...Tabletop Gaming

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JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
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JaFO, you should really consider looking at the 4th edition if you didn't like the "roll d20/roll for damage, no variety" problems of the past editions. ...
I've heard about it and seen the (official) character-generator that could print all available powers/options as a card deck for a character. Which is a really neat idea.

I also will agree that having more 'powers'/skills explained and available to use in combat (especially at level 1) is definitely a plus.

However there are a few basic concepts in the D&D system I simply dislike too much. There's the levelling-system and stuff like Orcs and Drow being 'evil' by default and supposedly 'good' characters being able to kill them as they would kill cattle ... ).
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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So yeah, got two plays of PR in last night. Nice game, although I REALLY should avoid playing it with one particular friend. He's got the worst case of analysis paralysis I've ever seen. Because it's generally pretty hard to see if you're doing well in PR (for an inexperienced player), he tended to make 2-minute role selections. Then 2 minutes for selecting a plantation, etc...

Still, eager to play it again:)
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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Newest purchase, once again one-upping the previous geek level in my house. (Measured in dragons*D20 per square meter).

pic482339_lg.jpg

Descent - Journeys in the dark
Co-op / Counter-op dungeon crawler. One player plays the evil overlord, gets to spawn and control all the monsters, set traps and sets up the dungeon as it is revealed by the heroes. Ironically, he also runs a Heroes-R-Us in town, where all his mortal enemies buy their starting gear and potions from him.
(Read: the most experienced player plays overlord and manages all the tricky stuff.)

Meanwhile, the heroes kill as many of his minions as possible, gather loot, activate portal glyphs and solve whatever riddles are present in that dungeon.
Games take anywhere from 2 to 6 hours, depending on hero/overlord skill, quest difficulty and whether or not you decide to incorporate a roleplaying element in the game.

Tremendous amounts of fun, just make sure you close the curtains before you set this up to save your reputation.

The good:
- You get to combine the looting aspect of Borderlands, with the childish joy of slaying monsters on a heroic quest, while enjoying a pretty sophisticated tactics game. A good combination, if I may say so.
- Complex but surprisingly intuitive once you have an experienced overlord player. He can do all the rules lawyering while the heroes just manage their own character.
- The quests are tactically pretty versatile, fun, and gradually build up the difficulty
- The game (with errata posted on the publishers website, and one or two minor and well-known houserules) is balanced to result in 50% hero wins and 50% overlord wins. This means the OL player isn't just there to do all the tedious rules stuff and tell stories but is actually competitively playing the game. So far, I've found both equally enjoyable - playing together as a team and making the most of your movement/attacks as heroes while managing equipment and potions, AND mainly playing a hand-management game as overlord while serial-trap-carding the heroes to death.

The bad:
- 2 to 6 hours. Count on 6.
- You really need three hero players for the difficulty scaling to work. 4 Heroes is usually an easy win unless your overlord is very good, 2 heroes are almost always wiped halfway through the quest. Playing with 2 or 4 heroes requires houseruling. (The monsters get less/more HP and armor depending on the number of players, but the critical bottleneck is the amount of attacks a hero can make during his turn. Meaning, in a two-hero game, you'll absolutely demolish 3 or 4 of the monsters and then proceed to be swarmed by the 5 still left. Whereas in a four-player game, this system reverses. Quite often, when the heroes enter a new area, the overlord loses 75% of his monsters before they've even attacked. A well-planning band of four heroes can easily kill up to 8 monsters per turn)
- It disguises itself as a role playing game, while it's actually more of a competitive tactics game. Not a con per sé, but it can mislead some buyers.
 
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Agent_5

Replica?
Jan 24, 2004
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I played the Star Wars CCG myself, here if you haven't heard of it prior to now.
I remember wasting a lot of my cash on cards for that. I think I even spent $20 buying the Executor card from a local game shop (in retrospect I should've bought the Fett card that was available at the time, but oh well). Tried playing it once, but I didn't understand the rules and we never finished the game.

Lately I haven't played many board or card games, but I was playing Small World at a friends house every once in a while, or Rummikub here at home during those random occasions when nothing else was available.
 

d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
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I remember wasting a lot of my cash on cards for that. I think I even spent $20 buying the Executor card from a local game shop (in retrospect I should've bought the Fett card that was available at the time, but oh well). Tried playing it once, but I didn't understand the rules and we never finished the game.

Lately I haven't played many board or card games, but I was playing Small World at a friends house every once in a while, or Rummikub here at home during those random occasions when nothing else was available.

