I support this boycott. Epic needs to stop telling the community to go f*ck themselves and start supporting their game.
Boycott Cooking for PS3
- Thread starter Lethargy
- Start date
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Boycotting cooking your maps for PS3 will achieve precisely nothing.
Epic is not going to go "OMG some people aren't releasing maps for the PS3 now we are going to patch and modify UT3 for PC!". It's just not going to happen.
If your map is actually that good that people will actually care about it not being cooked for PS3, then someone will just take it and cook it anyways without your permission.
In fact if your map does happen to be that good (and most won't) then Epic will just cook them themselves and release them. (and yes, they can do that as all the content you make in UT3 belongs to Epic until you buy a commercial license and make it yours)
Epic is not going to go "OMG some people aren't releasing maps for the PS3 now we are going to patch and modify UT3 for PC!". It's just not going to happen.
If your map is actually that good that people will actually care about it not being cooked for PS3, then someone will just take it and cook it anyways without your permission.
In fact if your map does happen to be that good (and most won't) then Epic will just cook them themselves and release them. (and yes, they can do that as all the content you make in UT3 belongs to Epic until you buy a commercial license and make it yours)
actually a pretty neat idea, just make stuff unplayable on ps3s and or dont cook anything for it, or include necessary code that makes it unfeasible to use on a console.
yaknow, i thought about this the other day and no its not any more immature than the hollywood writers going on strike except hey, they actually get paid for what they do
maybe this will all get sorted out in a year and the game will be solid and COMPLETE and there wont be any complaints about this kinda stuff, but till then, it might just make a statement, and as has been mentioned, like the pc players, many pc modders have already moved onto other games and those that are left are not too happy.
ps. ps3 players, this has nothing to do with you or anyone disliking consoles, its got ta do with the game being unfinished for the PC, the 'bread n butter' customers who are the modders who create all the thousands of tc's, modules, models, skins etc for free and for love of the UT game.
yaknow, i thought about this the other day and no its not any more immature than the hollywood writers going on strike except hey, they actually get paid for what they do
maybe this will all get sorted out in a year and the game will be solid and COMPLETE and there wont be any complaints about this kinda stuff, but till then, it might just make a statement, and as has been mentioned, like the pc players, many pc modders have already moved onto other games and those that are left are not too happy.
ps. ps3 players, this has nothing to do with you or anyone disliking consoles, its got ta do with the game being unfinished for the PC, the 'bread n butter' customers who are the modders who create all the thousands of tc's, modules, models, skins etc for free and for love of the UT game.
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But what if, and I'm being a real optimist here, Epic did agree to make the requested changes and it ultimately made the game better for both ends of the community? Even if they didn't patch the ps3 version, if the pc version were better that would mean more people would be drawn to it, and theoretically more production of custom content. I'm not a mapper so I really don't have much credibility here... but it seems like an unofficially formed mapper's union wouldn't be the worst idea, strike or no strike. Exploitation of free labor seems like the sort of thing that would call for it, and they could decide courses of action as a whole to possibly facilitate real change.
BOiNG said:
well... ****.
edit: good, I was really hoping that wasn't true.
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Yeah, that sounded extremely shady. I think you have rights to anything you create, whether it's a map or a paper you write. Otherwise Microsoft could take your school report because you wrote it in Word.
I think the boycott is an interesting idea. I'd like to see mappers join it just to see what comes of it.
Stop telling lies. Epic doesn't own your creations. They own their art assets and allow you to use them in your creation under certain rules. If they cook and release a map for PS3 (or simply distribute the map) without the creator's consent they violate the copyright of the creator. Only if Epic hired you to create stuff for them they will own your creations. But most maps created for UT3 are co-owned by the creator and Epic (unless you don't use any of Epic's assets).
Sorry but you're wrong. Epic does not own user made maps. The EULA just says you can't charge money for the maps, not that Epic owns them.
If Epic really wants the mod community dead, they'll claim ownership of people's unpaid work, and drive whats left of the community off to other games.
Come to think of it, the way epic has been dealing with their PC 'bread and butter' customers, it wouldn't surprise me if they started doing this...
There were those things shortly before the cooking tools came out. There were custom maps, but no cooking tools, so Epic cooked a few, and then their forums got flooded with PS3 players asking them to cook stuff for them. They may have asked the original author's permission, I don't know, but they were cooking other people's things for a while.
And call me cynical, but I still sort of suspect the reason they said they have "no plans to separate the forums by platform" when the majority asked for it was so the PC players would get bored of the mostly PS3-related forum and leave, so they wouldn't have to delete as many complaints.
And what exactly did Epic do to PC gamers?
Bad UI?
Releasing at a bad time?
That's not really pissing on the PC community.
That's just Epic being pulled about 50 different ways and they're trying to do what they can.
