StarCraft II

Kantham · Apr 20, 2009

Shadow said:
Yeah this is why I don't think I'll be getting SC2. I mean I can barley beat the computer in SC1 as it is.

The SC1 computer is rather dumb, they have no personality, they just tend to attack every 5-6 minutes the game is started. I hope that for all this long time in development, they worked hard the on the AI. At least enough to make them understand Fog of war and scouting.

TWD · Apr 20, 2009

Kantham said:
I thought they clearly mentioned that in the video.
So for Jafo, you have to destroy every buildings to win even after the opponent has left.

I have the severe feeling that anyone who was bad at SC1, will be terrible at SC2 with all the new features and tactics. But hey, for once a game developer doesn't step back and make their game even more casual than the title before.

I've always felt that StarCraft has one of the best learning curves possible. It's easy for someone that has never played a RTS before to play. The new players also have just as much fun. If there ever was a game where n00bs and pro players could coexist peacefully StarCraft is it. Even getting pwnt is more fun in StarCraft than in other games. Even then as long as their matchmaking works well this shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't know how to beat a computer in the first StarCraft then you should go and do a bit of reading and then come back and try a game or too. The only place where I think StarCraft might be hard to pick up is that people get misconceptions about how you should play. All it takes is one person to tell you how it's done and you're good to go. This won't be a problem since once the game is released there will be a buzzing community full of people to learn from.

KillStreak · Apr 20, 2009

TWD said:
If there ever was a game where n00bs and pro players could coexist peacefully StarCraft is it.

I doubt this.

Kantham · Apr 20, 2009

Uh. I agree TWD that StarCraft isn't so much of a learning curve compared to say, Supcom. But I doubt that pros will be able to coexist with nubs, playing with someone of your level is always fun in a RTS, but having to play with a random opponent isn't much fun as you'll probably get owned over a long effort wasted game. This is why I don't like StarCraft online much, also opponents may leave at any time during the game, either they lost connection or surrender, that pulls me off completely.

But I'm sure you meant that in a way where SC is the game pro and nubs can enjoy.

Shadow · Apr 20, 2009

Kantham said:
The SC1 computer is rather dumb, they have no personality, they just tend to attack every 5-6 minutes the game is started. I hope that for all this long time in development, they worked hard the on the AI. At least enough to make them understand Fog of war and scouting.

Last time I played, the CPU was playing Zerg and I was Protos. After like 5 mins the CPU sent out about 6 or so little zerglings while I only had one Zealot.

RTS is just not my thing.

DarQraven · Apr 20, 2009

Standard ling rush. That one zealot could've killed probably 3-4 of them, depending on micromanagement, and assuming you had a second one in production, you could have wiped the zerg's attack force and taken the remaining zealots to his base (which would now be practically undefended)

Rushes aren't as scary as they look. Just make sure your probes GTFO and you're fine.

Latent Image · Apr 20, 2009

Saw the new vid match, is looking good

TWD · Apr 20, 2009

Shadow said:
Last time I played, the CPU was playing Zerg and I was Protos. After like 5 mins the CPU sent out about 6 or so little zerglings while I only had one Zealot. RTS is just not my thing.

Start out doing nothing but pumping out probes until you get about 12. Build pylons along the way as necessary. From there get a forge or a gateway as soon as possible and pump out as many zealots as you can. Continue to build gateways as resources allow until you have at least 4 of them. Once you get 12 zealots attack the computer.

May take 2 or 3 tries. Concentrate on filling the pipeline, and pumping out as much as many zealots as possible in the least amount of time.

Kantham · Apr 20, 2009

I totally own the comp with quickly bringing in forces near their base, set up encampment. Only with Zergs it's harder since they use creep (Was it called that?) and it's way too expansive/long to set up a base in the middle of their ground path.

To get a good comp experience for everyone in SC2, they'd need something like 200 difficulty level (Aka limit less), after a few "game wizard" runs, the game will decide which one of them is on your skill level. Based on your mouse clicking speed on the field, and how fast you are overall on the commanding.

That would kick ass.

Wail of Suicide · Apr 20, 2009

Shadow said:
Last time I played, the CPU was playing Zerg and I was Protos. After like 5 mins the CPU sent out about 6 or so little zerglings while I only had one Zealot. RTS is just not my thing.

On higher difficulty levels, the computer gets additional resources from each worker. For example, if your SCV carries back 10 minerals, the computer's will carry back 20 (although only 10 will be subtracted from the mineral pile, so this essentially doubles the amount of resources the computer gets from any particular spot as well as doubles their acquisition rate).

