KDR_11k
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Let's see... Console games cost 60 Euros, PC games 45. Why do I think that graphical complexity isn't part of the pricing equation?
CliffyB On Next-Gen Game Pricing
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ImaCarrot is right. I bet most of EA's cost in making games comes from licensing to use the name and likeness of almost everything. This is really a double-edged sword, though, because while they'd probably not spend the money for those licenses, no one would buy the game because everyone wants to play the real thing. To borrow a quote from a popular manifesto, no one wants to play as the Dallas Zombies with all-star QB Cletus F**khat. No one wants to run away from the cops in NFSMW in a Elude Copperhead that looks suspicously like a Dodge Viper but not really. Why? Who knows. It's just something gamers have come to want and expect.
With as much as they already f**k over their employees, I seriously doubt EA is charging higher prices to pay their programmers more, especially since development is getting easier and easier (ex: Unreal Engine 3's visual scripting system... no more programmers need for complex scripts because now the mapper can do it). No, they're doing it because they can, just like id did with Doom 3. They charged $55 rather than the usual $50 and everyone bought it anyway, while they raked in $5 extra for each of the millions of people that bought the game. What did that game offer to warrant that extra $5? Nothing. We got the same old crap running on a sh*t engine.
I bet EA gets paid a lot for companies to have their logo in their games. See that Best Buy sign go flying by in NFS? Best Buy probably paid them to have it there. How many company logos did you see in that game? Quite a sh*tload, and that's all money in EA's pocket. EA is raising their prices simply because they want more money. They're not doing anything new or worth the extra profit; they just want it.
If we really want prices to go down, we collectively have to put our foot down and show them that we're not going to buy a game for a price higher than $50. When will that happen though? Never, because people suck.
With as much as they already f**k over their employees, I seriously doubt EA is charging higher prices to pay their programmers more, especially since development is getting easier and easier (ex: Unreal Engine 3's visual scripting system... no more programmers need for complex scripts because now the mapper can do it). No, they're doing it because they can, just like id did with Doom 3. They charged $55 rather than the usual $50 and everyone bought it anyway, while they raked in $5 extra for each of the millions of people that bought the game. What did that game offer to warrant that extra $5? Nothing. We got the same old crap running on a sh*t engine.
I bet EA gets paid a lot for companies to have their logo in their games. See that Best Buy sign go flying by in NFS? Best Buy probably paid them to have it there. How many company logos did you see in that game? Quite a sh*tload, and that's all money in EA's pocket. EA is raising their prices simply because they want more money. They're not doing anything new or worth the extra profit; they just want it.
If we really want prices to go down, we collectively have to put our foot down and show them that we're not going to buy a game for a price higher than $50. When will that happen though? Never, because people suck.
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Let me see... back in 1994 PC games cost about 45 euro to 65 euro. This quickly changes within two years to 36-45 euro. Why? because the market grew a lot, sure the games also got more complex. Instead of 5 people they used 15 people to make a game. Then for years not much happened, games being sold vor 30 to 40 euro. And then, a couple of years ago they decided Doom 3 was worth 50 euro and more followed. So now games were sold between 30 and 50 euro. The most interesting games were in the bottom half. The games that sold at 50 euro would have done just as well at 40.
So, taking into account inflation game prices actually dropped a bit in those years because the price was the same. Ofcourse games got more complex and required more people.
On the other hand, game distribution got cheaper because there was a larger market. So, that would leave more money for the publishers. Now the big questions, why would buying a game via internet directly from the publisher have the exact same price as buying a real product through a retailer that also needs to buy food? Shouldn't it be cheaper because there's one less mouth to feed?
Ps, dollar euro exchange rate is about 1.25, so Doom3 has the pricetag of $62.50. (Note, I didn't take into accound the change in exchange rates over time, but I think it mostly cancelled out).
Here's an idea, I can spend 60 euro only once. I could buy 1 60 euro game, or 2 30 euro games. Now using statistics, buying two games has a more positive effect in the numbers.
So, taking into account inflation game prices actually dropped a bit in those years because the price was the same. Ofcourse games got more complex and required more people.
