Deus Ex 2 demo

Spier · Nov 25, 2003

That must have been the absolutely worst selection of badly designed weapons in an FPS, ever. 90% of the weapons had some glowing logo on them, you can't reload, one handed SMG, they were far easier too use than in 1* etc. Even Deus Ex 1 had better weapons, personally I'd prefer Nerf guns to these..things.

*I killed the guard in the front with the stun prod, took his flamethrower, climbed the ladder, flamed the two guys. Then a bunch of other people came running out the door, flamed them as well. Realized that I had more or less finished the level in less than 30 secs.. And only taken one hit.

Overall, the demo felt EXTREMELY dumbed down compared to Deus Ex 1, it felt like a..console game. Unless this is a pre-beta demo(which it unfortunately isn't) then this game will indeed suck. Let us just hope it can be easily modded to remove the idiocy.

Spier · Nov 25, 2003

Found this, sums it up nicely:

To: Eidos Interactive Ltd. and Ionstorm

We, the gaming community, have waited patiently for Deus Ex: Invisible War to come out. In anticipation for this game, the sequel to one of the best games of all time, many of us have downloaded the demo at release and have been extremely disappointed. If the demo is any indication of the game that will be released, we ask that Ionstorm please delay the release of the game to fix some pressing issues.

1) Localized damage. One of the great points of Deus Ex was the localized damage, where a player could have their legs or arms blown off and suffer consequences. In the same respect, the enemy could be disarmed through the use of localized damage, and we wish that this be implemented again.

2) Over simplification of the game. Some features of Deus Ex, although considered complex, were essential to game play. These included various statistics for doors and keybads, ability to have an interface for use with bots, and a more dedicated console for computer interfaces that supported the use of the mouse for easier access. In addition, the management of computer consoles with user names and passwords, as well as keypad combinations were a integral part to the immersiveness of Deus Ex. We wish that these features were reimplemented to give a feel of immersiveness to the game once again.

3) General unrealisticness. We feel that having weapons that shoot as long as there is ammo unrealistic. We wish that a simple "reloading" feature be reintroduced back into the game, as well as many other issues with realisticness.

4) Multiple choices. In the demo, there were no opportunities for silent take downs. In the demo for the first Deus Ex, we had a full sized level in which we were able to do many, many things in many different ways. In addition to not having multiple ways around an object, the opportunity for stealth take downs are now severely limited by the lack of a good silent melee weapon now that the prod has been replaced with a stun weapon.

5) For many other technical issues and aesthetics.

We realize that the game has "gone gold" and that this petition may do nothing to the game's overall design -- however, we wish to make some of these issues regarding Deus Ex: Invisible War known to Eidos Interactive Ltd. and Inonstorm.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

http://www.petitiononline.com/DXIWDemo/petition.html

Ops, should have just edited. Sorry.

Freon · Nov 25, 2003

I HATE people speaking in the name of the gaming community

I agree the game still has issues, but if these guys had half a brain, they would realize most of the features they're asking can't be implemented on a console (yay for typing usernames and passwords on a gamepad with a limited time).

-Snakebite- · Nov 25, 2003

TBH the game has to target a console audience now, and as far as I know they didnt branch the code, so its gonna be a lot simpler and easier to play. Im sure they hated loosing a lot of the features from the original, but thats what required when dealing with console mass market gaming.

I'm sure someone could mod the missing features back in.

(SDS)benmcl · Nov 25, 2003

Well thats some more money saved. They can take their game a stick where the sun don't shine.

spm1138 · Nov 25, 2003

but if these guys had half a brain, they would realize most of the features they're asking can't be implemented on a console (yay for typing usernames and passwords on a gamepad with a limited time).

That'd be the exact same kind of retarded laziness as releasing the XBox version on PC and not adapting it to the PC's strengths and weaknesses.

Even tossers like Electronic Arts manage to release a pretty decent version of a game for each platform (XBox Live related cretinity aside).

I honestly expected better from the DX team.

If that's what they think of their customers they can keep their game.

Keiichi · Nov 25, 2003

Looks like it's Halo all over again...