Hehe, I had to make payments on my first black border obiwan... It set me back $55.
 

Selerox

COR AD COR LOQVITVR
Nov 12, 1999
6,584
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selerox.deviantart.com
Massive steam-powered walkers beating face? Sounds like a plan...

40K has always been my poison in terms of anything gaming. The background just grabs me more than pretty much anything else out there, although some of the newer era background is far less of my thing than the 1st/2nd Edition Era stuff (Dark Eldar and Necrons can burn as far as I'm concerned, Tau on the other hand I don't mind).

The time and money you need to create an army is way too much for most people (including me if I'm totally honest). Not a big fan of GW being a slightly dodgy model company rather than a game company.

A few people I know have started gravitating to Warmachine, and from what I've seen it's got a pretty strong game. People seem to be moving en mass from 40K to WM because:

1) The ruleset is simple and pretty strong.
2) Armies are small, and pretty cheap.
3) Very easy to re-wire your army depending on Warcaster choice.
4) Models look cool.
5) Privateer Press seem to not want to f*** around their customers, unlike GW...

It's also completely cross compatible with it's sister game Hordes. The models look pretty sweet too :)
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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40K has always been my poison in terms of anything gaming. The background just grabs me more than pretty much anything else out there, although some of the newer era background is far less of my thing than the 1st/2nd Edition Era stuff (Dark Eldar and Necrons can burn as far as I'm concerned, Tau on the other hand I don't mind).

The time and money you need to create an army is way too much for most people (including me if I'm totally honest). Not a big fan of GW being a slightly dodgy model company rather than a game company.

A few people I know have started gravitating to Warmachine, and from what I've seen it's got a pretty strong game. People seem to be moving en mass from 40K to WM because:

1) The ruleset is simple and pretty strong.
2) Armies are small, and pretty cheap.
3) Very easy to re-wire your army depending on Warcaster choice.
4) Models look cool.
5) Privateer Press seem to not want to f*** around their customers, unlike GW...

It's also completely cross compatible with it's sister game Hordes. The models look pretty sweet too :)

I've always wondered how people can spend so much money on just one game. Such as Warhammer, or CCG as mentioned earlier in the thread. I get the feeling many people just keep playing those games not because they genuinely want to play them anymore, but in order to justify their huge investments to themselves.
For the cost of that one SW card, for instance, I have bought Dominion and Puerto Rico. Two full games, that have each gotten at least 30 hours of playtime since Januari.
I understand the some of these 'hardcore' games are a hobby in their own right, but still.

EVERY SINGLE BASE SET AND EXPANSION TO HEROSCAPE COMBINED costs around 500 dollars, lots cheaper if you shop around. That's four base sets, three terrain sets and eleven waves of characters. With that amount, you can set up maps that won't even fit on my gaming table, featuring castle walls, trees, lava, glaciers, swamp, ruins, etc. That whole collection would feature approximately 300-400 figurines, divided under 6 different generals/themes, enough to run a (theoretical) 30 player match.

All that is probably equally expensive to a full Warhammer army, excluding the time you'll have to spend to paint (this is probably not a downside for people into this hobby, though) and the cost of that. Then, you'll need a game board. Lots more sculpting, painting, flocking, etc, and - it's permanent. You'll have to make a new one if you want a different layout.

To each their own I guess, but if I had 500 dollars to spare, I know what I'd buy - a ****ton of 'regular' games. Loads more variation, almost always something you can play with new people, etc.

note: I won't go too deep into CCG's - I think many of those are scams at best. I just know that I'd be pissed as hell if someone sold me monopoly but I'd have to collect the chance cards through blind purchases, 90% of which would be useless repeats of street cards I already had. But apparently the fans are loving it, so who am I to speak;)
 
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Selerox

COR AD COR LOQVITVR
Nov 12, 1999
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selerox.deviantart.com
Liking the Khador stuff. Subtle. Not.

Privateer Press just released Battlegroup boxes, which contain a pretty decent army (for a start anyway) for £30.

Compare that to 40K, where a Battlegroup box contains something that doesn't work for a second as a full army and is £50+.

If I was starting a system from scratch I'd seriously consider Warmachine. I have my hands full with 40K tbh though.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
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I've always wondered how people can spend so much money on just one game. ...
That's easy.
You never buy the complete army.
You tend to buy those things model by model and unit by unit.
It's like those micro-payments for DLC ... it looks 'cheap' as it's only a few dollars per item, but you'll have spend a few hundred dollars before you're done.
It's an addiction TBH

// ---
Anyone familliar with "Arcane Legions" ? ( http://arcanelegions.com/ )
It got mentioned on Penny Arcade a while back and it looks interesting (and not as ff-ing expensive) as the Warhammer-universe armies.
 