On the other hand, game distribution got cheaper because there was a larger market. So, that would leave more money for the publishers. Now the big questions, why would buying a game via internet directly from the publisher have the exact same price as buying a real product through a retailer that also needs to buy food? Shouldn't it be cheaper because there's one less mouth to feed?
Ps, dollar euro exchange rate is about 1.25, so Doom3 has the pricetag of $62.50. (Note, I didn't take into accound the change in exchange rates over time, but I think it mostly cancelled out).
Here's an idea, I can spend 60 euro only once. I could buy 1 60 euro game, or 2 30 euro games. Now using statistics, buying two games has a more positive effect in the numbers.
Sure ... but your idea of a 'premium' title = one which requires lots of licenses to pay (ie : crappy movie-game with all the original characters voices, etc)
That's not my kind of 'premium' title ... in fact 'Rome:Total War' and Civ4 would more likely to qualify as 'premium'.
I wonder what that guy is smoking, because the entire 360 line-up is many things but 'deep, rich and complex' are three words that don't even come near describing the content/experience. 'shallow, poor and simple' would be more like it.
On average prices have gone down (AFAIK Civ 1 cost the equivalent of +/- 75 Euro, Civ 4 cost a mere 50), but I've seen nothing that would be a good reason to increase prices. Sure development costs have increased, but better 3rd party tools (like Unreal-engine) have (or should) have helped to keep the overall costs down.
A publisher that specialises in sequels has even less reason to increase cost, unless they've got really crappy software that requires a complete rebuild just to add a new feature. They'd probably need more money to convince people to buy 'yet another sequel'(tm) and less to actually build it.
I was wanting to buy COD 2 but at £34.99 here in the UK, I'll give it a miss till the price drops below £30. Not paying that kinda money for a game that'll probably be done in a couple of days.
OICW said:
Quoted for truth. Being an Australian gamer myself it's insane some of the prices they'll expect from games these days. I remember back in the day when Quake first came out I would be able to get a copy for $40 AUD. When Quake 4 came out last month they were charging over twice as much, $90 AUD, which is simply a ridiculous amount for a game that doesn't really offer anything new.
These days most the games I buy come from the bargain bins because it's far more affordable for me to pick up a few games I've been interested in for a while for $10 - $20 each, rather than buying a brand new retail game for $80-100. The only circumstance in which I will go out and buy a game as soon as it's come out is if it's a game I KNOW will be worth my money (I usually do quite a bit of research on a title I'm very interested in). Half-Life 2 is a good example.
Rather than buying it retail, I found it was far better value to purchase it on Steam as part of the silver package. Not only did that work out $20-30 cheaper than the Collector's edition sold retail (which offered HL2, HL:S, CS:S), it also gave me access to Valve's ENTIRE back catalogue of games (granted I already had all the older games I wanted, I was effectively being given second copies of the games which is great for LANs) AND access to DOD:S when it came out. See now that's a deal WORTH paying $60 for.
Since buying HL2, FEAR is the only other game that I bought as soon as it came out (and the game was worth it, it delivered the best combat and AI I've seen in any game to date). Beyond that I've kept to the bargain bins because I generally don't like spending over a thousand dollars on games in a few months.
EA is rediculous. i doubt i will ever buy anything they publish in the future... especially at $60.
At the moment there are a ton of games for PC, DS, and GC that i want to buy... but they are so expensive, i will probably only end up getting one (civ 4, ofcourse)... i have a hard time shelling out $50 for a game all the time, and thus i usually only buy games every once in a while, and only the very best of them. if the average game cost more like $20 or $30 i would definately buy them more often... i would probably spend much more money overall, too. i spend a lot more money each year on movies than video games, because each time i see a movie, its like $10, which i dont mind spending pretty frequently.
I think lowering prices on games is a win-win situation. People would buy more games, atleast showing the same profit to the developers/publishers if not more, and the consumers would get the chance to play a larger variety of games.
At the moment there are a ton of games for PC, DS, and GC that i want to buy... but they are so expensive, i will probably only end up getting one (civ 4, ofcourse)... i have a hard time shelling out $50 for a game all the time, and thus i usually only buy games every once in a while, and only the very best of them. if the average game cost more like $20 or $30 i would definately buy them more often... i would probably spend much more money overall, too. i spend a lot more money each year on movies than video games, because each time i see a movie, its like $10, which i dont mind spending pretty frequently.
