UTComp features in 2k7

Discord · Aug 26, 2005

I'm guessing that UTComp must be more popular among pub admins in Europe than it is for their NA counterparts... my pubbing experience over this way doesn't run me into UTComp very often, unless I'm looking for TDM (which is all but dead as a "pub" game here, but then it was never very popular as such here).

I could see how if it was all over the place it would be a pain...

On the other hand, and I know this never goes over well when I advocate it, but 2k4 server rentals have got cheap, cheap, cheap. If any of you are desperate enough, Clanservers is offering 16 players for $32 US per month (available in Europe as well). I know nobody wants to pay, but the CTF pub situation over here is a little slack and I'm thinking of taking matters into my own hands myself... just an idea.

klasnic · Aug 26, 2005

Nosnos said:
But there have been plenty of good servers around before, and there still are, at least in Europe, but no one plays on them...

Agreed. I always find myself on US servers for the most part because of empty European servers. That said, those that are in Europe from what I've seen are always either outdated, Instagib, UTComp, TAM or have bad map lists (ala FaceClassic everywhere) so I wouldn't even jump in to take that step.

One way to solve that is throw UT2Vote on every server which is a dream mutator and gives options to disable/choose what you want. Those options should be in 2k7 imho so I can jump into an empty server and play the game I want to play.

Personally I hope with 2k7 that Epic don't provide the tools or don't allow the game to be modded so much that everyone's playing something different (at least online) but that's just the direction I'd go with it and I'm no expert where gaming's concerned.

Ok I'm rambling and going OT (back to topic)

[Edit] & :tup: @ edhe's post

Bullet10k · Aug 26, 2005

whats newnet?

Rask · Aug 26, 2005

Nosnos said:
In terms of the skins what I think is needed is this:
- Clearly visible teamskins for at least a couple of the skins (like the Epic style brightskins in UTComp, looks good and is visible)
- Ability to force the skin you think is the most visible
- Ability to pick the color for the enemy/teammates so that you dont get any advantage from being in one particular team

Wishful thinking:
- Several teamcolors to chose from

And as far as hitsounds goes, they dont need to have those "unrealistic" sounds that you have in UTComp. Doesnt matter what they sound like as long as you hear them

Good points IMO, and that I want my *ping* sound!

-AEnubis- · Aug 26, 2005

Newnet is a ping compensator that leans on the client a bit more then stock netcode, to supply a more "lan" feeling to the already overly effective hit-scan weapons in this game.

I don't think the problem is moddability, because UT was equally moddable, but was a more solid game. It didn't need to be changed 8 ways to sunday to make everyone happy. Then since everyone says "hey, let's just change what we don't like", they all do it differently, community divides, and we all play, for about a week, on our rented server by ourselves, until we get tired of paying for a mostly unpopulated server, and quit.

This is the current problem with our "rent a server idea" Dischord. Especially now that people have had other games to move onto like BF2, and what not. Why would they suddently boot up a UT server browser to see if there are other servers about? They have populated, and consistant games there.

TAM is great. MaStur actually makes a lot of effort in collecting changes for infrequent updates in hopes to keep the community all on the same version. Does a really good job of keeping changes subtle, so the game doesn't feel like it's changing a lot each update. The community is strong, and has plenty of populated servers. Only thing I gotta put up with is brighskins, and it's still the funnest UT I've ever played (barring some LAN no ups loc DM in UT). He has had the experience of learning from a lot of other mistakes though, so it makes sense.

Bullet10k · Aug 26, 2005

so what's the difference between newnet and enhanced netcode in utcomp?

1337 · Aug 26, 2005

The next argument will be 'use standard servers tickbox' to which the reply will be 'how many are left?'

Stop complaining if you aren't financing the servers or you aren't active enough to help keep standard public servers populated. Most servers that are populated often have a core player base. If you don't want to participate in a core player base to keep a server populated then you are at fault. If there aren't players that prefer standard server settings and play frequently enough to help you form a core goup of players to play on a server frequently then there that's life. There is a reason why things are the way they are.

edit:

Bullet10k said:
so what's the difference between newnet and enhanced netcode in utcomp?

