UT2003 / UT2004 Network Compatability To Be Broken

EvilDrWong · Jan 20, 2004

Loibisch said:
People seem to be missing that almost every patch for UT2003 broke mod-compatibility and mods had to be re-released to work with the new patch. Now you expect that UT2003 mods just work for UT2004 without any tweaking?

At the very least we'll have to recompile with the new source. At most we'll have to completely re-write stuff that we shouldnt have hacked up as much as we did anyway.

Loibisch · Jan 20, 2004

Yeah, that's about what I was trying to say

Devastator · Jan 20, 2004

AMmayhem said:
My god, almost everyone that posted in that thread are a bunch of paranoid whiners. If they think all of this is such a horrible thing, why don't they leave the Unreal community altogether? Could it be that no other companies listen to their fans as much as Epic does? It sounds to me that the people have become spoiled and suddenly they think that what they say is supposed to have bearing on a company they're not even employed with. Just because they may have fulfilled past "requests" to an extent, doesn't mean every single one is.

Well said.

Loibisch · Jan 20, 2004

not really in the true meaning of the words...

NeoNight · Jan 20, 2004

punk129 said:
this means ut2003 mods wont work with ut2004?

If you’re trying to play them on the net am guessing no. Offline sure why not?

That's assuming they haven't done other major (and probably needed) alterations to the games core code base or something.

Imaginos · Jan 20, 2004

Mu zein.

Sir_Brizz · Jan 20, 2004

Well when I sent this news in I was happy they did it in some ways. But it was very interesting news, I have to say. It came very suddenly.

Although from what most people in the mods mailing list are saying, 2k3 mods should need little more than a little code tweaking and recompiling to be compatible with 2k4.

Selerox · Jan 20, 2004

Wow, thats er, a lot...

Daniel Vogel said:
AFAICT Unreal -> Unreal Tournament had fewer code changes than Unreal Tournament 2003 -> Unreal Tournament 2004.

That's pretty damn impressive

|UO|Amadeus · Jan 20, 2004

Hmmmmmm, thats a little disapointing I hope the changes arn't just to efficiancy.

Curve[UK] · Jan 20, 2004

I think im going to just sit on my can and wait for UT2004 before i even think about making some skins again lol

Juguard · Jan 20, 2004

I'm glad these changes to UT2004 are done, because UT2004 is what UT2003 should have been. Well, at least I hope.

Its one reason I hated when they announced back when UT2 was actually going to be called UT2003, and they are going to make it like a sport series, like EA does with NBA 2000, NBA 2001, and so on. I hated that, it breaks community.

I acutally hope that UT2003 just dies, and UT2004 lives like UT. Also, as a UT fan, I hope UT2004 will actually be the next UT game for me, as for a lot of UT fans.

A lot of hopes, yes, I'll have to wait and see what happends.

Sabbath · Jan 20, 2004

Disgruntled UT player

UT2003 was a total flop sadly, and im not holding my breath on UT2k4, its just a cheap cop out, methinks epic was pissed with EA and BF1942 getting game of the year...
I was a hardcore UT player, in a top Australasian clan, UT2003 was a slap in the face for serious UT fans...
they took what made UT a hit and totally trashed it (transloc is a prime example) and tried to make the game more quake like to pick up some quake players (why i ask myself?? UT was game of the year? why the need to change a winning recipe??)
UT2004 does nothing for me at all... I will not be buying it...
if i want to drive tanks and crapola, ill play tribes2 or Unreal2XMP.. or even bf1942....
i want to play Unreal Tournament... not some poxy cheap game thats tries to milk the UT community for cash...
UT2003 promised so much, and delivered so little...
in UT you were rewarded for being skillful... in UT2003, you get rewarded for being inaccurate and spamming...
LG is a prime example.. your main directional one shot type weapon, and you make it so if a player misses, itll spam some damage for "nearly" being on target...
sigh
yay for spam...