I think lowering prices on games is a win-win situation. People would buy more games, atleast showing the same profit to the developers/publishers if not more, and the consumers would get the chance to play a larger variety of games.
I don't see games being any more expensive than they used to be. I remember paying $50 for Bubble Bobble when I was a kid - with inflation that's pretty expensive.
To me, the problem is that gamers buy so many more games than they used to. These modern "cinematic" PC shooter titles with only 5-8 hours of gameplay and very little replay value are a big source of that problem. People end up buying a new one each month. Meanwhile, the only FPS games I've been playing since Jan 2005 have been UT2k4, Sam 1 (1st&2nd enc.) and Sam 2. That's not a lot of money for the amount of gameplay I'm getting out of them.
Really, I think the problem is the audience - these "movie blockbuster" style games (super sexy plot-driven short FPS titles) are great for people who want to buy the Game Of The Month, and that's what things like Gears of War promise to be, and those are the people who're going to get bit hard by prices. Meanwhile, those of us who like to suck the life out of an online title until we can't stand it anymore would do just fine with the same games at twice the price.
To me, the problem is that gamers buy so many more games than they used to. These modern "cinematic" PC shooter titles with only 5-8 hours of gameplay and very little replay value are a big source of that problem. People end up buying a new one each month. Meanwhile, the only FPS games I've been playing since Jan 2005 have been UT2k4, Sam 1 (1st&2nd enc.) and Sam 2. That's not a lot of money for the amount of gameplay I'm getting out of them.
Really, I think the problem is the audience - these "movie blockbuster" style games (super sexy plot-driven short FPS titles) are great for people who want to buy the Game Of The Month, and that's what things like Gears of War promise to be, and those are the people who're going to get bit hard by prices. Meanwhile, those of us who like to suck the life out of an online title until we can't stand it anymore would do just fine with the same games at twice the price.
It's not just EA, it's the whole damn industry.
Remember how expansion packs used to be $25-30? Did anyone not notice that Warcraft 3's exp cost $35, and EA has been following suit with $35 for Sims2 expansions?
Let's not forget that Half-Life 2 showed that people were willing to shell out $55 for a new game as well on PC.
Also, Cliffy needs to talk to Epic's biz side some more: GoW is preselling at $59.99 according to EBGames, right up there with Quake 4 for XBox360 :http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/257315.asp
Sad to say it, but I've been seriously starting to lose faith in the industry over the last year or so. And I know I'm not the only one.
Remember how expansion packs used to be $25-30? Did anyone not notice that Warcraft 3's exp cost $35, and EA has been following suit with $35 for Sims2 expansions?
Let's not forget that Half-Life 2 showed that people were willing to shell out $55 for a new game as well on PC.
Also, Cliffy needs to talk to Epic's biz side some more: GoW is preselling at $59.99 according to EBGames, right up there with Quake 4 for XBox360 :http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/257315.asp
Sad to say it, but I've been seriously starting to lose faith in the industry over the last year or so. And I know I'm not the only one.
€60 is the standardprice for console-games (Nintendo being the exception with cheaper prices). So GoW isn't more expensive, unless it means that it'll convert to €80 at release in Europe (however so far 360-prices were a 1-for-1 conversion) ...
Besides : it's not the industry, it's consumers that are the real problem.
As long as the fanboys keep paying these (often) ridiculous prices for their games, while the rest of the crowd uses the warez-route the businesses have an excellent excuse to keep the prices high.
Lowering prices may seem like a good idea, but the cheapskates out there aren't going to pay $30 as long as the warez-community exists (and given that 'copy-protection' causes more people to find those resources ... ).
Besides : it's not the industry, it's consumers that are the real problem.
As long as the fanboys keep paying these (often) ridiculous prices for their games, while the rest of the crowd uses the warez-route the businesses have an excellent excuse to keep the prices high.
