only thing it's really lacking badly is active players!
It might have slipt your attention, but I was trying my very best to get a 2nd season of DTASAL on its way but it's pretty hopeless with roughly 20 players interested.... (and don't say it's just the wrong gamemode...)
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I never said you guys "owe" us anything - no INF3.0 or posts on whatever. If it's gonna happen I am more than happy. My point is: It's senseless to beg a team who just decided to take a break. (as if nobody inside Sentry would come up with the idea - after UT2007 was already mentioned). And btw. you'll have difficulties to bring up a thread where I "demanded" anything in a disrespectful manner.
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On drawing conclusions:
Some guys came by after bad news and won't know what was going in the recent past... that's why I mentioned at all.
If I do a postsearch "Warren" his latest post is dated 2/2000 (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=56621) - despite private sections for developers and forum crashes in the past that is quite a while ago... and he didn't post any news since release of 2.9
And many other guys that are still listed as "active" who didn't bother the "ungrateful community" in the past haven't been seen for a while.
I'd be happy if I was wrong but this and some stuff like "this may not come as a suprise" and mentioning of "new guys left" make me believe that just a small share of those listed are in fact active (once more - they don't owe us anything)
That's my personal impression. And yes I believe Warren, isn't really around anymore.
I don't see why drawing those conclusions in public is offensive.
Take a break, join us playing some 2.9 and hopefully come back - but don't try to make us believe everything behind the scenes was a lot better than it actually is...
It might have slipt your attention, but I was trying my very best to get a 2nd season of DTASAL on its way but it's pretty hopeless with roughly 20 players interested.... (and don't say it's just the wrong gamemode...)
---
I never said you guys "owe" us anything - no INF3.0 or posts on whatever. If it's gonna happen I am more than happy. My point is: It's senseless to beg a team who just decided to take a break. (as if nobody inside Sentry would come up with the idea - after UT2007 was already mentioned). And btw. you'll have difficulties to bring up a thread where I "demanded" anything in a disrespectful manner.
---
On drawing conclusions:
Some guys came by after bad news and won't know what was going in the recent past... that's why I mentioned at all.
If I do a postsearch "Warren" his latest post is dated 2/2000 (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=56621) - despite private sections for developers and forum crashes in the past that is quite a while ago... and he didn't post any news since release of 2.9
And many other guys that are still listed as "active" who didn't bother the "ungrateful community" in the past haven't been seen for a while.
I'd be happy if I was wrong but this and some stuff like "this may not come as a suprise" and mentioning of "new guys left" make me believe that just a small share of those listed are in fact active (once more - they don't owe us anything)
That's my personal impression. And yes I believe Warren, isn't really around anymore.
I don't see why drawing those conclusions in public is offensive.
Take a break, join us playing some 2.9 and hopefully come back - but don't try to make us believe everything behind the scenes was a lot better than it actually is...
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You believe and think what you want and that's just fine. Maybe there will be another version of Infiltration, or whatever we'll call it, maybe there won't. Time will tell. With that I have nothing more to add to what I've already said.
Crac's whole post is based on the assumption that Sentry's next project will be for UT2007. That has not yet been decided.
What is success? A successful commercial game is one that attracts the most players i.e. sells the most copies. A mod is completely different because the members are not in it for the money. I assume that most team members are on board so they can learn something from the experience, maybe have something to put on their resume, and enjoy it. Player numbers don't have anything to do with it... a nice side-effect, as it were.
Again, 'taking a vacation' isn't exactly what it sounds like. It doesn't mean everyone is going off, doing their own thing, and completely abandoning it until a specific time. It means we will be taking some time, evaluating some engines, and working out where we want to be in the future.
What is success? A successful commercial game is one that attracts the most players i.e. sells the most copies. A mod is completely different because the members are not in it for the money. I assume that most team members are on board so they can learn something from the experience, maybe have something to put on their resume, and enjoy it. Player numbers don't have anything to do with it... a nice side-effect, as it were.
Again, 'taking a vacation' isn't exactly what it sounds like. It doesn't mean everyone is going off, doing their own thing, and completely abandoning it until a specific time. It means we will be taking some time, evaluating some engines, and working out where we want to be in the future.
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No. My whole post assumes that the remaining members of the team still give a shit.
I can go back and replace 'UT2K7' with 'X_Engine' if you'd prefer. The same applies.
I can go back and replace 'UT2K7' with 'X_Engine' if you'd prefer. The same applies.
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Actually crac's post is valid which ever engine will be used. The design and initial artistic work is not (or almost) engine related.
I really agree with him on this one and I especially agree with the fact that stopping now and waiting for the engine "and then start considering it" (i.e. taking a vacation now) would be a great mistake.
I really agree with him on this one and I especially agree with the fact that stopping now and waiting for the engine "and then start considering it" (i.e. taking a vacation now) would be a great mistake.
we have a SS team with talent, we have a inf mod team with talent.and some individuals of talents. no other mod has such talent availlable.
the sentry studio guys should take the talent wich is in the community and form a new mod team with everyone combined. A team that works toghether and forget all the things like community bad relationship etC.
something to motivate all the community.
Ut2k7 sounds like a good engine enough im pretty sure of it.
its the best bet because people know Ut engine and ut editors and ut code already.
With this, and the experience they have on ut99, A ut2k7 mod is a valid goal.
the sentry studio guys should take the talent wich is in the community and form a new mod team with everyone combined. A team that works toghether and forget all the things like community bad relationship etC.
something to motivate all the community.
Ut2k7 sounds like a good engine enough im pretty sure of it.
its the best bet because people know Ut engine and ut editors and ut code already.
With this, and the experience they have on ut99, A ut2k7 mod is a valid goal.