Official BeyondUnreal Photography Thread

OO7MIKE said:

Everyone who charges money for their photography work should watch this video. What if your customers behaved the same way in other businesses:
[M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY[/M]

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The content of that video is exactly why we got out of photography (except for EPKs, because recording artists are actually willing to pay the cost of entry.) People seriously expect you do the job for next to nothing and then they complain when it's time to pay up. Part of the problem are these Craigslist Warriors who are charging $10/hr for a photo shoot and then they do crappy work; it makes it harder for all of us to get paying work. In any case, there's just no money in photography anymore unless you're either doing lots of weddings and events or you're a war correspondent.

At least music and film (from the production side) haven't gone down the crapper yet

aCRaSSiCauDa said:

Love this one! Mind if I ask what camera settings were you using and how much light did you have for this photo?

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Its was 10pm at night in the middle of a private drive in the city. I was likely using F8 at 1/250. 3 Alien bee lights. All at 1/4 power except for the one in the back which was 1/2 power. Next shoot I'll use 1/4 power in the back or less as it blew out some of the fog details.

DarkED said:

The content of that video is exactly why we got out of photography (except for EPKs, because recording artists are actually willing to pay the cost of entry.) People seriously expect you do the job for next to nothing and then they complain when it's time to pay up. Part of the problem are these Craigslist Warriors who are charging $10/hr for a photo shoot and then they do crappy work; it makes it harder for all of us to get paying work. In any case, there's just no money in photography anymore unless you're either doing lots of weddings and events or you're a war correspondent.

At least music and film (from the production side) haven't gone down the crapper yet

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Oh man, I feel ya and I remember those days. There will always be super picky people who don't see value in what you do. You can spot them and I have no problem telling them "I don't think I am going to be a good fit for your photography needs". Woo they can get offended but sometimes they back down and become more reasonable. I don't dabble with that anymore. I like to enjoy what I do while I work with people who value what I do. People come to professional photographers for expertise, vision, and help. If they don't value that, they can find someone else to work with.

I remember a few years back I did a photo shoot with a local children's dance company. It's not my normal thing but I thought I would give it a try. I remember sitting on the phone with a client who literally ordered the wrong thing, received what they ordered, but wanted what they intended to order. I told them they could have exactly what they wanted for $10 more. It was as if $10 was breaking the bank. I remember that moment because I had to explain to him that I normally charge $350 for a portrait session and that I was discounting my services for the local dance company. $25 for a portrait session is an excellent deal for the caliber of work I am producing. It didn't matter to him. Nothing I said turned him around. He wanted something for nothing and $10 was too much to ask. I ended up not doing this kind of shoot again. It got worse after you have a subtract the industry standard "kickbacks" from your profits. Do the math and your ~$2,500 gig turns into a $1,100 gig. 800% more work than a wedding and a lot less pay. Not worth my time. The amount of time I put into that gig was nuts. Leave those gigs for the studios who can do everything in house and in record time.

I used to worry about craigslist warriors, but people are smart. You can compete with the best of them. Price shoppers are not your ideal client. If price is all they care about, be glad they are not your client. Let the craigslist warriors spend all their time with crappy customers and be overworked. There is a market for everyone. hehe

BillyBadAss said:

I shot this last weekend of a friend from work. She's just getting into photography and wanted me to teach her how to use her camera.


Nana by Jason_Combs, on Flickr

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Tell her to get rid of that camera strap!! haha

what's wrong with camera straps?

Jacks:SmirkingRevenge said:

what's wrong with camera straps?

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Unless you truly have butter fingers and are incapable of holding on to your camera, they just get in the way. They can also lead to additional back pain, slam into your sternum (ouch), and they look tacky. Its a sign of an amateur/weak armed photographer. There are better options out there.

If your not using your camera, put it in a camera bag.

I've been strap free for the last 6 years. A few accidents involving cameras and you would change your mind too. All which would have been prevented had I not used a camera strap.

BillyBadAss said:

Actually, I took care of that shortly after this shot. I wish I would of before the shot, but woulda, coulda, shoulda. I took her shortly after to this vagtastic camera store called Popeye Camera. It is a very Japanese photography girl's kind of store. She got a better strap. Fuck though, I still like the shot. She's got a 18-55mm kit lens on anyway. She's not fooling anyone that she's a noob, but she's really cool about it and really wants to learn.

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Cool shop! I did not know such a store existed.

OO7MIKE said:

Unless you truly have butter fingers and are incapable of holding on to your camera, they just get in the way. They can also lead to additional back pain, slam into your sternum (ouch), and they look tacky. Its a sign of an amateur/weak armed photographer. There are better options out there.