This is particularly bad since the only thing the Starcraft AI is really "good" at is the executing its early game build order and unit ability micromanagement. It's like playing a mentally challenged kid with hacks. If you can hold off his early game resource advantage rush you can usually win.

JaFO · Apr 21, 2009

This won't be a problem since once the game is released there will be a buzzing community full of people to learn from.

I admire your faith in humanity on-line ...
I think it'll be like any other 'old' game that is reintroduced : the newbies will be beaten, the 'pros'/'veterans' will complain about the game being consolized and similar nonsens, the newbies will complain about cheats/hacks, and everyone will start complaining about units being too powerful/weak depending on whether they are using them or are getting destroyed by them.

Things can be better, but as I said ... I seriously doubt it as too many people want instant-success without being prepared to practice/learn anything.

d3tox · Apr 21, 2009

JaFO said:
I admire your faith in humanity on-line ...
I think it'll be like any other 'old' game that is reintroduced : the newbies will be beaten, the 'pros'/'veterans' will complain about the game being consolized and similar nonsens, the newbies will complain about cheats/hacks, and everyone will start complaining about units being too powerful/weak depending on whether they are using them or are getting destroyed by them.

Things can be better, but as I said ... I seriously doubt it as too many people want instant-success without being prepared to practice/learn anything.

Heh, all its gonna take is a handful of people you tubing build orders, and with just a little practice people can pick it up.

I want this game now.

TWD · Apr 21, 2009

d3tox said:
Heh, all its gonna take is a handful of people you tubing build orders, and with just a little practice people can pick it up.

Exactly. I think far too many people are making assumptions based on their experience with FPS games. It's completely different with an RTS game. All you need to do to become better at these games is to think. Reflexes and aim don't factor into it until the highest levels of play, and if you've played enough to get that far along those things just come naturally.

Sure people will complain and there will be all the same problems that EVERY online game has. However, I completely disagree with those that claim that the game won't do well because it's "too hard" or anything of that sort. It's not like UT2k3 where if you can't hack it on the one server left you can't enjoy the game. You have so many options in StarCraft that everyone will be able to find a match that they can enjoy.

JaFO · Apr 21, 2009

Reflexes and aim don't factor into it until the highest levels of play,

which is why I wonder what the 'average level of play' will be like once the game is released given the size of the community as is already.
I doubt such things will come naturally even though it's not comparable to fps-games the amount of skill required to breach that barrier will appear to be huge to the rts-newbie (like me).
And more new players is what this genre needs to be interesting to new players.

The video already showed that veterans understand how to use the teams and other aspects of the game which will be intimidating to a newbie regardless of how easy to learn it appears to have been for you.

Heck I say that one of the major problems for this game will be the fact that none of the new gamers even understand the core units in this game whereas the veterans have practically mastered them all.

Stuff like the burrowing-ability used by the zerg in the battlereport will feel like cheating to players unaware of it as the race won't be available in the single-player campaign until one of the expansionpacks.

d3tox · Apr 21, 2009

JaFO said:
Heck I say that one of the major problems for this game will be the fact that none of the new gamers even understand the core units in this game whereas the veterans have practically mastered them all.

Stuff like the burrowing-ability used by the zerg in the battlereport will feel like cheating to players unaware of it as the race won't be available in the single-player campaign until one of the expansionpacks.

There is bound to be slight differences between units in sc1 and sc2. There are new units, and anytime a game introduces new tactics and units, it affects balance even on the units that existed prior to. They may be better, they could be worse...

Kantham · May 24, 2009

Anyone up for a SC1 game over battlenet?

Rules:

-2 or 4 player levels.
-Random race.

I'm rusty, FYI.

Darkdrium · May 24, 2009

My brood war disc is dead.

Torrenting, sadly. :/

RIP StarCraft BW

Curiously enough, a friend asked me to play StarCraft with him tonight as well (Which is when I found out I couldn't get the INSTALL.exe file off the disc). Small world.

Kantham · May 24, 2009

What happened to your disk?

BTW that pic is monstrously large.

Darkdrium · May 24, 2009

It's scratched a lot.

And yeah, didn't change settings on the camera. I just wanted to remove any doubts about me owning the game in advance

Kantham · May 24, 2009

You could probably get it fixed via those sponge spinner thing they use at places like Microplay, cost 5 bucks to get a disk fixed. It worked for my Splinter cell DA CD that got scratched like hell when I put the console horizontally whilst it was reading the disk. :doh:

Leason learned.

But then you got your key, so yeah, Toto sounds like it work.

StarCraft II

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bugs are features too ...

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bugs are features too ...

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I posted in the RO-me thread
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