-Keiichi

DamienW · Nov 25, 2003

Freon said:
I agree the game still has issues, but if these guys had half a brain, they would realize most of the features they're asking can't be implemented on a console (yay for typing usernames and passwords on a gamepad with a limited time).

You're quoting only one. What about the oversimplification of inventory management ? It was done like in DX1 in many console games, so it can be done here. The really weird ammo management ? The lack of opportunities for real multiple choices ? Locational damage ? All of these are critical design decisions.

I have to remind you that Deus Ex was adapted for the PS2, and it still was deus ex, albeit with one or two simplified management options, but the game still played the same.

You "hate" people speaking in the name of all the gaming community, and i tend to agree to a certain extent. For my part, i "hate" people who tend to consider that console players are dumb and PC players intelligent, and therefore require two different types of game. When the PS2 port of Deus Ex was anounced, Warren spector said "a gamer plays games, wether they be on console or PC, all the rest is irrelevant" (quoting from memory), and i was glad to read that. Too bad this policy doesn't live for the 2nd installment.

Freon · Nov 25, 2003

dude, this is based on the console controls, not the brain of their owner. Locational damage means nothing if you can't aim. text passwords can't be used on a gamepad. tetris shaped inventory doesn't work when you don't have a mouse.

Then about that multiple choice "problem". They are only judging it from a ****ing demo! while Spector stated that, this time, you can really choose your side. As for the stealth option, I'm pretty sure it will be better in DX2 than in the first game because of the new AI and ligthing engine (and the other available goodies).

I undestand why they want to release the same game on XBox and PC. It allows them to spend more time on the already announced DX3 and Thief 3. somebody mentioned it looked like a "2 year old" game. Do you want Thief 3 to look like a 3 year old game as well?

TheShiningWizard · Nov 25, 2003

Did anyone else here take the "gamble in the bar and earn tons of money to pay the debt and not kill anyone" route?

-Snakebite- · Nov 25, 2003

The reasons games are dumbed down for consoles is exactly the same reason movies are dumbed down if they want to be a commercial sucess. It needs to be highly accesable. With PC games, the majority of people already have a good base of computer skills, whereas with a console, the level of techincal mastery is not quite so high.
I'm a console gamer as well as a PC gamer, I have a lot of friends that are sole console gamers, and I would at no point claim them to be less intellegent or anything. It's just that console AAA titles need to be playable by everyone, wheres PC games can get away with a niche market.

I havent tried DX2 yet, however I do intend to buy the full game on release, I'm sure it will be an interesting title.

DamienW · Nov 25, 2003

Freon said:
dude, this is based on the console controls, not the brain of their owner. Locational damage means nothing if you can't aim.

Halo for X-Box, Half-life for PS2, SOCOM navy seals for PS2. All had it.

Freon said:
text passwords can't be used on a gamepad

Resident evil had a nice interface for that. Most console games have a way to input your name for stats purposes.

Freon said:
tetris shaped inventory doesn't work when you don't have a mouse.

Drakan2 : The ancient's gates, and baldur's gate dark alliance (i think).

Don't talk about console gaming when you have no clue of what it is. Dude.

Freon · Nov 25, 2003

FTU, did that. But I killed the GobZilla owner when killing it

I admit throwing a grenade in his cage was a little overdone

She's the only human I've killed, and it's pretty good for me considered the piles of bodies I've left behind me in Deus Ex 1.

Of course I've also tried the "throw-2-or-3-spider-grenades-in-the-thugs-HQ" solution

edit: "Most console games have a way to input your name for stats purposes."
we're talking about hacking here, entering words like that is really annoying

edit2: en plus j'ai plein de jeux console, avec des emulateurs alors je sais de quoi je parle

ant75 · Nov 25, 2003

To me not using hit locations is an insult to the unreal warfare engine. It's like UT2K4 using 64X64 textures...

