VERY IMPORTANT POLL! Concerning future of mods and multiplayer

I'm glad we got this far without a flamewar

Sure CSHP was great and everything, but I personally will not download a DLL file that could break every mod I have installed. If that means all I am left with is "unprotected servers which are havens for cheaters and aimbots", then that is what I will play on.

75% of people prefer a clean game of UT than mods. Where did that statistic come from, just out of curiousity. It's a well known fact that 43% of all statistics are made up on the spot. 55% of all people know that.

I would rather play "what" I choose in the way of mods, and not "how" I choose. Besides, all I ever get is 0wned. I don't care really, but when you can't get a frag to save your life, literally in UT, what does it matter if it is a good player or an aimbot?

I'll keep my nice mods which give me a break from the same dozen weapons, thanks.

Not to sound pessimistic but what happens after the DLL is broken? What then? It's a continuous cycle IMO and I am getting out of it. I will keep my mods.

Thanks for reading, and don't take any of that as flames that was NOT the intention.

"75% of people prefer a clean game of UT than mods. Where did that statistic come from, just out of curiousity. "

Psst... Hey Nightmare...

/me points to the top of the thread.

I've already got two versions of UT installed. I'm fortunate that I've got room for a "vanilla" version and a mod version. I'd happily d/l the .dll.

I would certainly hate to see someone labelled a cheater because of a mod/skin etc. Is there a way to not let them on the server, and let them know why? Like when the server was at capacity message would come up, instead it could say "filename here" not allowed or something.

Placing news of the d/l in UT News in the browser's a great idea.

Thank you all for your hard work.

you know, there is a much simpler answer to the aimbot cheater problem than all the versions of cshp will ever give, IMO, though it may be harder to detect other cheats..

vote mod. vote to kick/ban cheaters. simple, effective. someone will only get through a couple of games before enough players realize what's up to force them off..

Well, almost exactly like Rooster said, the only thing in my UT directory is UT itself. Plain.
I love CTF first and foremost closely followed by dm. So, to me, mods or no, I would prefer a cheet free environment with fewer mods. Although, from what I understand, this should not occur.
And heck yeah I'll download that dll. I'll download 5 dlls if I have to. If you don't trust the dll, don't get it. Play elsewhere...
I would hate for it to come down to psswding all servers. I can't even play on swine anyomore. The Roost is my permanent home. It's comforting to know that Rooster, you would get this on your server... right?


You've got my blessing DrSin and usaar33 and anyone else working towards a cheat free environment. Rock on.


ps. Just because one hasn't seen cheaters on their fave server, does not mean they don't exist. They're plagueing 10 other servers for the one they're not on.
And it will get worse, cause cheats spread with time.

What SiN writes sounds better than what I first thought. As usual I trust that he is going a reasonable way and does what is necessary to stop cheats, but at the same time affect mods and bother clients as little as possible.

SiN,
there is one thing that I'm concerned about: I assume new cheats will continue to appear and it will be necessary to uprade CSHP regulary. Would all clients have to download and install a UMOD every time CSHP is upgraded from now on? That would be a pain in the ass. Can you make CSHP modular, consisting of a one-time client-side installation and a part that is auto-downloaded from servers and that is updated as new cheats appear? In ideal case even the servers should auto-download the info about new cheats from a central server. This way neither the players nor the server admins would have to pay attention about new versions.

As soon as players need to install something client side, we need to make sure that all players, especially newbies and those who don't play that regulary, are informed about what they have to do. Otherwise a large number of players will end up frustrated, cos they are rejected from most servers. I hope after Steve's statement on the CSHP forum the other days, Epic will be willing to provide you with the necessary support and put the info on the Ubrowser news page and on www.unrealtournament.com


One last question: Is it much harder to hack a DLL than it is to code an aimbot?

Originally posted by DrSiN
.. some have the mysterious ability to track people through walls. It happens.

Click to expand...

Thank Asus for that. They made a driver for their cards that let you see through walls. http://www.dailyradar.co.uk/news/game_news_460.html
Now rumors says there are hacked drivers so you can use this cheat with other cards as well. And people use them.
If you can make a protection for that it would be great but I understand that this may be impossible.
Btw, You do a great job, Dr Sin. Thumbs up.

Maybe I misundertood, but am i right to say mods will only work on cshp servers if u(DR.Sin) add them somehow ?

Meaning that all the popular mods would be supported and just the ones hardly any1 plays except for on private passworded servers where cshp isn't need.


Also about the kick voting thing I have seen one that has a gui that pops up at the end of the map where u can vote for a map or to kick a player and it also,let's u bind the key in that thing that pops up so most ppl would work out to bind the key and would even be able to kick ppl mid game, unlike cs wher eu have to type listplayers then remember the # of the player and type vote 45217


Edit : what about a white bit of text saying what version of cshp is running when u enter the server ?

Just to add another side to the issue, has anyone thought about going after the people who produce the cheats? After all, they're illegally modifying Epic's protected work. Of course, there's always the argument that it's hard to pinpoint exactly where cheats originate from, but if virus writers are eventually found, then couldn't the same happen with aimbot writers? They're both illegal, and designed to disrupt.