Unreal Tournament 3 is still one of the best games I've played all year... beats Mario Galaxy (And I'm a Mario Fan)... but admittedly just falls short of Orange Box (and I don't like Valve as a company...)
Quit feeling inferior and just enjoy what you're given... it's pretty bad when you need to invent issues to blame Epic for... ****.
I'ma make my map -- I'ma do with it what I want (I might cook it for PS3, I might not -- who the **** knows... who the **** cares.)
Games are about enjoyment -- if you hate feeling like you got ****ed up the ass -- don't sit on a pole.
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Yes, do exactly that if you want to ensure mediocrity and low-quality in the future.
Such negativity, I really don't understand why people are hating on the ability of designers to reach a larger audience by allowing (though limited) them to cook their PC content for PS3.
It almost seems this thread is another extension of the platform 'we demand improvements or some complaint everyone's already heard 5 million times'. If UT3 had released as a new franchise rather than an instalment in a running franchise people would've been drooling over this and praising it. Phopojijo is right that games are meant to be played, not bitched about. Play the game and enjoy the custom content people make for it, or uninstall and do something else. If you feel PS3 owners are getting treated better (no idea why you would think that, as PC users can make their own levels, PS3 users cannot), then by all means get yourself a PS3 and UT3 for it and enjoy that.
It almost seems this thread is another extension of the platform 'we demand improvements or some complaint everyone's already heard 5 million times'. If UT3 had released as a new franchise rather than an instalment in a running franchise people would've been drooling over this and praising it. Phopojijo is right that games are meant to be played, not bitched about. Play the game and enjoy the custom content people make for it, or uninstall and do something else. If you feel PS3 owners are getting treated better (no idea why you would think that, as PC users can make their own levels, PS3 users cannot), then by all means get yourself a PS3 and UT3 for it and enjoy that.
NO COOKING FOR CONSOLES!!!! IF THEY WANT (OR MAKE) A CUSTOM MAP OR MOD, THEY NEED TO PURCHASE UT PC
Exactly.
I'd be inclined to agree with you if UT3 was in fact low quality.
I'm all for forcing developers to work hard for my money...
If you read my post and not just quoted a single line out of it you'd see my point.
My point wasn't "Roll over and die"... it was "BITCH AT SOMETHING WORTH BITCHING AT!".
Don't like UT3? You don't need to. I do -- I find it on my short list for Game of the Year.
Apart from the UI (which is a non-issue for me... though it would have been nicer to have more mod-support and features in it) -- the only thing which annoyed me about UT3 was it's instability.
That turned out to be drivers since after my upgrade to 169.28's... haven't had a problem with UT3. ((Well, I had a couple of runtime errors sporadically -- but that was my motherboard and affected my entire computer... not just ut3; been 100% since the mobo swap))
So in summary:
I haven't had a problem with anything in UT3... apart from the interface... that was Epic's fault.
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You guys dont seem to get it...
this is not about hating consoles or hating Epic. Alot of us love Epic and some PC players (shudder) own and love consoles
its about the fans and players who love UT and wanted it to succeed and expected it to continue with the same high quality and level of professional development that Epic has delivered in the past.
its about customers who bought a product that was NOT FINISHED.
I agree UT3 is an fantastic game, i have fun playing it many hours a week - i dont play any other MP games including old versions of UT anymore cause UT3 is really good. But anyone who even hints that Epic delivered a finished product for the PC that stands up to its predecessors in polish and quality is smokin something funny or never seriously played a previous UT before... personally i wouldnt be playing this game if it wasnt UT - kapish? oh and if ppl thought the reviews that ranged from 6 to 8 outta 10 were bad, if this wasnt UT those same reviews would have been much worse.
Its also true we'll never know why UT3 was released as-is where-is and when it was, but we are all hoping it gets the spit and polish it deserves and the top notch treatment we know Epic can deliver.
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As far as boycotting PS3 or other consoles with mods, I think its unfortunate, but its a fair way for modders to say "hey!" and make a statement. Not against consoles, but about the condition of the relationship between the devs (who have always been nothing but #1 in delivering the goods) and those modders. Alot of semi-pro, amateur, hobbyist devs and fans were looking forward to another MSU style contest, i know i was. But with the state the game was delivered in, its kinda hard to picture at this point and thats a real shame.
Maybe making content thats useable on PCs ONLY is a way to let folks know that those modders who are still hanging tough out here are still waiting for the UT3 we were hyped on... that we believed in and that we know Epic usedta love as much as we do
Maybe, making a statement like that will remind folks that alot of mod makers and players take the state of the game pretty seriously too and releasing an obviosuly untested product was not a good thing.ps. just to qualify stuff - im pissed i'd even consider this a 1/2 baked idea cause honestly, though I personally have no love for console gameplay, i was looking forward to a much wider audience playing mods with my work included in them... now to even haveta consider something like this is a real shame imnsho.
