what is epic planning to do about aimbot?

Re: ok....

the same thing, I won't mention it however). I haven't seen it all myself, thus I'm only taking his word on it. And yes, as far as I know all aimbots would be rooted in viewrotation (just not need a direct change).

Nope I can write an aimbot and never touch view rotation. Just takes a tad bit more math.

yes, but the irony is that without funbot, cshp was never used. never forgot that your ways are exploitable too. how much more or less? That is quite hard to judge.

Actually.. you've got the chicken and egg wrong. Funbot was detected by CSHP because CSHP was available. The thing was, CSHP was in low-key testing via the Admin list and friends. Funbot's detection and then release actually forced me to make it more than low-key. This has actually hurt it's development since issues like rogue actors had to be delt with on the fly instead of in proper controlled testing.

What makes it undetectable? And cshp runs foreach allactor iterator loops client-side, so nothing is stopped there. I suppose nothing can ever stop client-side hacks

It would be undetectable if I allowed client-side mods. If I allowed OldSkool, there is no way to determine if OldSkool is really OldSkool and not MrAimBot pretending to be OldSkool. This is why it's an all or nothing approach. But I did give server-admins the ability to throw caution to the wind.

ok

sorry man I thought you were referring to ezteams. Yes, your method requires all actors to be dealt with. I was really only upset until you added actor destruction. Before I would get kicked. Now its fine. And I was referring to how cshp wouldn't be as widespread without funbot existing. and your telling me that you could make a bot that never touches viewrotation (that is even directly. in other words the viewrot is never even affected by something the bot is doing??) If you can I suggest you e-mail darkbyte about it...

A bit sad to see the guys with the white hats fight eachother, while the guys with the black hats hide in the shadow and laugh about it.

yes a flame war it is...


I say "screw this" and focus on Legacy. As soon as I figure out why the gameinfo is being destroyed by saving!

Why do i have a feeling i'm doing all this for nothing ?

This discussion should never have happened, just like FunBot should never have leaked.

One was asking WHO should do something ... well, first of all, i believe Epic could give us some tools. Like CRC checksum the packages. But its much easier to do nothing since some of us try, the best they can, to do something. I'm not asking for them to find THE solution against it but they could help by giving us some tools. Right now this war (not the flaming war) is all in the advantage of hackers. I feel like i fight with a shotgun against a redeemer. I mean, with decompilers now, what protection can we give ?

Oh, and Dr.Sin, you are right ... EZTeams is fighting against a limited number of aimbots. Mostly Uscripted ones. I do believe you when you say that ViewRotation is not the only type of bots that exist. Heck, i've heard about dodge bots lately. So one could make a Shoot-Bot, one that simply shoots when u aim at the right spot !!

With a bit of sourness, i'm asking myself if it's worth it for me to continue without any help of any kind, except for encouragements.

A sad DarkByte.

Why do i have a feeling i'm doing all this for nothing ?

For the same reason I continue to do CSHP, because we want a fair game. It's always an up hill battle.

This discussion should never have happened, just like FunBot should never have leaked.

Ah this discussion is fun, that's why it's happening.

One was asking WHO should do something ... well, first of all, i believe Epic could give us some tools. Like CRC checksum the packages. But its much easier to do nothing since some of us try, the best they can, to do something. I'm not asking for them to find THE solution against it but they could help by giving us some tools. Right now this war (not the flaming war) is all in the advantage of hackers. I feel like i fight with a shotgun against a redeemer. I mean, with decompilers now, what protection can we give ?


The problem is even with the tools, unless Epic breaks compatibility it won't matter. And as I said, it's more important that anyone can play online at any time.

But there is hope against the decompilers. I'll let you know when I have it nailed down.

Oh, and Dr.Sin, you are right ... EZTeams is fighting against a limited number of aimbots. Mostly Uscripted ones. I do believe you when you say that ViewRotation is not the only type of bots that exist. Heck, i've heard about dodge bots lately. So one could make a Shoot-Bot, one that simply shoots when u aim at the right spot !!

Yes you could do an auto-shoot bot. You can also do a fully functional aimbot. Drop me a line and I'll explain it too you. DodgeBots have been around for a while. They are really easy to do. In pre 432 clients, you can just use binds.

With a bit of sourness, i'm asking myself if it's worth it for me to continue without any help of any kind, except for encouragements.

Same reason why joining the peace corp gives people happiness. Noone said this was any easy game. It's hard work with little or no pay. I've said several times I didn't want this tread to effect your decision to work on bot protection. Remember, if 10% of lamers find a way around it, you're still stopping 90%.

Right now, the "cheat" community is afraid to let their hacks leak out. They know we will find them and stop them. This is fine with me. If 10 guys know how to bypass CSHP or whatever and never tell anyone, I'm not upset. When the information is leaked or a bot is made available, we just fix it.

This whole tread isn't really about protection, it's about the how Usaar33 was building it up as more than it really is.

Truce

DarkByte:

Right now this war (not the flaming war) is all in the
advantage of hackers.

Click to expand...

In ANY security related issue, the hackers have ALWAYS had the advantage. However hackers aren't the ones that you want to target - you want to target the lamers that will actually release a crack.

However, if you're interested, I could give EzTeams a 'security evaluation', and give you some feedback on how to improve it.

DrSiN:

The problem is even with the tools, unless Epic breaks compatibility it won't matter. And as I said, it's more important that anyone can play online at any time.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Epic WONT break compatability. Makes sense, too.

But there is hope against the decompilers. I'll let you know when I have it nailed down.

Click to expand...

If the unrealscript interpreter can make sense of the code - a decompiler can too. I admit, most available decompilers SUCK, and if its the same idea that you talked to me about on IRC a while back, it'll stop them. But there are some more sophisticated decompilers - thankfully, that will _never_ be released or distributed.

Remember, if 10% of lamers find a way around it, you're still stopping 90%.

Click to expand...

But if that 10% give what they've found to the 90%, everything is lost.

This whole tread isn't really about protection, it's about the how Usaar33 was building it up as more than it really is.

Click to expand...

The reason I got involved was Usaar33's apparant... unknowledge of the issue.

--Yoda
PlanetUnreal

\me just shuts up and burns baddies....



darkbyte, you're right. there is no point to this discussion. (well it is kinda fun...)
I never really was denying flaws. I'm guilty of exagerating the security...
my unknowledge? I could say someting to that but I'd just be shooting my self in the foot in the end....
I hereby concede to my rivals (with the sole exception of p0s ).

[Edited by usaar33 on December 22nd, 2000 at 01:35 PM]