Shield Time Pwnt?!?! W!T?F! Is there no end?

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Power-up timing. Stay or GO.

  • Keep it the same, I hate change!!!11!!

    Votes: 24 40.0%
  • WTF there is no other option.... N00B!!!11!

    Votes: 8 13.3%
  • We need a new system, watching the clock is teh sukc.

    Votes: 28 46.7%

  • Total voters
    60

MonsOlympus

Active Member
May 27, 2004
2,225
0
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Where did you get the impression this thread is about 1on1 online only??
Just because people dont play online or 1on1 doesnt matter, it also doesnt mean they dont know what they are talking about. Really the thread title seems to relate the shield as a whole not 1 gametype. I prefer to play my 1on1 on lan its way better across 100mb!!
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
0
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Linten said:
?

If you've got weapons and 100a to collect, you have to move. If the 100a goes, any reason not to just sit on top of the LtG for the whole match goes with it.
Simply don't allow people to throw their weapon in order to grab a freshl one with ammo ... and you'll get them 'moving' to another ammo-source.

Or just remove the ammo from the LtG completely and place the ammo as a separate pickup somewhere else on the map.

Presto ... instant-reason to 'move' somewhere else.
It doesn't matter what item people 'need' as long as that item is a pickup somewhere on the map. It's the availability (or rather lack of an item) vs the reward for grabbing it that is the carrot in DM as it is defined now. There is however nothing that says what those pickups should look like and what kind of reward they should offer. Well ... nothing except the desire for players to want the same ol' thing over and over again instead of trying something else.

winx said:
dont want to be mean here but its pretty obvious that most people speaking in this thread dont know much about 1v1(ONLINE).
So ?
1vs1 DM is only a very minor part. Heck ... on-line DM is 'free for all' and that's what the focus of the balancing will be. 1 v 1 DM is as different from FFA as TDM is.
 

--Under

Underestimated user
Mar 21, 2004
94
0
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ok then. I guess/hope that if you guys are talking that much about DM is that you know what your talking about .... right? I still think that shield ADDS alot to gameplay if everyone tries to time it. On the otherside, if one person times it and others whine about it, it is definitly good to remove it cuz it would remove crying and whining. :lol: :lol:

But just imagin how gameplay would be if every players in a DM match would time 100a and Amp, it would be AWSOME :). Everytime powerup would spawn, it would be an insane battle where you would have to be skilled at :

-Aim
-Movements!!
-Risk calculation
etc.

The most skilled ones would get power ups and peoples would stop crying that those with better math skills are not supposed to win :'( bouhouhou im better i shoud win boohooooooooo. In that situations SKILLED PLAYERS WOULD WIN.

summary: Remove it cuz 90% of peoples will always choose crying instead of doing +5 in their heads. :lol: :lol:

Sad part here, im serrious about the crying choice.
 

MonsOlympus

Active Member
May 27, 2004
2,225
0
36
42
I still say remove the clock and keep the shield but you really have to try it without just to see what its like.
 

hal

Dictator
Staff member
Nov 24, 1998
21,409
19
38
54
------->
www.beyondunreal.com
What about a visual or audio cue that the armor is about to respawn? That would take the "clock watching" out of it and still force players to specific spots in the map to gain an advantage.
 

Fuzzle

spam noob
Jan 29, 2006
1,784
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Norway
winx said:
ok then. I guess/hope that if you guys are talking that much about DM is that you know what your talking about .... right? I still think that shield ADDS alot to gameplay if everyone tries to time it. On the otherside, if one person times it and others whine about it, it is definitly good to remove it cuz it would remove crying and whining. :lol: :lol:

But just imagin how gameplay would be if every players in a DM match would time 100a and Amp, it would be AWSOME :). Everytime powerup would spawn, it would be an insane battle where you would have to be skilled at :

-Aim
-Movements!!
-Risk calculation
etc.

The most skilled ones would get power ups and peoples would stop crying that those with better math skills are not supposed to win :'( bouhouhou im better i shoud win boohooooooooo. In that situations SKILLED PLAYERS WOULD WIN.

summary: Remove it cuz 90% of peoples will always choose crying instead of doing +5 in their heads. :lol: :lol:

Sad part here, im serrious about the crying choice.