I think Dr Sin should be applauded for his work, and Legend would be well advised to take him on-board to advise on Unreal 2. Imagine what kind of anti-cheat security they could put into Unreal 2 with him around.

well i support any attempt to get rid of cheaters.. I play swine all the time, and yes, there are aimboters on there constantly... BUt, u know, aimboters are the least of our worries. There are, trackers, health cheats, shield belt timers, redeemer and boot timers, shockball trackers, oneclick dodge cheats.. the list goes on..
tell me, how are you going to know really for sure if someone is using one of these cheats? Aimbots are a little more obvious..
I say keep up the good work Doc SIN..

Fighying cheaters is worth it.

A cheat free environment is worth it. It's a sad fact but it's true, all efforts should be made to keep UT as cheat free as possible. Thanks DrSin for your good work.

Samiam, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is cheating, with or without CSHP.

Rooster, the poll here is not a valid stat to who has or doesn't have mods.

Dr Sin...call me naive, but I was under the assumption that Usaar and Dark were working with you. So when he posted his statements, I took that as you saying all this and felt this .dll was the wrong path to take. However, my opinion still stands. I think you should go another less intrusive path to battle cheaters. Whether or not the majority on this forum don't use mods, WE ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE PLAYING UT.

Every game developer has seen the importance of the mod community and how it helps a game live longer. Although I do want a cheat free multiplayer enviroment, I don't want something that will hinder the mod community. Sadly, the mod community only has 10 months...then we will jump ship to U2 and UW.

Ironically, the only mod I have is Rocket Arena and I don't even play it that often. But I am looking at the big picture and know that anything that will hinder the popularity of mods will limit the life of the game. Is it fair to punish mod makers because of cheaters? Yes, you all may not play mods but some of you do have mods or mutes installed. Now, get a thousand newbies looking to install a mod, either for public or private use, only to find out its a big hassle.

Many mods today aren't used because of bugs in early versions. But when these bugs were fixed, some wouldn't download it (once bitten, twice shy). Now these newbies (the ones who add to the popularity of the game) have to decide on installing two versions of UT just to play. Hello, most of these people don't live by UT and just want to play a simple game with some variation presented by mods. It's bad enough people are turned off by UT because of in game bugs, then to add some more problems by limiting servers and the possibility of them being accused of cheating. I'm sorry, but that's a bit selfish.

So, unless this .dll leaves mods alone, I will not download it. Sin, I'm sure you will create a good anticheat. Respects to you, but I don't like this idea and, at this point, think its wrong. Maybe with more information, I'll change my mind.

BTW, if you read the mailbag...you will see how I feel about cheaters. Yes, I may sound hypocritical because I claim cheaters ruin the game and community. But in this case, I'm picking the lesser of two evils. (not that Sin's work is evil, but you know what I mean

in game bugs?

where do you get this stuff?

Originally posted by Prophetus][PuF][
Samiam, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is cheating, with or without CSHP.

Click to expand...

u think so huh? maybe if u are a newbie running around with an aimbot on all the time..
How can u really tell if someone just turns it on for 4 secs? Just enough to kill that flag carrier he's chasing... No one would ever know.. regardless if u speced him or not.. How bout a shock ball tracker? I know plenty of people who can hit a ball after a dodge.. But, how could u really tell if someone else was using a tracker? unless he is just plan being stupid with it.? ANd unless u have someone specing someone, how u gonna really know if he is using a timer? Or, how bout someone using a tracker? Can u really be sure its a tracker? or is it just someone who spams a lot and has great intuition...

The vast majority of UT players dont visit forums, they arent in clans, and they dont care about cheating.

Hey,

As a person who has about 7 or 8 mods installed on his system (included the un-CHSP'd Strike Force) I have the mod users viewpoint. And unless there is an easy way to bundle it with mods, I wouldn't d/l it just for the cheat-free enviroment. I think that cheaters and llamas ruin the game, but I'd also like to believe that there are less cheaters then we'd like to believe. And personally, if a person needs to feel good by using an aimbot to own me, fine. I know I get laid and have a good job, my game performance is really low on my self-worth index. I am all for a cheat-free enviroment, but not at the potential expense of the innovations and creativity I find in the mod enviroment.

I feel that the responsibility lies in the server admins and the community acting on it, rather then a program that might disable what you have installed and like. (No, the government only needs your registry files for your protection, really). I'd rather see a program that detects, and then tally's and sends a log to the server admin. I'm not a code monkey so I don't know if it can be done, but if it could detect and send the admin the info, and then make it up to the admjn to ban the players IP, that would be best. Let the community police itself, but give them a tool that enables them to do it.

In the ending of rant, bottom line is, give us as much protection as you can, but not at the cost of the creativity of the community. I've met great players who have only bought UT based on a mod that was available. It would suck to go to all that effort and then "Sorry, your Mod is not supported. Please go play on an offical CSHP server! Thanks for your support!"

Is there a good reason why these anticheat modifications could not be officially supported in a patch from Epic? What do they say? Stick it in with a new map pack and some new models for bait.

I guess I've probably seen all the CSHP versions downloading at one time or another. It doesn't bother me. It wouldn't bother me to download patch 4xx if it incorporated the latest anti-cheat code. I don't see what some people are so steamed about a dll for. Play on earlier versions of the game and take your chances. Play on the latest version and be practically guaranteed a legal game. No problem, if Epic would lead the way.