Check your fire! is Not always a team m8

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It's a video game, you have to draw the "real" line somewhere. [/quote]

I grow so tired of people saying that crap.
Inf is very hard trying NOT to be just a video game, but a simulation. If you like video games you want Strike Farce or Tactless Ops.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I get all worked up for INF, and my finger starts to itch. I don't usually pay attention to what is "said" while I'm alive looking for the enemy. And typing leaves me open to get shot. And if the team colors are really close, and it's dark, I've been known to kill a teammate here and there.[/quote]

Exactly YOU are the problem, not the skins. YOU refuse to think before you shoot. Don't balme the colours for that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Not everybody has mad Fur skillz[/quote]

Well ofcourse you don't
But this is not about "skillz" it's about using your eyes and yur brain. I simply look before i shoot. Yes i may occasionally hit a teammate by accident, this is mainly if i get surprised in cqb. But at long range there is no justifying FF. If you are not sure if it's the enemy you don't fire. Simple as that. IRL you don't just fire at anything that moves.

<A HREF="http://www.rlgaming.com" TARGET=_blank>
Reviewer, Contributing Columnist Real Life Gaming</A>

Newcomers please check here before asking questions that might allready have been answered,
a little effort goes a long way.

So am I the only one to use teamview if I'm in doubt?

Yeah, I KNOW it's a little unrealistic, but if I have a long range (possible) target in my sights and I'm not too sure which team they're on, I hit f5 to cycle through my teammates, or the view from team buttons (set on my keyboard as the numberpad keys). This gives me a very good idea of where my teammates are at.

One drawback- you need to be fast and in a secure spot to do this, as whilst your POV is from your teammates, you are totally unaware of who (or what) is happening nearby.

I know that some may see doing this as not being realistic, but on public servers, no-one really bothers giving locations on teamsay.

Just a thought for all you snipers out there who need glasses

Don 't blame me- I didn't do it

Colours, ID Tags etc.

Jaymian, don't get me wrong, I think that the INF team has done an outstanding job. Infiltration is my absolute favourite UT mod hands down. It's just that this is a suggestion forum and I do honestly believe that my suggestions are worthwhile. I also enjoy a bit of verbal jousting now and then. ;-> Now onto Fur.... While friendly fire casulaties are a horrible fact of war, your example wasn't the best one. When I was a soldier, my unit trained with American, British, German and Australian soldiers. The Americans are widely known to be the worst in terms of FF casualties. Check the history books. Think about it; a TANK was destroyed. A tank is a big vehicle to say the least. As far as camouflage goes, the Canadian Forces use an olive drab colour scheme. The Americans primarily use a woodland pattern. IRL (to borrow your term once again), I can easily tell the difference between the two patterns, *especially* if I have a scope! So, at the very least, ID tags should definitely be used when a scope is utilized. In addition, IRL gear is packed differently for all of the nations. That makes a HUGE difference in the silhouette - one of the main ways to identify the enemy and also why you don't stand on a ridge for too long in battle. In fact, proper silhouette identification is one of the primary ways in which a TOW missile team identifies their enemies - and it works! A TOW missile team is MUCH further away from the enemy than a ground troop and yet the team members are able to successfully identify the enemy. So, identifying the enemy isn't all that hard, huh? Implementing proper silhouettes into the game would be a step towards true realism or RL. However, it would also required more code for the game. ID tags would be child's play by comparison and would serve the same purpose. You're right, IRL there are no ID tags, however IRL (and that's what we're talking about here) I can see a hell of a lot better than I can with my monitor resolution. Like one of the posts said, "it's not real unless you're out there doing it". The line must drawn in terms of realism and playability. ID tags serve to draw that line equitably. You provide no alternative to the current situation. My solution provides more balanced gameplay and enables users to more fully use their *real* senses by making up for limitations in the hardware. You say you want realism, and yet ignore the fact that the game, by it's very nature, isn't all that realistic. I'm not sure if you care whether or not you kill your own team in INF, but I do. When it happens, I think to myself "Damn! There's no way I would have done that IRL!" Most of my kills occur at approximately less than 100 real world metres. On daylight maps, there's no way that IRL I would shoot my own guys. On dark maps, the distance is reduced, but my RL accuracy would not. Finally, if I have a scope IRL, I never make a mistake in daylight and very rarely at night (certainly FAR less than in the current build of INF). I was rated as a marksman as a soldier, which means IRL I was extremely accurate and didn't rack up ff kills by the dozen. Snipers are even better than me and they don't make mistakes at all because of their keen eyesight as well as their powerful scopes. Given all of these arguments, it is impossible not to comprehend (well...) that ID tags serve a useful purpose and, at the very least, should be used in conjunction with sniping. The defense rests

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Just this last month during a SWAT operation out in the County. There were 3 fireteams...2 entry teams...and 1 sniper team. The sniper team stays way back 2 of them together...watching for the enemy gunman. Well the 1st team entered the house..well the 2nd team lead by the commanding Sgt. went around back. Well they broke off radio communication cause they thought they heard the gunman. They didn't respond for several minutes and the Sgt. forgot to report back in...as he rounded the back corner of the house with a rifle he found on the ground..the snipers could only see the frame of a man with a hunting rifle...after making the decision and asking over the radio...no response...they fired...they shot Sgt. Shadwick through the left side of the kevlar vest through his spleen diaphragm out the other side and into the house...luckily after being in critical condition for a week, he survived.
[/quote]

This sounds like INF to me. This was posted in the radar thread, but I guess we could use it here too. Game, Simulation, whatever. It still can't be real. People need ID tags, and now that someone has meantioned it, radar of some sort. If you have time to sit there and think while someone kills you, then that is your business. It IS still a game with teams and winners and losers. Either way, I'm sure the INF team will make the right decision. I'm spent on this topic.
Jaymian

www.bartkus.net/chopchop



[This message was edited by jaymian on Mar 29, 2001 at 15:43.]

I stick with my story... use your eyes and there is no problem, i play on 800x600 and 16 bit coulours and i have no problem identifying my oponents unless theyw ear teh exact same camo.

ID tags simply allow for too much abuse, like scanning over dark areas to check for enemies.

ID tags turn the game into a simple point and click game rather then a strategic simulation.
Look, think, shoot that is the order in which you should operate. not shoot, look, think.

<A HREF="http://www.rlgaming.com" TARGET=_blank>
Reviewer, Contributing Columnist Real Life Gaming</A>

Newcomers please check here before asking questions that might allready have been answered,
a little effort goes a long way.

Everyone, give it up and kwitchabitchin. You all have very good points, just leave it to the team, they haven't failed us yet.

Guns have a point-and-click interface-
Lord Perrin