Team play

Communications

Only when a comms system is implemented that makes communication the single most important element of INF, (like Op FLash) will there be teamplay.

No sooner.

Tribes2 has made it so it is quite hard (imposible) to accomplish many objectives alone.
At it's start, there was alot of "deathmatching"
But now, the players are really starting to shape up, even in pub servers.

Lets look at something here:
In real life you would need teamplay...
In inf, you don't nessesarily need it.
Therefore, if inf was realistic enough - you would need teamplay.

My "beef" has been with the uber accuracy part of inf. Finding/identifiying/aiming at/and shooting is a little too fast.
Me, R-force, St0rmcaller, and many others have got quite a few ideas submitted... keep your fingers crossed that they get through to 2.86.

HEY! you dont need teamplay in reality! Havent u seen RAMBO???

my point exactly.

I haven't played SF so i don't know the running speed, but humans can run fast, not like thick **** but a lot faster
I think the runningspeed as it is now would be ok as a full sprint. That would mean: no strafing and totally inaccuratre shooting and stamina drawing away A LOT faster. The third movenmentspeed should than be: A 'tactical run' moving fast but as flat and carefull as possible (like in rogue spear) You can still fire VERY accurate when doing that in RL. I mean: INF is supposed to be totally realistic, it won't be if you reduce the runningspeed to unrealistic levels. The speed is ok, just disable strafing and aiming and make stamina drop faster and include the third movementspeed: problem solved.

now teamplay: I try, but it doesn't work most of time on publics so i only do it with clanmates. In the rare occasions that ppl do team up with me or me with them after saying so in teamsay and them agreeing, they often fail to do their work: they either throw a nade wich bounces back and lands exactly at my feet, or they simply fail to cover my ass, or when i am covering theirs, they suddenly run off. That's why i rambo in a tactical way on publics.

The current running speed is about equal to the worlds fastest sprinter. Most people can't even get close to that speed. I think the fastest you can run should be about 75% what it is now.

like it was before?

And by the way rogue - i can't get to your site.

How fast is INF's running? The worlds best mile runner keeps up a average pace of 17MPH ove a mile. Now with gear and a weapon that would slow you down considerably maybe to 10-12MPH. You guys ever read Rainbow 6? great book Anyways in the book they can run really fast and Tom Clancy is really dedicated to realism.

Originally posted by The_Fur
Unless teamwork is the only option. Then players like Browncow will either shape up or ship out, either is fine.

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Teamwork is never the only option. There is never a case where a rambo can't kill people because of the other team using teamwork. If the player is good, he could by all means wipe out a whole team himself. But of course you don't understand that.

I will never use teamwork because i don't need a team to do good. I just need a gun and some ammo. I won't have to shape up nothing. If you have to resort to use "teamwork" then you are the one who needs the shaping up. Because if you were good enough, you wouldn't need the team.

With that said, of course there would be goood players that want to use teamwork. That's fine, **** em.

If i had to pick between going my own way and having some moron cover my back that isn't as good as me, i'll go my own way 100% of the time. I don't need some moron getting me killed because he can't cover his area.

I played a server yesterday whre they were using teamwork, and they got whooped. In sibera, the rambos beat a whole team that was using teamwork. They were even camping at the top of all the stairs and we still managed to win.

Using teamwork is no excuse for just plain out sucking.

Inf is based on realism. In the real world would you go rambo against 8 hostiles by yourself? I doubt it. If you did ya you might bring down 2 or 3 but you would end up just another unmarked grave. In the real world teamwork is the only way to survive. Since INF is trying to promote realism they are trying to promote teamwork. And BrownCow have you ever tried teamwork? The only way to get teamwork going is to make teamwork the only option that is worth doing. In the "suggestions" forum there is a thread about having teams spawn randomly somewhere in the map. If stuff like that was implemented then you would have absolutley no idea where the enemy is and running off ramboing would probably get you killed. In the end if we want teamwork we have to make it so that without it you would get creamed.