MachDelta · Jan 20, 2004

I have faith in Epic... I think they can do things right the third time 'round. For one, '04 isn't going to be held back by a f*cking console like 03 was (Unreal Championship). But more importantly, UT2003 was a bit of an exploration for Epic. They started with a hit (UT), then they tried to see what boundries they could push with the sequel. The community gave feedback on those changes, and voila - Epic suddenly has a better idea of what they can/cannot do, where they can/cannot go with the game.

So I think it'll definitly be a better successor to UT than UT2003 was. Probably not a mystical-magical perfect game, because honestly I don't think its possible to compete with a first-love like UT was. But Epic earned enough of my good faith with UT to carry over to UT2004, which I think they'll get right. They'd better!

Sir_Brizz · Jan 20, 2004

MachDelta said:
I have faith in Epic... I think they can do things right the third time 'round. For one, '04 isn't going to be held back by a f*cking console like 03 was (Unreal Championship). But more importantly, UT2003 was a bit of an exploration for Epic. They started with a hit (UT), then they tried to see what boundries they could push with the sequel. The community gave feedback on those changes, and voila - Epic suddenly has a better idea of what they can/cannot do, where they can/cannot go with the game.

So I think it'll definitly be a better successor to UT than UT2003 was. Probably not a mystical-magical perfect game, because honestly I don't think its possible to compete with a first-love like UT was. But Epic earned enough of my good faith with UT to carry over to UT2004, which I think they'll get right. They'd better!

:tup: Excellent points

hal · Jan 20, 2004

Count me among the unconcerned about the breaking of network compatability. In fact, I'm glad. Now there should be no reason why we shouldn't see that game they want it to be.

swag · Jan 20, 2004

Well, this is about typical for epic. Afraid they might have to contend with competing mods perhaps ..

UT2k4 was IN FACT slated as eccentially an upgrade to 2k3. Them breaking code compatibility at the network level is by design. You can say all you want about new engine BS, and greater this BS about the unreal engine and you will simply find that its just more of the same BS has been pumping out for the last handful of years with the engine: its a mediocre engine the LOTS of potential but their interest in the bottom line is clouding appropriate developement of the engine.

For those of you that dont know:

Mediocre

Main Entry: me·di·o·cre
Pronunciation: "mE-dE-'O-k&r
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin mediocris, from medius middle + Old Latin ocris stony mountain; akin to Latin acer sharp -- more at EDGE
Date: circa 1586
: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ORDINARY, SO-SO

The modding community must be fuming.

TWD · Jan 20, 2004

There shouldn't be much problem with mods working between ut2003 and ut2004. For the mods to not work it would mean that there was a serious change to unrealscript which is not the thing in question. If a mod has some advanced network coding in it it might need to be edited a little bit, but I doubt it will be an issue.

I really don't think this will change anything at all anyways. Chances are that anybody still playing ut2003 by that time probably aren't worth playing with anyways.

hal · Jan 20, 2004

Swag... mediocre by what standards? Where are all of the better engines that are out right now and what games are on them?

swag · Jan 20, 2004

hal said:
Swag... mediocre by what standards? Where are all of the better engines that are out right now and what games are on them?

By my standards. There is more of the same stuff release after release and if it wasn't for the community suggestions to build off of they'd be lost. A better engine .. i dunno about that. The script is buggy and poorly documented. Portions of the scripts provided don't even function as documented. I don't know how much unreal wiki gets paid to document the unreal engine but if it wasn't for it there would be hardly any documentation at all. UDN is primarily for the people who fork over the 3/4 of a mill to license the engine. Us community ppl get the scraps of things that MAY work as documented.

I think that you missed the potential part and why I stated what I did. You need to read the rest of the sentence. Here it is again:

its a mediocre engine the LOTS of potential but their interest in the bottom line is clouding the appropriate developement of the engine.

TWD · Jan 20, 2004

The reasons epic gives are completely legit. In order to patch ut2003 for it to be compatable with 2004 it would just be too much work. Time that could be spent doing usefull things.

As for proper documentation. More of the same. Epic doesn't have the time to waste writing up documentation so that complete n00bs out there can learn it. It is much better to leave it to the community. Most of unrealscript assumes that you already know c++ to begin with in which case you wouldn't need documentation you could just look at the code and learn that way.

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