Is anyone else worried of ut2k7?

I don't know how people can say ut99 was more friendly towards noobs than ut2k4. I see huge point splits in ut99 DM servers, even when I was the newest person playing there. ut2k4 demo servers aren't anywhere as bad as what I see in some ut99 servers. People saying it's hard to get a frag for a noob on a ut2k4 demo server are plain wrong. When I was playing around on a demo server. This noob could barely even move(didn't even know there was a jump button) and his settings had autoswitch enabled. He ended up getting 10 points over the course of the game, just by pressing click and the forward button. Ofcourse, I helped him out a bit too, by giving him 5 of those frags by throwing him different weapons and letting him shoot me while he just stood in a single spot. It's funny how he automatically switched to the highest weapon I threw at him.

ut99 on the other hand is way too hard for a newbie. Six load rockets, flak, ripper spam all are over-rated and not very effective if used in a noob manner. Plus sniper is way too easy to whore in ut99. So the casual gamer has way too much leverage against a noob.

I guess the default settings in ut2k4 are crappier than in ut99(fov change with slope, stupidly high sens, etc), but ut99 compensates with it's extremely exploitable user.ini settings.

I could hit every moving shock combo possible, plus double shock combo and time 150 and 100 plus health, but I still consistently got less than a fourth of the highest score in the ut99 DM server. That means that there is an obviously high learning curve. And I saw people that had a total score of 3 or less and I would like to think those people weren't entirely new to ut99 as I was.

gregori said:

Were Epic not going to include a ranking system that matched players with players of similar skill level, so not too make it too easy or too hard, just based on your skill level

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All you have to do is poke around a Halo2 forum a bit to see how well that works. ~_^
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I've always wanted to be able to play this series online, I've been playing the Unreal series since the first one, but by the time I had a connection that could even begin to play it, I could hardly get a foothold. It'd be nice to have the playing field, of not razed, at least evened out a little bit so that those of us who aren't new to the series, but for other reasons are new to online play could actually get our feet in the door. The Vets aren't the only people who matter, if you only make something for the people whohave already mastered it, it'll become completely niche like XMP (for the most part) and not grow/thrive as it should.
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F the newbies, yes, drive your beloved series into niche-dom, stagnation, and death out of sheer mindless elitism, good job! Ok, that was a little uncalled-for, but I miss the days of U1 co-op where people actually used to HELP new players for the sake of the community and the life of the game, not drive them off out of, out of... why are people trying to kill-off the community anyway?

Its just a game. If you cant learn to play, just go back to CS.

EggBoy said:

- More 'down to earth' map locations, less abstract sci-fi stuff, more cohesive storyline, better singleplayer experience.

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O GOD NO!, play Battlefield or CS if you want more down to earth locations,
Unreal and UT are all about a variety of fantastical Sci FI settings. That was part of the charm of the original UT.

If anything they need more abstract, out of this world, sci fi stuff, not ten million rustfactory warehouse maps

My only real worry are people who will bitch, whine and complain about everything that's not perfect. I'm positive there will be a dozen threads on the official forums about stupid crap like "omg teh new helbendar duzen look liek teh helbendar ne more", "wtf why they take out assolt rifel it was much betar den enforcars" and "it duzent feel like ut2k4, its completely different!"

I have pro in my name.

Does that make me pro?

"Good game" and"Nice shot" vs "Cheater" and "spammer" and "camper" ...

Sijik said:

... why are people trying to kill-off the community anyway?

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Because that's the only way they can be the 'best' ...

Anyways ... while Epic can help in making the game fun to play.
It's the community that really has the ability to make or break Epics' hard work.

The problem isn't in how hard/easy it is for a 'newbie' to kill a veteran.
It's the attitude displayed by those calling themselves veteran or even 'pro' that determines the experience.

It's the (almost inevitable) "weapon X is overpowered/nerfed" complaints in forums. And it's pretty easy to predict that we'll see similar complaints about the Necris & Axxon vehicle-sets

In essence this means that Epic can only provide the ingredients.
It's the players themselves that determine what the meal will taste like.

No-one just plays the game anymore...

JaFO said:

It's the attitude displayed by those calling themselves veteran or even 'pro' that determines the experience.

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It's fair to say that we're ****ed then. I'd much rather we had a big community with less sequely pros than a small, hardcore community full of elitist wankers tbh.

I'd much rather the game catered more to the masses, as long as there's at least something there for the veteran players to get into.

Amen to that.
Preach on Brothers JaFO and Selerox........

Fuzzle said:

My only real worry are people who will bitch, whine and complain about everything that's not perfect. I'm positive there will be a dozen threads on the official forums about stupid crap like "omg teh new helbendar duzen look liek teh helbendar ne more", "wtf why they take out assolt rifel it was much betar den enforcars" and "it duzent feel like ut2k4, its completely different!"

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My Sentiments exactly. On the day of release, this forums will be filled with two types of post:

1: Why wont my 64mb radeon 8500 run this game at max detail?

2: OMG epic nerfed the game by adding another raised body panel to the goliath.....

Selerox said:

It's fair to say that we're ****ed then. I'd much rather we had a big community with less sequely pros than a small, hardcore community full of elitist wankers tbh.

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Exactly my sentiments

Originally Posted by Selerox
I'd much rather the game catered more to the masses, as long as there's at least something there for the veteran players to get into.

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No thanks, Id rather epic continue the current trend with the game. I dont want to end up with some ultra realistic tactical/barbie shooter with a middle eastern/britney spears sound track.