If your not using your camera, put it in a camera bag.

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sounds like you're reading a little too far into the issue.

when I'm out hiking or at the gardens or one of the national parks (or any number of pro sports games), I notice plenty of professional photographers and journalists who wear cameras with straps. somehow I doubt that a strap is the "sign of an amateur." I don't have butterfingers either, I just love to have my camera at the ready instead of constantly getting it out of - and putting it back into - a camera bag.

I have a camera backpack with extra memory cards, batteries, lenses, and filters. it's nice having the camera bag on your back with your camera around your neck at the front. it's more intuitive than putting the camera away between uses. my Canon is lightweight enough that I really fail to see how wearing it around my neck is going to cause back pain and it's never "slammed" into my sternum. I don't exactly go horseback riding with it

Jacks:SmirkingRevenge said:

sounds like you're reading a little too far into the issue.

when I'm out hiking or at the gardens or one of the national parks (or any number of pro sports games), I notice plenty of professional photographers and journalists who wear cameras with straps. somehow I doubt that a strap is the "sign of an amateur." I don't have butterfingers either, I just love to have my camera at the ready instead of constantly getting it out of - and putting it back into - a camera bag.

I have a camera backpack with extra memory cards, batteries, lenses, and filters. it's nice having the camera bag on your back with your camera around your neck at the front. it's more intuitive than putting the camera away between uses. my Canon is lightweight enough that I really fail to see how wearing it around my neck is going to cause back pain and it's never "slammed" into my sternum. I don't exactly go horseback riding with it

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Apologies if I'm coming off as an extremist. Hopefully you don't go horseback riding with the camera around your neck. haha

I realized that some people like it and find it useful. I find a strap more annoying than helpful. I'm constantly moving around quickly and I don't want a strap holding me back from getting the shot I need. Try using a standard strap with a 70-200 lens connected and you will know what I mean. It is after all my most used lens.

I have had second shooter at weddings use camera straps. I give them a hard time and notice that they cant quite keep up when its around their neck. I give them a hard time about it, but ultimately I leave it up to them to explore their options. I like to see everyone grow and not feel like they have to do what I do. I can cramp peoples style and I want my second shooter at their artistic peak at a wedding.

To solidify my point, here is a link to a few alternatives. I've used the Think Tank system and it works well. I'm looking to move to the Spyder system soon.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth...bh-wedding-guide-belt-systems-camera-slingers

Spyder system:
http://www.spiderholster.com/dual-camera-system.html

You can basically run with these things connected to your camera. Absolutely amazing.

The problem with the stock strap is that you become a walking Canon advertisement. There's nothing subtle about it.

I'm looking to get a sling strap. This one looks cool but the price is like woah. http://www.blackrapid.com/products/sport-slim

I have idea who the couple in the picture are. They looked very happy.

I don't post very often, partly because I'm stunningly OCD about taking pictures.

Two pictures from a recent trip to New York. Also a test picture taken from our balcony at home. It's fairly obvious which is which

Man those moiré patterns

Selerox said:

I don't post very often, partly because I'm stunningly OCD about taking pictures.

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Haha
Nothing wrong with that

BillyBadAss said:

I think guys are harder than women to shoot because I think I've looked at women a lot more and know how they should be I guess. Anyone else notice this?

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Coming from a guy who mostly photographs women.. I agree with you to an extent. It tends to take more skill to make women look good than it does to make a guy look good. Guys don't have to do much to look good, but if you look at the process the same way as you look at the process to make women look good, you start to see just how to make a guy look awesome in the same way as you want women to look awesome.

The feminine stance vs the masculine stance is a big player into this. I tend to break the rules for women though. I have them do both and see which one makes them look fantastic, then I run with that. For guys, I stick to the masculine pose. I don't deviate unless they are trying to look goofy.

Alright folks. I recently did a photo shoot with a large dance company in my area. You already saw the test shoot but this time I made some revisions to my rain maker rig. I didn't have time to do any behind the scenes shots so I handed over my D700 to one of the dancers who showed up early and I had her take some photos behind the scenes.

I put the camera in fully automatic and I left the rest up to her. She was having a fun time. Although I think I scared her off towards the end when I said "please be careful with this camera, it cost me $2k." The photos pretty much ended there. Soon as it got dark out it was game time. I wish I had some photos of that time. Alas I am thankful for what I got.

Here are the behind the scenes photos:


Most of the gear here. Some is seen later. I basically brought half of my studio.