Lowering prices may seem like a good idea, but the cheapskates out there aren't going to pay $30 as long as the warez-community exists (and given that 'copy-protection' causes more people to find those resources ... ).
how about a game thats more in line with movies so its like 3 hours long game, but its the best 3 hours of gameplay you ever had and the game is like 12$, perhaps having a lot of replay value to it, that makes to a cheaper game to buy and make, impulse buy price, shorter dev time, less risk for publisher, is in the range of small devs to make or even good mod teams, but if its only 3 hours long it would have to be 3 amazing hours of gameplay to warrent the shortness. I rekon it can be done myself, make the games shorter but much better game and much cheaper
Fordy said:
If you got a credit/debit card you might want to check out play.com. Only £27 (read: £26.99) + free delivery for COD 2.
And while we are at play.com, hit the pc games section and sniff out UT2007 pre-orders; £17.99!
I noticed even EA's games are more expensive on play.com.
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the online mail order game companies are always a lot cheaper, well for the UK anyway, I never buy in the high street.
How exactly does updating the player rosters and adding more blades of grass to the field, qualify your game as a "premium title" for which I must dutifully shell out $60 per year per sport?hal said:
And if you are charging for deep, rich games, do we get a discount for all the features that you cut out of your titles to make lauch date? I thought not.
To be fair, I don't think Epic has much control over the overhead MS is making on their game. Keep in mind that Epic basically gave away UT2004 (plus ECE) for free to people who owned UT2003.
Perfect Dark and Conker are the only games in recent memory that I paid full price for, and I'm sure most will agree those are worthy investments. Pretty much every game, I wait for a deal on. I waited on Morrowind and got the GOTY set for $20.
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KDR_11k
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I think EB just doesn't have any pricing information on GoW so they're assuming the standard price for x360 games for now. Online retailers are never reliable sources of information.
JaFO: There are more people than just the 60-Euro-payers and the warez kiddies, most people buy their games in a store as long as they can afford them and the price reflects the value the customer sees in it. Full price is justified for a PC game that gets tons of mods but you'd have to be out of your mind to pay 60 Euros for a shoot 'em up (even 30 is a lot for these games). Simpler or lower quality games should be cheaper, that way they're still worth the money. I wouldn't have bought Gungrave Overdose for 60 Euros but it was definitely worth the 15 they're selling it for.
JaFO: There are more people than just the 60-Euro-payers and the warez kiddies, most people buy their games in a store as long as they can afford them and the price reflects the value the customer sees in it. Full price is justified for a PC game that gets tons of mods but you'd have to be out of your mind to pay 60 Euros for a shoot 'em up (even 30 is a lot for these games). Simpler or lower quality games should be cheaper, that way they're still worth the money. I wouldn't have bought Gungrave Overdose for 60 Euros but it was definitely worth the 15 they're selling it for.
People > Power
Play.com is pretty much the only place I get games from, althought tbh I don't buy many games anymore. I got burned with a few pretty dodgy titles recently, so I'm cutting down to games I know will be worth it, which isn't a lot these days tbfh, especially when it comes to FPS games. There's virtually nothing worth waiting for out there outside of UT4.
livingtarget said:
Play.com is pretty much the only place I get games from, althought tbh I don't buy many games anymore. I got burned with a few pretty dodgy titles recently, so I'm cutting down to games I know will be worth it, which isn't a lot these days tbfh, especially when it comes to FPS games. There's virtually nothing worth waiting for out there outside of UT4.
Selerox said:
Quoted for truth. I always wait a good few weeks, till others give their opinion on a game, before making an investment. Unfortunately recently the quality of games seems to just be going down and down.
The idea of making a short but low priced game sounds like quite an interesting idea imo. Would also mean you could focus on making a lot more quality content rather than just stretching the gameplay out as long as possible (Which is what hl2 just seemed to do imo. I got sick of repetative "go this place, go that place, but it's 10,000 miles away so we can have 20 levels of the same stuff showing off 1 vehicle. The length of that game could be halfed without losing anything significant)
Dark Pulse
Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.
Remember, the Consumer decides in the end what prices are. Vote with your dollars and in the end EA will kind of notice that the money isn't rolling in, which will lead to a drop in prices.
Right now the companies are noticing and blaming used game sales (note the big stink raised about Best Buy offering used games). Guess what, companies of the world, that's what some of us are going to pay for your crap. Either match our demand or make your crap into not-crap.