-Jes-

Tastefully Barking
Jan 17, 2005
2,710
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DM-HyperBlast
That, and/or you buy your models at discounts. :lol:
I've seen wh40k stuff for sale around Europe at prices that would make me want to gouge out my eyes.


Incidently, I have about 3000pts of Spess Mehreens. They sorta look like this:
oshi-fists.jpg

Cool Impy Fists screeny courtesy of a modded-by-me DoW2.
 
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DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
1,164
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That, and/or you buy your models at discounts. :lol:
I've seen wh40k stuff for sale around Europe at prices that would make me want to gouge out my eyes.


Incidently, I have about 3000pts of Spess Mehreens. They sorta look like this:
oshi-fists.jpg

Cool Impy Fists screeny courtesy of a modded-by-me DoW2.

BUT. Have you also prepared multiple simmul-taneous defensive deep strikes?!
This is of crucial importance.
 

d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
1,045
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I played in a SWCCG Sealed deck event last weekend.

What a blast! I went undefeated, but still, just to be playing was amazing. It seems there's support for more tourneys in town too, as we had 9 people show up, and all seem to want to get it back going.

Happy days are here again :D
 

Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
2,019
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Quiet Island
trynant.wordpress.com
Nerdiness ENGAGE

Heh, I've been amassing a collection between July and this bump.

Settlers of Catan is the gateway drug. This is the game you pull out and play when you're playing with newbies who only know about Monopoly and the like. It's a solid game, but once you get into boardgames you learn there are better experiences (at least if you're comfortable with slightly more complex interactions).

Power Grid is a cool game, although there's some potential number crunching. Rules are amazing concise even though there's a lot of things going on.

Agricola has a horrible rulebook but amazing gameplay. Le Havre, made by the same guy, I like even more due to less busywork moving pieces.

Horus Heresy showed me that a very weighty strategy game does not work for two player only if the rules are exceedingly complex (and possibly poorly explained :().

Arkham Horror showed me that an exceedingly complex cooperative game is a very fun experience, especially if the boardgame is brutally difficult.

Dominion is still a great game. The expansions make it even more fun (especially the recent Prosperity). I have people who say it's their favorite card game, or favorite tabletop game even. I can understand why.

Puerto Rico is ****ing amazing. There's really not much I can say because it's just too awesome for me to do justice to it.

Carcassonne is okay. Not bad, not great, just okay. Too much luck involved to feel like you're truly rewarded for playing well.

Fluxx is mindless fun.

Munchkin is a joke that gets old fast.

Magic the Gathering would be a pretty good game were it not a huge money sink.

D&D 4th Edition I have not played in a while, and sometimes I feel it works better as a boardgame than an RPG, but it's a pretty damn good boardgame.

I haven't played much Burning Wheel recently either, but if I want a true roleplaying experience this is my first choice. It has such great mechanics that actually encourages storytelling beyond "hack monster, bash open door."

Lastly, I have a bunch of leftover miniatures from various lost boardgames and miniature packs. I decided to try to make a boardgame out of the junk I had lying around and see if it could result in something fun. Well...it's a work in progress, but it's definitely fun to create something like this.
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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Good idea, I'll add my latest purchases.

Space Alert: I'll put this right at the top since it's just that awesome. General idea: you and your crew of 3-5 astronauts are exploring a new sector in space. The goal is to survive for 10 minutes, then warp back out. Co-op players ersus game. Sounds simple, right?

I'll let this video speak for itself.

The level of teamwork needed, while it is genuinely impossible for one player to do everything and 'lead' the game is what makes it. The 10 minute missions are controlled chaos.
Another note: the rulebook for this is EXCELLENT. There's the dry manual stating all the rules, and there's the "learning to be a space recruit in 7 simple steps" manual. The latter features some pretty funny dialogue from your instructor and guides you through 7 tutorial missions (not all of them have to be done if you're quick to learn), complete with easier pre-made CD tracks, each one introducing some new elements of play and ramping up the difficulty. Great way to ease into the game.

edit: SC2 match incoming. Will finish post later. //edited edit: We won, yay, my life for Aiur, etc.

