Islam's Prophet Mohammed + Cartoon

No. Conclusion: lack of free media produces missinformed people.

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Then what explains all those who are missinformed / ignorant in the 'western' worl where there is such a thing as 'free media' (or atleast so we claim)?
No, lack of free media does not produce missinformed people. Actually I'd say it is hardly important...

Flawed logic. Someone who's missing his eyes is blind, but not all blind people are missing eyes. A->B != B->A

There would obviously be a lot more "ignorance" without a free media.

Rostam said:

No, lack of free media does not produce missinformed people. Actually I'd say it is hardly important...

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Come on, Rostam. You know better than that. Propaganda is everything when you want to control people. Hitler did it, Stalin did it. Russians and Americans did it during the cold war. People believed what the government told them and the media was the middleman. Most governements in the middle east is still doing it, obviously quite successfully.

Long live me! Destroy Islam! Destroy Arabs! Destroy Istanbul! Destroy Malaysia! Destroy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad! I'm not a terrorist, I just want to destroy everything that I don't agree with! Destroy all humans! Destroy!


Ah, good times...good times...

Russians and Americans did it during the cold war.

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Huh? Is it over now? No more lies and evil-doer trickery? Finally, I can sit here resolute and ponder what’s for lunch.

Free media helps ignorance in some cases and prevents ignorance in other cases.

Almost said:

Come on, Rostam. You know better than that. Propaganda is everything when you want to control people. Hitler did it, Stalin did it. Russians and Americans did it during the cold war. People believed what the government told them and the media was the middleman. Most governements in the middle east is still doing it, obviously quite successfully.

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And somehow the free media is the voice of reason? This is the same media that wouldn't/won't air anything contradictory to the US president's statements, and pull stories about failed assasinations when it's discovered to be flawed?

yes, it would be much better if there were only one newschannel on TV and one newspaper, both controlled by Good 'ol Bush. We wouldn't have to have doubts about The Truth.

Keg nailed it. Just because we call it free doesn't mean it is right. We're pretending it is but it is not. It's just a name.

Yeah, but your smug previous post implies we shouldn't even have an attempt.

I like how a post about lack of a free(ish) press in the troubled regions somehow gets twisted into whining about the western press. Last I checked, only the western government was burning things down, not the civilians.

Keganator said:

And somehow the free media is the voice of reason? This is the same media that wouldn't/won't air anything contradictory to the US president's statements, and pull stories about failed assasinations when it's discovered to be flawed?

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The question to be asked is wether this is actually FREE media...

yurch said:

Last I checked, only the western government was burning things down, not the civilians.

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Actually, some soldiers in the War Against Religion have been burning down churches left and right out here...


I commend them for their efforts. Only a few billion to go until liberation.

Rostam is a dick.

Keganator said:

This is the same media that wouldn't/won't air anything contradictory to the US president's statements.

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Last time I checked there were plenty of media outlets in and outside the US which openly criticise the government.

yurch said:

Yeah, but your smug previous post implies we shouldn't even have an attempt.

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I didn't say free media is a bad thing, I said I don't believe free media is the reason why people are misinformed. People want to believe in a communist plot, they want to believe in a superior race, they want to believe things that are not true. Give them all the 'facts' you want but if somebody wants to believe the world is flat, free media isn't going to change ****.

I like how a post about lack of a free(ish) press in the troubled regions somehow gets twisted into whining about the western press. Last I checked, only the western government was burning things down, not the civilians.

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Yes I like it too. Now shut up and suck.

Rostam said:

Give them all the 'facts' you want but if somebody wants to believe the world is flat, free media isn't going to change ****.

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And what about those who could be swayed by information, had it been availible whatsoever? Nobody cares about the others, and that's fairly implied.

Nukeproof said:

Conclusion: lack of free media produces missinformed people.

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A->B != B->A. The implication Nukeproof is making here is that there are those who would know about things had they ever had the chance to learn, ect, and there are ramifications for not having this freedom of information as possibly evidenced in these recent newsworthy actions. It's a fairly unquantifiable statement, yes, but your mention of those who always choose to remain ignorant is basically a non sequitur, and carries the implication that there are more of these people in this region than others. This is not an avenue you want to continue down if you don't want to be accused of racism by less friendly forumers.

Suck my size 47.5 american wang. Semantics are fun.

.Nova. said:

I think you need to shut the **** up JaFO, it's people like you who are marching on anti-islam protest and help throw fuel on the fire

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I'd suggest you take those blinders of and look at the people that protest.
Recent protests here in the Netherlands had protesters aged 16-20 (ie : bored kids, not religious freaks). They even tried to get the police to attack them ...
That pretty much proved they weren't protesting against anything in particular. They were simply trying to use the 'cartoons' as a reason to destroy property.

I’m usually comfortable with any principle that’s not middle of the road. However, I am kinda leaning towards Jafo’s take on this situation. While I do find some of his comments to be racist, I have no problem being stationed at the point position and finding my way through the forest.

Now, I may be incorrect, but I’m hearing him say that many of these so called extremists are actually disenfranchised individuals who are in search of an audience for whom they can voice their complaints. Yes, it’s true, freedom of the press means very little in our (the West’s) current political culture, but the notion still carries impact. By impact, regardless of its current administrative monopoly, I mean principle. With the principle in mind and not nostalgic policy, it’s difficult to see much on either side that doesn’t represent an intentional contradiction. My point is that while the Muslims are playing this card to meet their orchestrated needs, so is the West with many other issues.

For God’s sake, we started a fuking war over politically orchestrated issues. Why is it so out in left field for the majority of the worlds culture to accept the fact that this is a war of media blitz? How is it possible to take a stand against someone else’s self-proclaimed spiritual position, but at the same time justify our own dreamt up philosophy as being morally justified?

IMO, I don’t believe that either argument holds much weight regarding justification for action. It’s easy for one side or the other to sell their stand to an audience looking for justification of actions that each side feels they have fallen victim. Jafo’s correct, IMO, regarding the anti-cartoonists rally’s; while at the same time, the rest of you are right in your neutral argument regarding media propaganda and it’s contradictory label as free.

I’m not 100% positive of my thoughts, but I am positive that there are too many variables to examine. Maybe that is the key. Flood the constituents with more alternatives than any average persons are able to consume, while making it easy to digest a directed policy.

Who knows? The Man has advanced so much further in their methods of control to the point that it's almost impossible for even the most sophisticated to keep up.

Hehe, and people are silly enough to promote tolerance (as if tolerance works when only one side believes in it). Nuke em all i say

I think what we should all learn from this thread is that pipe just made his first serious post.