I laughed

-AEnubis- · Aug 26, 2005

Bullet10k said:
so what's the difference between newnet and enhanced netcode in utcomp?

2 sylabols.

Bullet10k · Aug 26, 2005

-AEnubis- said:
2 sylabols.

o rly

so newnet is jus another name for enhanced netcode?

neways, i don't understand all the b!tchin bout newnet, i think it's fine.

Sir_Brizz · Aug 26, 2005

briachiae said:
Stop complaining if you aren't financing the servers or you aren't active enough to help keep standard public servers populated. Most servers that are populated often have a core player base. If you don't want to participate in a core player base to keep a server populated then you are at fault. If there aren't players that prefer standard server settings and play frequently enough to help you form a core goup of players to play on a server frequently then there that's life. There is a reason why things are the way they are.

So your argument against not liking newnet is that the servers that people play on have newnet on them?

The majority of the competetive scene that I know of has no opinion on newnet one way or the other (or dislikes it) but the vocal majority and server admins of course want it loaded.

As far as I'm concerned, it turns UT2004 in UT: Comp Edition, and there is no going back because there are hardly any server (populated or unpopulated) that don't have newnet on them.

Plumb_Drumb · Aug 26, 2005

If that "enhanced" netcode stuff becomes very common (more than it is), I will quit the game.
p.e.r.i.o.d.

1337 · Aug 26, 2005

Sir_Brizz said:
So your argument against not liking newnet is that the servers that people play on have newnet on them?

The majority of the competetive scene that I know of has no opinion on newnet one way or the other (or dislikes it) but the vocal majority and server admins of course want it loaded.

As far as I'm concerned, it turns UT2004 in UT: Comp Edition, and there is no going back because there are hardly any server (populated or unpopulated) that don't have newnet on them.

If you'd like to finance a server without utcomp, do it.

If you want to complain about admins putting it on their server or other players not populating servers without utcomp on it so you can drop by and play a quick 10 minute game, then you need to rethink things a bit.

There are servers out there with standard settings, btw. But no one frequents them as much, because there isn't a core playerbase keeping the server populated. Stop complaining unless you finance servers or play frequently enough to keep a server populated.

Sir_Brizz · Aug 26, 2005

briachiae said:
If you'd like to finance a server without utcomp, do it.

If you want to complain about admins putting it on their server or other players not populating servers without utcomp on it so you can drop by and play a quick 10 minute game, then you need to rethink things a bit.

There are servers out there with standard settings, btw. But no one frequents them as much, because there isn't a core playerbase keeping the server populated. Stop complaining unless you finance servers or play frequently enough to keep a server populated.

You are totally dodging the point, though. It's not just me that is pretty much not playing UT2004 anymore. If it weren't for Onslaught servers NOT adopting UTcomp, the player number situation would rival UT2003s once again. IMO TTM raped that game over in the end, as well.

This is what comp crap does to a game. The only way to get your server played on consistently is to adopt it, and the only way to keep player numbers up is to not use it.

Really, the "get your own server or play on empty servers" argument is frivolous. I can play with bots on my own computer without any lag and with practically as much required skill and not have to mess with searching for and waiting for players. Why would I join an empty one? Likewise, if I rent a server and only three people join it in 6 months, what is the point of me keeping it online? I'm not arguing logistics with this noe, it's simply that it is ruining the multiplayer aspect of one of my favorite games, which is more and more making me want to play other things, which is what I have been doing. I can join any number of Call of Duty servers without "pro" crap and enjoy myself all the while. In UT I have no choice but to play on pro crap and it gets incredibly drab. *hitscanned* *die* *respawn* *hitscanned* *die* *respawn* *hitscanned* *die* *respawn* *hitscanned* *die* *respawn* *hitscanned* *die* *respawn* *hitscanned* *die* *respawn**hitscanned* *die* *respawn* *wash* *rinse* *repeat*

How many UTcomp games do you play where any projectile weapon is used consistently with any success? And then rate that against UTocopmp servers where you are killed repeatedly by hitscan from the across the map more consistently? So why don't they just make a mutator that changes all the weapons into Ltg, Shock, Mini, and Link alt and enjoy your hitscan only game.

