Great Britain soon to be Little Britain?

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Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
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For anyone who's living under a rock, the people of Scotland are about to vote on becoming independent from the rest of Britain in a couple hours. Something the Scottish have been yearning for for the past 300 years. If you want to know more go read a book or newspaper.

So, listening to opinions the biggest factors for the supporters of segregation is national pride and Westminster politicians being too far removed from the needs of the average Scottish person(and if I get it right, the average Britain as well).
And if I understood correctly your political system needs serious overhauling, maybe it's time to look at the USA or us Germans and our federalism,
get rid of your lords who only get to steer your country by being born with a silver spoon in their mouth and a fancy title, write down your constitution ffs.

cnn article
 

KaL976

*nubcake*
Nov 28, 2003
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Yeah, except the Queen will still be their sovereign whether they leave or not.

I don't give a shit what happens & have no interests one way or the other but it would appear that if they do leave it's not going to pan out quite how the 'yes' brigade are saying it will.
 

ambershee

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Apr 18, 2006
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Great Britain is an island. They're not voting to become independent from the rest of Britain, that would involve getting a giant hacksaw and cutting along the border...

They're voting to become independent of the United Kingdom.

The Scottish independent thing is largely out of stubbornness, but the politics of England versus the politics of Scotland are somewhat different. The trouble is, Scotland has absolutely minimal GDP. It's so small the rest of the UK wouldn't notice they're missing. I don't get how the 'Yes' voters think it's ever going to work economically.
 

ambershee

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Apr 18, 2006
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Scotland doesn't have that much in terms of tourism - they get about 1.6 million visitors out of the UK's 30 million. This constitutes less than 5% of Scotland's GDP.

They've already bled the majority of their oil reserves dry and are looking at places like the Hebrides, which were previously considered unprofitable to drill and it's unknown if those deposits will have a decent yield.

Scotland's biggest contributors to GDP at A) The UK military, B) the electronics industry and C) Call centers.
 

Al

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Jun 21, 2005
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FREEDOM!!!
 

gitrmanuk

Sound Dude
Mar 11, 2011
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Don't forget Rockstar North.

Why would those guys want to pay taxes to fund the extravagant lifestyles of pasty-faced public schoolboys from the 'soft south' when they could pretty much support a small country?

:D
 

ambershee

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Apr 18, 2006
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If you think they pay barely any tax in the UK you'd be sorely mistaken. Just like any big company, they'll be funneling it abroad via their business offices anyway. Rockstar North is just a development house, not where the money is...
 

Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
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my guess 30-40% will have voted yes while a majority barely above 50% will have voted no.
Hey Ambershee, I really appreciate your input.
 

ambershee

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Apr 18, 2006
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I suspect the Yes votes are going to marginally win over the No. There are too many people voting who don't really know much about the politics and just want to vote in favour of their national identity :/
 

Hermskii

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Apr 13, 2003
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I suspect the Yes votes are going to marginally win over the No. There are too many people voting who don't really know much about the politics and just want to vote in favour of their national identity :/



+1
 

Selerox

COR AD COR LOQVITVR
Nov 12, 1999
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Out of 32 counties total.

The the result is: No.

Of the results currently only 4 counties out of 31 voted in favour of independence. Overall No% was 55.48%, which is pretty much what I expected.

The most worrying thing for me is the level of intimidation that's been carried out by the Nationalist community. Pro-Union supporters in some areas were consistently the victims of abuse and attacks on property. It was starting to look worryingly like Northern Island was years ago. The SNP's tactics against pro-Union figures was appalling to put it mildly, the dean of St. Andrews University (who is Irish incidentally) being a prime example.

The best hope for the UK right now is to move towards a more Federalist structure. English voters are starting to get very, very angry about having less say and less powers than Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish voters. I think this could - hopefully - start the real backlash against the Westminster political parties. They've proven themselves time and time again to be inept, contemptible, corrupt scum. Westminster isn't an English parliament, and we don't want it any more than the Scots do.

It's time we had a New Union with a new parliament.
 
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Wormbo

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But that's still corresponds to a very significant share of about 45% Yes votes. Want to dare a guess, how many of the No votes were due to the ludicrous political promises Cameron and others made? That could become an important number if those promises are broken. On the other hand, Wales already pointed out that it doesn't see, why Scotland should be the only part of the UK to get such advantages.