I always try to stick together with some teammates and if they go down ill scream like a bitch and run

i do what works, if someone asks for help i go. but i dont always consider "teamwork" to be as rigid as some other do. to me, if you go one way and are covering over there, and i do this way that is teamwork. assuming you dont die i dont have to worry about the area you are in. that isnt to say i never provide cover, and that i dont help out where i can.

if i have an AK with drum i get on someones ass and lay down covering fire.

Teamwork don't need to be very rigid with lots of communication, just trying to stick around other players and providing them covering fire and such is already a good start, and even guy like Browncow can do it without hurting his playstyle... much. Of course if they can use voice com or other kind of communication, it's way better, but it's not a mandatory.

Well, the last time i played a good teamgame all we did is stick with a few guys we agreed to be with, with one as leader. We provided help for our leader, but also all other teammates we ran into : if our squad was down, we just joined with other teammates around... One guy followed by one or two others can do quite well : it's a basic teamwork, but it does the job, nothing fancy (ideal for public games).

Originally posted by /=-
Inf is based on realism. In the real world would you go rambo against 8 hostiles by yourself? I doubt it. If you did ya you might bring down 2 or 3 but you would end up just another unmarked grave. In the real world teamwork is the only way to survive. Since INF is trying to promote realism they are trying to promote teamwork. And BrownCow have you ever tried teamwork? The only way to get teamwork going is to make teamwork the only option that is worth doing. In the "suggestions" forum there is a thread about having teams spawn randomly somewhere in the map. If stuff like that was implemented then you would have absolutley no idea where the enemy is and running off ramboing would probably get you killed. In the end if we want teamwork we have to make it so that without it you would get creamed.

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Inf maybe based on realism but that is all it is, just based. It is impossible to make inf in a way that you HAVE to use teamwork to win. It just doesn't work that way. I can safely say that will never happen. Of course i've tried teamwork. It was a waste of time. I can't stand it even when players walk near me on public servers.

And now the random spawning thing. I guess you guys have some wacky ass idea of what a "rambo" does. Where i spawn has absolutly no effect on weather or not i'll survive. You can spawn me in the middle of the map, i don't care. I know the map and i know where i can take cover. You assume every "rambo" is an idiot, or at least it seems that way. I don't freak'n run everywhere and blast off rounds. I don't need teamwork because i don't suck, plain and simple. Not saying that everyone that wants/uses teamwork sucks, just a majority of them.

Being good includes:

ability to aim quick and well
being alert
quick to react to sudden situations
knowledge of map playing on
knowing the spots most likly for a player to be camping in
being able to find the enemy before he finds you
once again, good aim.. seems like 5% of the inf players can actually aim.

Now, you can toss anything at a player that meets the above requirements, they will still do well. It is possible for 1 player to take out an entire team, even if they use teamwork. Then match that up with 2 or 3 more poeple of the same ability and teamwork or not, you will not beat them. And they will be all "ramboing".

Playing against people that are using "teamwork" kinda makes it easier for me in a way. They all walk together, or at least in a few groups together. So i don't have to actually find 6 individual players. And when 2 guys are walking together, usually 1 guy covers one way and another guy the other. So that makes my job way more easy to kill both of them then if they were both watching out for themselves.

take that dad!

Team play should be the best tactic... but I ended up first using nothing but the knife. All you need to do is run so fast between em that they either dont shoot no more or kill each other.
Maybe an even better tactic is playing with a knife and 5 nades, run between a squad, drop the nade, and get out! I tried this a few times, it works pretty well.... just dont expect to finish up first!

Speed needs to be decreased...

The team said themselves that they will never sacrifice gameplay for realism. WHich means this ridiculous running speed has to go. I don't care if you CAN actually run this fast with 40+ lbs of gear on your back, it sucks, especially with a high ping. INF players can run outragous speeds, and fire just as quickly.

http://forums.planetunreal.com/showthread.php?threadid=70171&referrerid=21116

I don't like to pimp my thread, but the aiming in Night's Edge is really good. Needs to be implemented. No more idiot Rambos.