My assistant for the day in the front putting together the lights while I work on the Rain maker in the back.



The rainmaker is tricky thing. In version two I only punched a few holes in the tubing and put mini sprinklers inside. Total cost for this project was $90. (not including lighting gear)



After we put it up it bowed ridiculously. You can see me thinking to myself "What a piece of $#%^." With some rope and an additional tube of metal to help stabilize the structure I was able to make it work without it falling down when the water made its way to the tubing.



One of many trips I had to take to help get everyone up and ready in record time. We had it all set up within an hour.



Here is a rough set up shot from a view of where the dancers were facing. You can see the rainmaker bowing pretty badly. But it held together quite well.



This is basically the view I saw for most of the evening. Not much changed. We were on location for 4 hours. We packed up and left a few minutes before midnight. There was a police officer in one of the houses, he was super cool about the shoot and so where the other neighbors. With 22 dancers on location and a birthday party down the street it certainly wasn't quiet that evening.


The one bad thing we had to put up with on this shoot was the Fog machine. I spent a little extra to get a good fogger and the best fog juice I could find. It put out a lot of fog but the wind was happy to sweep it away. The fog came toward the dancers which meant we had to take a break. Then the fog went either up/down/left/right in a hurry. Having an extra assistant and another fog machine would have made this shoot a bit faster. Wind was one element we just couldn't control. Doing this in a large studio space or an air plane hanger would have been better. Next time right?

Here are some of the photos from the shoot.


As you can see from the two shots, the editing process was a bit intense. I think if I invested $500 into an extra fogger and build a real truss for this rig I wouldn't have to do much PS work. I was left with 30-45minutes of post work to make everything look pretty. Most of that time was getting rid of cords, light stands and correcting rain drops that look off as a result of cloning. Over all I would say this project was well budgeted.


For those who are wondering:

Nikon D3s - ISO 200 1/250s (Honestly could have done this with the D700 or a plethora of other cameras, but the curtain times are quicker on the D3s so this was my ideal choice )
Sigma 85mm 1.4 (handles flare and ghosting from back lighting very well. Only some mild purple color flaring in some shots. Hardly noticeable and usually quite pleasant to have)
Paul C Buff Radio triggers and lighting gear
1/2 Power Large softbox to the left.
1/4 Power Medium octobox to the right.
1/8 Power with a cone modifier in the back.

so when one of those guys or gals slips and falls and breaks their precious dancing legs, do they get to sue you?
or do they have to sign a waiver before jumping through your slip and slide death machine?

I mean... rainmaker

BillyBadAss said:

Yeah, I'm trying to shoot more guys recently just because I feel like I like the skills there. I also notice it's a good indicator of how many people are actually interested in your photography, or if they are just just fapping your your photos. Guys photos always get way fewer views.

I've never taken a photography class so I have no idea about how to shoot the different sexes. I just know what I like with women and go on that. This I think is my best guy shot.

I realized guys doing things like reading are much more masculine, so having a guy doing something always seems to work best. Are there any tips you can give me for shooting men?


Neat idea for a shoot. Because of having to fight nature and my hate for the wind always doing the opposite of what you want it to do, I would of shot this in a studio with a drain. That would of ramped the price up for sure though. It came out neat though.

Do you ever use Model Mayhem when looking for models?

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Kudos for being self taught. Deep respect for those who just do it and learn as they go. For some it just clicks. Part of it did for me, but not the technical aspect of things. One photo class is all I took. The rest was from local photographers, experimenting, info off the web, what I learned in videography classes. The rules are a little different, which is why I like them so much.

Only advice I can give is to use the masculine pose. Make sure that head is tilted the right way and that he is relaxed. Extreme bent positions to arms and legs look feminine.

I have used model mayhem and ISO connection before. Lots of flakey folks on there. Connecting with modeling agencies is a better idea. Most models are cheaper than you think. Many are $40-$100 an hour.

Jacks:SmirkingRevenge said:

so when one of those guys or gals slips and falls and breaks their precious dancing legs, do they get to sue you?
or do they have to sign a waiver before jumping through your slip and slide death machine?

I mean... rainmaker

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I didn't have anyone sign anything because everyone there knows what to expect. I have a strict rule of no accidents on my shoots and I warn (jokingly) everyone about that. I give reminders when someone slips or trips. Precautions are taken but its really up to each individual on how much of a risk they want to take. I never advise anyone to do anything risky.

I think if I was shooting corporate or commercial shoots, you bet I would have everyone sign forms.