Also, some representatives from the independence movements in Catalonia and South Tyrol were present during the voting. I wonder what they took away for their own efforts to get independent from their respective countries Spain and Italy.
 

Jacks:Revenge

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Jun 18, 2006
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I pride myself on the complete lack of care I've invested in this whole issue.
didn't realize so many in the US had such strong opinions about it.

that being said, it would have been interesting to see an independent Scotland.
with their tax structure, a sovereign Scotland would immediately have been one of the top-20 wealthiest nations on Earth.
 

Selerox

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Forward United

But that's still corresponds to a very significant share of about 45% Yes votes. Want to dare a guess, how many of the No votes were due to the ludicrous political promises Cameron and others made? That could become an important number if those promises are broken. On the other hand, Wales already pointed out that it doesn't see, why Scotland should be the only part of the UK to get such advantages.

As for the number, you have to see this as a two-issue vote. This isn't just a vote for independence, it's also a vote against Westminster. Quite a number of Yes voters are happy with the concept and principal of the Union. The issue is that they're not happy with Westminster and the main UK political parties. What a lot of people in Scotland forget is that no-one in the UK is happy with them.

If you phrase the vote as "Do you want your country to more outside the control of the UK Parliament?" the majority of the UK - England included - would vote yes. The level of political disaffection within the UK is growing daily. The major parties are trusted less than they ever have been. The problem is that there's nothing to fill the gap.

This will force the issue of English representation, which is something that has been a major cause of anger within England. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all have their own legislatures with independent powers, while England has nothing.

Personally, I'd much rather see the UK move towards a Federalist system, with each constituent nation having it's own parliament with extensive powers, with a central UK parliament to act as an legislature for overarching national issues.

For a start, I'd advocate move the legislature from London to a more central location (Manchester for argument's sake). The image of politicians from "far off London" dictating policy is a too damaging and needs to be addressed, and I don't think the UK can be seen to continue to be run from the seat of wealth and privilege. It needs to be more directly accountable to the people.

We believe in the Union, but it's need to be remade into something where each part has an equal say. Right now this simply doesn't happen, and all four of the nations have a right to demand change.

The issue is that the main political parties have a vested interest in stopping us.

I can see the 2015 general election turning into a (metaphorical) bloodbath. I just hope incoherent morons like UKIP don't have the opportunity to take advantage.

that being said, it would have been interesting to see an independent Scotland.
with their tax structure, a sovereign Scotland would immediately have been one of the top-20 wealthiest nations on Earth.

Scotland's GDP is only about a tenth that of the UK's. The SNP's economic policy was basically North Sea oil and Finance. The first of which is declining in production and does not make for a stable long term proposition. The second is a non-starter, as all the major financial institutions in Scotland would disappear south to England so fast they'd be a fucking blur in the event of a Yes vote.

That leaves manufacturing, but the problem there is that the vast majority of Scotland's manufacturing exports (along with all of it's exports) are to the rest of the UK. Those jobs would end up in England, Wales and Northern Ireland very quickly, boosting the UK economy at the expensive of the Scottish one. One other thing to note is that it's UK military contracts that are keeping the Clyde ship-building industry running. It's a long-standing and iron-cast policy that all UK naval ships will not be built on foreign soil. Overnight those contracts would go to the dockyards at Portsmouth and other areas in the UK, putting thousands of Scottish workers out of the job permanently.

Add to that the fact that 17% of Scottish adults had already stated in a poll from last week that they would leave Scotland for England if Scotland voted Yes, that's a pretty major bleed-off of the workforce. Add to that the fact that the better educated Scottish voters were, the more likely they were to vote No and it implies a pretty huge loss of talent from Scotland.

Also, currency. The SNP insisted that Scotland would continue using the Pound as it's currency after a Yes vote. Despite being told categorically by the Bank of England and the UK Government that this was not an option. Leaving an independent Scotland's only other option to create it's own currency and peg the exchange rate directly to the UK Pound. The problem with that little arrangement is that the EU have already stated that for Scotland to be considered for membership - as it will not automatically become a member, and would have to wait 5 years before it could apply - it would have to use the Euro as it's currency. Something that simply would not fly with most Scottish voters.

Hardly a stable picture of economic stability is it?