And Browncow is right; not everyone is an idiot who Ramboes. I Rambo all the time (little choice actually... all these seemingly cool teamplay servers I can never get with good ping). I love teamwork, though. If I can help it, I always want someone to cover men, or always want to cover someone.

As of now Strike Force has a hell of alot more teamwork than INF. I play Strike Force alot now (my name is "Malice" btw), and the fact that players move as slow as ****, gives them an incentive to cover each other. No one wants to run extremely slowly out into an open field wihtout someone covering them. And even in CQB, teammates prefer to cover each other. Though admittedly, one reason they might be covering each other is the lack of friendly fire on most servers (friendly fire really kills teamwork... no one wants a bad shot teammate behind them)

Realism needs to take a backseat here (if running at 40+ MPH is realistic). The speed really kills teamplay. Yes, the players attitudes are important, but the speed is almost doubly so. In Rogue Spear, you see teamwork. And it is realistic (aside from a "tactical run".). This is because players can't side strafe as fast as they run forward, and they can't fire incredibly accurately at a full sprint. These things need desperately to be changed, and I am suprised they weren't in 2.85.5 (The new bulk system doesn't seem to help much... though it did help the chronic amount of 40mm)

I disagree with the point being raised that a good player can wipe out an entire enemy team. If three people got together, and one EXCELLENT Rambo player attacked them (under realistic circumstances, maybe a later beta), this is what I see would happen.

Rambo rushes in door. He bangs his gun against the wall (can't wait until this gets implemented), but continues unscathed. He runs into several people (enemies). He stops, and opens fire. He can no longer run around wildy with pin point accuracy, because the new system doesn't allow fast shooting with a scope (PLEASE PLEASE get rid of scope running). So he takes out, AT MOST, two of the three guys. The third guy is in an excellent position, and has been waiting for this guy to enter. He opens fire, killing the Rambo instantly.

This is the ideal playing habitat... and this can be done fairly quickly.

IDEAS FOR TEAMWORK:

-Players attitudes (can't really change this)
-Better scoring system (no individual scores... only you can see your own)
-MUCH LOWER RUNNING SPEED
-No scoped weapons while running
-Terrible accuracy with iron sights shooting while sprinting
-Lower (at least half) strafe speed
-Slower backwards running (no more circle strafing)

These can't be very hard to implement. Only a few values have to be changed, and PRESTO, instant teamwork.

Whoa...

I just wrote another eassy-type post. Sorry to whoever doesn't like to read books

Just read the end points for a summary.

Im in 4 realism 100%!!

Re: Speed needs to be decreased...

Originally posted by Elite_Soldier
Rambo rushes in door. He bangs his gun against the wall (can't wait until this gets implemented), but continues unscathed. He runs into several people (enemies). He stops, and opens fire. He can no longer run around wildy with pin point accuracy, because the new system doesn't allow fast shooting with a scope (PLEASE PLEASE get rid of scope running). So he takes out, AT MOST, two of the three guys. The third guy is in an excellent position, and has been waiting for this guy to enter. He opens fire, killing the Rambo instantly.

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First thing.. rushes? I always go my own way. I never rush into a room not knowing what is in there. I'm not stupid. I would crouch in the door enough to see what was in there. If i saw 3 guys, i'd get at least 2, if not 3. And even if i only got 2. That is all i need to do. If i just kill 1 guy I did my job. If i kill 2 or 3 i've done others jobs on my team as well. If i'm playing 6 on 6 and i take out 3, our team beater freak'n win. I have been in this situation actually, and my whole team WAS using teamwork. I would kill 3 guys a round and die, they couldn't even pick up the remaing 3. It was sad.

Teamwork or not, if you suck, you suck. Teamwork isn't gunna magically make you good, sorry.