1337 · Aug 27, 2005

That can be attributed to the dead and small community, and people that aren't consumed with the competitive aspect of ut2k4, tend not to play frequently enough to keep a server w/o UTC populated enough for less active people, like yourself, to be able to join whenever they want.

UTcomp servers are easier to use, cool and stylish, less clunky and better suit competitive play.

Newnet, brights, hitsounds admins can disable serverside and players can disable clientside.

-AEnubis- · Aug 27, 2005

We've already went over how you really can't disable newnet client side, as well as how making the brightskins sacrifice is like playing against a bunch of radars, and not having one yourself.

The problem Brizz seems to be facing it who runs most of the servers, and how their opinions differ from those who comprises the largest player base.

As well, that whole "suiting competitive play" concept is a total conundrum the way it works with comps main features, and most of those people just wanna water the game down, and focus it so they don't have to practice so much to compete.

Nosnos · Aug 27, 2005

Dont wanna practice on what? Raising the gamma and brightness to ridicolous levels and forcing gorge through their .inis? The top teams that play with UTComp would be the best even on servers without UTComp.

-AEnubis- · Aug 27, 2005

Correct, but that doesn't account for everything inbetween.

JaFO · Aug 27, 2005

That's the real reason for UTcomp, isn't it ?
It's got nothing to do with the lack of hit-feedback or the dark skins.

The real 'need' for this mutator comes from the fact that all the lesser clans/players want to be able to pull the same stunts as the top-tier, but they don't want to spend time to practice ...

// ---
And as for UTcomp itself ... that is a bad mutator by default, because it does several things that have no real reason for being put into a single mutator.
Mutators should be small & beautiful, not large partial convertions.

In fact ... I wonder why they didn't make it a total conversion ?
Or where they afraid no one could be forced to use it (TC's are invisible, mutators can be shoved down your throat after joining the server)

So far Utcomp seems to do :
- skins & hitsounds for the blind and deaf
- extra statistics
- warm-up round
- alternate weapon-balance
- coloured text
- 'enhanced' net-code

I can see UT2k7 adapting warm-up rounds (pretty useful for pre-match, but nothing a decent admin can manage) and statistics (always fun to look at once in a while).

Wowbagger · Aug 27, 2005

fuegerstef was on the GC and he says the characters were more visible than in UT2004 which would suggest that Epic is determined to improve on this area.

I really loat the UTcomp brightskins but the the warmup and some of the other small features would be nice if Epic implemented.

Sir_Brizz · Aug 27, 2005

briachiae said:
UTcomp servers are easier to use, cool and stylish, less clunky and better suit competitive play.

I disagree ith every single one of those comments. Like has been gone over several times in this thread, the real use of UTcomp is to water down the game so that less practice = better playing. I don't claim to be one of the best players (I don't have to be). I just want to play the game the way it was DESIGNED to be played.

Having run several server for 2k3 and 2k4, I can say with 100% surety that it is NO EASIER to run a UTcomp server, NOTHING more cool or stylish about UTcomp, and standad servers are certainly not clunky. What exactly makes you say these things? In fact, I would say it is harder to maintain a UTcomp server, it's not like adding UTcomp and turning all the options off serverside would suddenly make your server easier to manage, right?

Newnet, brights, hitsounds admins can disable serverside and players can disable clientside.

I can also turn off my monitor. Does that make it fair?

There are two "features" (i say it in quotes because they don't really 'belong' to UTcomp) that I would like to see in UT2k7. That would be a warmup mode option for the server admin, and an pic Brightskins option. On top of that, I want the option to TURN BRIGHTSKINS OFF. It should be the server admins decision whether brightskins are used, and what kind (I don't think glowsticks are appropriate).

UTComp features in 2k7

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