DEFkon · Nov 25, 2003

well the lack of a "reload" feature didn't bother me so much as how (for lack of a better term) crappy the in game menus work. I personally find hacking to be a pain because you can't use the mouse. They give you a list of things you can do, once you've hacked in, but you have to use the arrow keys (or the mousewheel), and the enter button to do anything. You can't even switch it so you can use something like the spacebar or other key closer to the wasd... Sigh

The fact that things like atm's, keypads, ect have NO interface what so ever does remove the entire "hacking" experience. So much for guessing someone's password, now you have to over hear it, or find it laying around someowhere, so the game "Knows" you know it. (course the fact that you by default have the Nero-interface as an augmentation in the demo, might be giving us a skewed perspective on hacking.

but, what is particularly sad is that a movie licensed console game (Enter the matrix), actually had a more in depth hacking interface than a game that lists it as one of it's main features.

I'll probably end up picking up the game because there's enough left of the original that i like, and hope that some fans will be able to mod it. But i have a bad feeling that "dumbing it down" is going to backfire on them.

It's going to alienate the fans of the original, in the hopes of attracting a newer larger audiance, but to be honest i dont think it's going to be well recieved by the console market because it's not a typical FPS.

I've spoken with "console players" that have rented "half-life" for the PS2 who've said "i couldn't get into it, there was too much talking." I can just imagine what they'd say about DX2.

jaeg · Nov 25, 2003

Did anybody see any more weapons other than these? As an avid DX1 player I always get the feeling I am missing something

- knife
- baton
- lightning stick of uselessness because it makes noise
- pistol
- shotgun
- flamethrower
- bolt launcher
- assault rifle
- spiderbombs
- flash bombs
- concussion grenades
- proximity mines
- glass shattering weapon mod
- rate-of-fire weapon mod

I saw the sniper rifle on the wall behind the bar's security guard but can't see a way to get in there.

Btw I really am looking forward to this game as it looks like they have gotten the environment down pat. The extensive detail and lighting really helps with the atmophere. I loved tossing barrels at the guards to slow them down and lighting things on fire with the flame thrower.

TheShiningWizard · Nov 25, 2003

*Sigh* They absolutely ruined the stun rod. The point is that it's supposed to quickly and quietly incapacitate enemies. Now it makes a crapload of noise and takes forever to knock someone out. Also, is it just me, or does a knife to the back of the head not result in a kill anymore?

Cold Killer · Nov 25, 2003

I am so pissed at the XBox right now...

yurch · Nov 25, 2003

Runs improperly with my sound (constant skips/crackles), runs painfully slow, and crashes at arbitrary moments (like opening the door by the guard).

Can't review any more then that.

DEFkon · Nov 26, 2003

You forgot the EMP gernade.

Also, something else i've discovered is that you can pull yourself up onto ledges. If you make a leap for a ledge, and you come up short just keep holding the space bar, and you'll catch on and lift yourself up. (i'm sure everyone else figured that out already

)

as far as the weapons behind the door check, i don't think they're "real". If you do your "see through walls" trick, which normally highlights objects you can pick up, or talk to ect You'll notice that while although the person is lit up, the weapons aren't. I'm guessing that means they just there for looks.

I've found if you play on the hardest difficulty level (ironically called "realistic") damage from weapons are beefed up. Explosions seem to have a larger radius, people catch on fire easier, and burn faster. ect. I actually found it somewhat easier to play "run and gun" using the hardest difficulty setting, since enemies die easier. Course you take alot more damage as well if you get hit, but for anyone use to games like INF where that's the norm, it's pretty much a given.

Another thing i've noticed is that items in the inventory are stackable by class rather than specific types of items. For example wine, beer, and cigs, all stack in one slot because they're classified as "vices". Soda, candy, soy, all get stacked together as "food". Unfortunatly there doesn't seem to be a way to shuffle through the items in the slot, but if all the items in that class have the same effect than it's not a big deal.

Deus Ex 2 demo

1

1

Braaaaiinss...

Hero

Why not visit us here in the real world.

Irony Is

Old Timer

I'm no stranger to sarcasm, sir

Braaaaiinss...

Because it's more fantastical.

Hero

I'm no stranger to sarcasm, sir

Braaaaiinss...

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Shhh

PopeyeTurbo

Because it's more fantastical.

I will Kill Bill

Swinging the clue-by-four

Shhh