Saboteur: Pretty simple, but a decent, interesting game that supports up to 10(!) players easily. One team lays down map cards to make a direct tunnel from the entrace to the gold stash (diggers), while 1 to 4 hidden saboteurs try and prevent that from happening before the cards run out. There are three face-down goal cards, only one of them is the gold stash. You can play attack cards on other people to prevent them from laying down new cards, so saboteurs will have to be subtle in their tries to block progress.

Nice little game, cheap, easy to bring along, and like many other party games, the draw of this isn't so much the game mechanics itself, but the social interactions that follow from it. If you draw a spy card (look at one of the three goal cards to see if it's gold or not), who do you tell what it was? If you tell the diggers it's easier to complete the tunnel, but if the saboteurs find out you're gonna have a hard time. Someone played a crappy move? Should you hit them with an attack card or not, or will that incriminate you as one of the saboteurs? Etc.

Mr Jack: Great little 1v1 game, quite the brainburner. I think of this as a cross between chess (dynamics), citadels(character selection and powers) and cluedo(theme). One player plays investigator, the other one plays Jack the Ripper, who is disguised as one of the investigators. You take turns moving one character across the board and performing their ability, in an attempt to either figure out who Jack is, or make sure Jack's identity isn't discovered.

You do this by working with a hidden/visible rule: If Jack is next to a lantern, next to another character or standing in Watson's flashlight beam, he's visible. The same goes for all other characters. Each 4 moves the Jack player has to indicate if his disguised murderer is visible or invisible. This way the investigator can rule out suspects.
Goal is to accuse Jack before the end of turn 8 (as in: 'take them' such as in Chess). Jack's goal is to prevent that from happening or escape through one of four exits (can only happen if he was hidden the previous turn).

It seems childish and simple when you first see the game, but a surprising amount of thought goes into playing a match properly, particularly on Jack's part. Not only is there the literal suspect elimination through visible/hidden rule, you can also deduce quite a bit through either player's character picks and which characters they tend to 'protect' (make sure they are in the largest group, either hidden or visible / make sure they can't be made invisible through opponent's moves, etc / purposely picking a character that's useless to them just to prevent the investigator from using it, etc).

Really fun!
 
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shoptroll

Active Member
Jan 21, 2004
2,226
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Good idea, I'll add my latest purchases.

Space Alert: I'll put this right at the top since it's just that awesome. General idea: you and your crew of 3-5 astronauts are exploring a new sector in space. The goal is to survive for 10 minutes, then warp back out. Co-op players ersus game. Sounds simple, right?

I've been wanting to play this game badly for a while now but I don't think it would fly with my current gaming group. Pandemic scares everyone and the last game we played with time constraints was Galaxy Trucker (same designer as Space Alert) which didn't go over as well as I hoped :\

Maybe at PAX East I'll finally get a chance...
 

Gambit84

New Member
Oct 17, 2004
427
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The thread title had me thinking more along the lines of..

Nice%20centipede%20cocktail.jpg


centepede via cocktail table. That was the ****!
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
1,164
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I've been wanting to play this game badly for a while now but I don't think it would fly with my current gaming group. Pandemic scares everyone and the last game we played with time constraints was Galaxy Trucker (same designer as Space Alert) which didn't go over as well as I hoped :\

Maybe at PAX East I'll finally get a chance...

I still highly recommend trying this one. It fixes most if not all problems of other co-op games (one player bossing people around, the game being either ridiculously easy or insanely hard depending on starting hand, etc) and creates a situation where there is fun to be had even if you ignore the game mechanics themselves. From what I know of Galaxy trucker, it features the same "oh **** we lost...badly" element that Space Alert has, but in this game you have a lot more control over the outcome. I haven't found any grossly unfair situations yet, so any loss is entirely your (or someone else's, preferably) fault.

Then again, you do need to go into the game with the correct mindset. You WILL lose. The first few times. More than that if you play the harder set of encounter cards or haven't found a good way to work together yet.
If you have players in your group who couldn't laugh about how hard they lost, or have players that would blame other players in a non-funny way, that could be a problem.
As soon as you start taking this game too seriously and forget that failing miserably is actually fun this time around, it's not a game you'd wanna play anymore.

In any other case, this has hit the table more times already in the month I've owned it than Descent has done for a year now.
 
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theabyss

No One Here Gets Out Alive
Dec 3, 2005
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East Coast
I used to play "Mensch-Aerger-Dich-Nicht" - I think in the US its called "Aggravation." Does that count? ;)