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Most mappers I know and modders in general do the work they do for the love of creating something fun that they can share with lots of people who will also hopefully enjoy it. The problem with a boycott is that there are far more people who have this game for the consoles and who are sharing interest in downloading user created content. A lot of the PC buyers seem snobby to me this time around. Wanting only official content because they fear due to the complexity of the new engine a lot of the user created stuff will be crappy, and also they want content from known community mappers and those folks are not cranking out anything for the PC other than Hourence and Slain so far. DGunreal released a little something but nothing major yet. So without support from a lot of the household names from the UT-UT2K4 days the PC folks are not downloading content. Meanwhile PS3 users are starving for any content they can get their grubby mitts on and so if you want lots of people who are enthusiastically looking forward to your content and you love to create it is hard not to give those folks your creation.
Now with that said Epic is making things more difficult than necessary to prepare content for the PS3. There are no concrete guidelines about what will work and what won't other than the custom sounds issue. And as someone who cooks a lot of maps for the PS3 as requested by the level designers themselves, I can tell you those times when the cooking process works 100% with no errors or warnings and it unpacks successfully on the PS3 but hangs on loading are extremely frustrating and yet Epic has no solution or even suggestion for this issue. Not to mention the extremely poor support regarding cooking mutators and character models (the character models are even broken at this point, not having a head and yet Epic's solution is to make the models with helmets ... excuse me????) and no support for TC Mods ...
So to me Epic themselves are confused about which platform to put their all into ... each version is lacking in many areas and even with two patches the PC version is still far short of what at least 85% of us expected. No voicepacks completely cuts out a huge number of modders and the issue with not being able to use custom sounds in PS3 levels is also a repellent for many devs who simply do not have the time or inclination to prepare two different versions of their maps ... one specifically for the PS3, that is ridiculous for Epic to put that on the shoulders of mappers who have to hear all the crap from PS3 gamers on the official forums. Will Epic even let us use the high poly versions of the character models ingame or fix motion blur for the PC ... I mean there are so many issues. So really a boycott makes little to no sense and for those who get their pleasure from seeing people play with their content there is nothing to even think about ... "gamers who like to play UT3 will get content no matter what platform they choose as long as my content works" is what the devs are thinking and acting upon.
Now with that said Epic is making things more difficult than necessary to prepare content for the PS3. There are no concrete guidelines about what will work and what won't other than the custom sounds issue. And as someone who cooks a lot of maps for the PS3 as requested by the level designers themselves, I can tell you those times when the cooking process works 100% with no errors or warnings and it unpacks successfully on the PS3 but hangs on loading are extremely frustrating and yet Epic has no solution or even suggestion for this issue. Not to mention the extremely poor support regarding cooking mutators and character models (the character models are even broken at this point, not having a head and yet Epic's solution is to make the models with helmets ... excuse me????) and no support for TC Mods ...
So to me Epic themselves are confused about which platform to put their all into ... each version is lacking in many areas and even with two patches the PC version is still far short of what at least 85% of us expected. No voicepacks completely cuts out a huge number of modders and the issue with not being able to use custom sounds in PS3 levels is also a repellent for many devs who simply do not have the time or inclination to prepare two different versions of their maps ... one specifically for the PS3, that is ridiculous for Epic to put that on the shoulders of mappers who have to hear all the crap from PS3 gamers on the official forums. Will Epic even let us use the high poly versions of the character models ingame or fix motion blur for the PC ... I mean there are so many issues. So really a boycott makes little to no sense and for those who get their pleasure from seeing people play with their content there is nothing to even think about ... "gamers who like to play UT3 will get content no matter what platform they choose as long as my content works" is what the devs are thinking and acting upon.
As far as the quality of the PC UT3 goes I have to agree with UG ... it just doesn't feel stable when compared to past versions. I mean when I play UT2K4 I never even think that it could crash my system or cause a blue screen and it never has ... but every time I run UT3 there is a part of me that wonders if the game will freeze up on me or crash my PC or cause a BSOD. I just never feel 100% with this version and I don't change the settings at all when I play UT2K4 ... the same overclock settings and SLI are in effect. And UT2K4 acts perfectly ... that is such a well done product. So when I bought UT3 I really felt confident it would be even more stable but wow compared to even UT2K3 ... still each version of UT2Kx I have has been patched at least 3 times. But its hard to see that even two or three more patches could really raise UT3 to the level of UT2K3/4.
That is not true at all. If this game had been called something else but released in the same consolized and buggy/unstable state with no little guidance on cooking anything but the simplest of mods for a promised platform people would be saying the same thing. Or have you forgotten about Pariah?