If epic want to make it better for non veterans then some decent training missions are needed, unreal tournament has grown to have alot of depth. If they did follow current trends and make it more "real" I think that would be a major mistake and goes against the whole nature of "unreal"....

Hooray for originality!!

Edit: is anyone else as happy as I am this isnt an EA title??

Making a game that is appealing to the masses doesn't mean a realistic FPS. Epic don't really need to worry about tailoring UT2007 so that it will appeal to veterans and pro's - as long as the game is fun and playable there will always be a section of the fan base that will want to play it competitively.
One of the key apsects of any good game (computer, board, card, sport!!) is that it is simple to learn but difficult to master - that I think is what Epic is getting at. A causal gamer should be able to get by with just the basics and take down a more experienced player but at the end of the game the better player will have the higher overall score.

Talk about Unreal. Look at the size of the shockrifle. It's like 7 feet long... So I'd guess realism isn't their primary goal

Anyways I'm not worried about competitive play more than the real content of this game. I know they've said they try gamplay before adding nice stuff. But I still have the feeling this game will base more on "OMG new graphics engine buyplzkthx" and not a new game.

Also when you mention "learn it from scratch" I seriously doubt it. It's a predecessor to the unreal series. How can it make you start from scratch unless it's a new gametype?

Old news: that picture of the shock rifle was a close up to show the detail. If you look at any of the gameplay videos all the guns are at the right scale.

Proheme said:

I have pro in my name.

Does that make me pro?

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Yes, it does make you Pro.*






















*heme

Selerox said:

It's fair to say that we're ****ed then.

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yes we are.
On the bright side : one only needs to look at other games to see that their grass isn't any greener ...

I'd much rather we had a big community with less sequely pros than a small, hardcore community full of elitist wankers tbh.

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Ditto. Altough big communities tend to feature the other breed of bastards : the wannabe elitist wankers ...

I'd much rather the game catered more to the masses, as long as there's at least something there for the veteran players to get into.

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There will always be people that want to play a game to the exclusion of (almost) everything else. It's the new blood that we really ought to worry about.

If epic want to make it better for non veterans then some decent training missions are needed,

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just don't expect any miracles, because the kind of people that would need training rarely if ever do.
America's Army system shows there are the kinds of 'people' that would cheat at training just to get to the 'real' thing, because they are either too impatient or too full of themselves ...

There will always be a gap between the guys that play hours a day and the guys that pick it up occasionally. If there's anything they can do to help new players at least get a running start from spawn, that would be a plus, but it's not going to keep skilled players from owning.

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One of the key apsects of any good game (computer, board, card, sport!!) is that it is simple to learn but difficult to master - that I think is what Epic is getting at. A causal gamer should be able to get by with just the basics and take down a more experienced player but at the end of the game the better player will have the higher overall score.

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One of the ways to help a casual gamer take out a more expereances player is to have more 'random' weapons, and more of an element of luck. with card game sthe deck is shuffled, and its what you do with what you get that sepeates the veterans from the inexperianced. with bord games there are often dice, for the same reason. but computer games can't
just randomly award players frags, so stuff like the ripper and the relics (from UT GOTY) are used to helpeven things out. UT 2004 had nothing like this, and is seen as more n00b-unfriendly. Stuff like adredalin makes things worse, because adredalin gives extra bonuses to the winners.

Pickups like the redeemer help, but not when the veterans can time respawns and always be there when it reappers.

sinikk said:

One of the ways to help a casual gamer take out a more expereances player is to have more 'random' weapons, and more of an element of luck. with card game sthe deck is shuffled, and its what you do with what you get that sepeates the veterans from the inexperianced. with bord games there are often dice, for the same reason. but computer games can't
just randomly award players frags, so stuff like the ripper and the relics (from UT GOTY) are used to helpeven things out. UT 2004 had nothing like this, and is seen as more n00b-unfriendly. Stuff like adredalin makes things worse, because adredalin gives extra bonuses to the winners.

Pickups like the redeemer help, but not when the veterans can time respawns and always be there when it reappers.

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Thats not quite what I meant. I wasn't saying that there should be a greater element of luck involve - I was trying to say that as long as you are competent in the more basic skills (shooting straight, normal dodging and the basic map layouts) you should at least be able to put up abit of a fight and get some kills. Beat 'em ups on consoles are a good example - with just the basic punches, kicks and blocks it's possible to beat someone who has spent hours apon hours learning all the special moves. Your not going to win all the time but when you do win it at least feels satisfying, rather than winning through luck (ie button mashing). The same applies to UT. In the '99 version you could kill good players without having to learn all tricks (or expoits depending on your point of view) and without spamming. In UT2004 if you don't use ALL the advanced stuff you don't really stand a chance- online play is too weighted towards the power gamers (the arse holes who have to win no matter what).

In this noob vs pro debate; the only real answer is actively adminned servers. In all online games I've played, there's nothing that can sort out agro like a sensible admin, that knows a game, is responsible, and is active on a server.

The problem is that current good and popular servers will be swamped with novice players in UT2007; and maintaining communities initially will be difficult; but it's important that we don't become protectionist and try to keep current popular servers to the experienced only; that just leaves the new players to sufer the awful servers.

Having a system of trusted, cross-server experienced players who can perform basic admin duties could be helpful. Epic should seriously consider recruiting established UT2004 players; via the existing admin networks to help police the public servers.

Allowing servers to accept players according to ELO ranking would also be really helpful; not to barr the novices from the good servers; but to bar the good players from novice servers. To complement this; each CD key could only have 1-2 user identities; and a new user identity should only be generatable every 2 weeks or so.