But in my situation, for instance, I do know how to time the shield and powerups, it really isn't hard. But wait, I still dislike how powerful shields are, how can this be!
What I dislike about it is how it is such a central part of gameplay, and I feel it seriously detracts from what I otherwise find a fun gametype.
DM to me is just "I got 17 seconds until the 100a spawns, I guess I'll spend that time running up to the mini and back down", followed by "what can I do to spend 55 seconds without camping or getting killed..". See what I mean here? See how the entire gametype *revolves* around 100a?
I feel it's too powerful, too important. Not that it's too hard to master.

Stop this "lololz u just don knoe how 2 time it and dats y u wine" crap.


Edit:
What about a visual or audio cue that the armor is about to respawn? That would take the "clock watching" out of it and still force players to specific spots in the map to gain an advantage.

UC2 has this as an out-of-the-box mutator. Since I don't have xblive I've never gotten to see how this works in multiplayer though.
It's pretty neat. Since it only announces the powerups when they spawn, you still have an advantage if you predict it, but I imagine it would be a mutator that would teach a lot of people the frequency of the spawns, so they could get a "feel" of it.
 
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--Under

Underestimated user
Mar 21, 2004
94
0
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fuzz, looks like you are an ingnorant moron that understand things i havent written.

once again: ignorant moron. ahhhhh feels good.
 

SharKTanK

:zzz:
Oct 5, 2003
645
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Manchester
Kantham said:
But then you play them in a POS gametype that feature alot of shield and weapon locker right from the start with a hitscan fest on all the first encounters, bravo.
Keep the gametype bashing out of here, it's really not needed. :)

As for timing, it's part of the game, just like being able to get a headshot or shooting a shock combo. Learn it, or be killed or outskilled.

Edit: Beaten like a redheaded stepchild it seems, by so many others...
 

ShakeZula

New Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,008
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Cheshire, England
Fuzzle said:
What I dislike about it is how it is such a central part of gameplay, and I feel it seriously detracts from what I otherwise find a fun gametype.
DM to me is just "I got 17 seconds until the 100a spawns, I guess I'll spend that time running up to the mini and back down", followed by "what can I do to spend 55 seconds without camping or getting killed..". See what I mean here? See how the entire gametype *revolves* around 100a?
I agree with this entirely.
 

HardcorexxX

(.)(.)
Jan 31, 2006
61
0
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Hey there's some actual good ideas.

Firstly let me say this to all the people posting on this thread. Where in the name of HELL do you think the importance of timing for the general player base of this game was mostly realized.....

Since I can feel how hard your brains are struggling let me educate.

1 v 1 ONLINE PLAY if you don't have a deep understanding of this "game type" then you really don't understand how DM works and is supposed to be played.

offfline play? who cares' why are you going to make something easier or more offline friendly when the whole reason the game was made in the first place was for competitive online play, the single player game however good it may be was jsut an after thought.

playing on a lan or on your own....you can do what ever the F^%# u feel like with the settings on the server its not like unreal engine 2.0 limits you in any real way for this just learn how to use a server.ini and you're good to go. The only place balance is judged by epic as well, is in online combat, the best way to do it (a way any nub MMOer would reconize) is by balancing the DoT of each weapon, based on its effective range. Anyway don't take that to seriously cause I've only spoken breifly with an epic rep about how they "generaly" design and test weapons.

Fuzzle makes the accurate observation that DM revolves around the 100a. In truth DM revoles around not only the 100a but AMP as well, making 2 objectives on the map. Just like CTF, ONS, ASSAULT, DOM, and nearly every game type in unreal there are 2 objectives on each map. In 1v1 only the 100a is used b/c there should only be a single objective when 1v1ing.



The real issue here is that people need to reconize that Epic and the majority of the player base of unreal is interested in competitve online play, this is were epics consumer base and faithful customers are, and they will cater to them over all others.

The LG was an atempt to reduce the overall DoT of the sniper weapon in unreal in that context it was scessful. However when you exaime the basic proerties of the LG you find that in order to keep up in DoT with the other weapons every shot would have to be a headshot...to compensate epic added in some groovy effects to the LG, splash damage, ignoring partial vehicular armor etc....so the thing essentialy with the way 2004.07 are/is being designed with alot of vehicles and armor etc the LG becomes an overpowered weapon, which is why they are reworking it.....

I think a real key to weapon balance is in the ammo, picture how precious every LG shot would be if you only got 4-5 shots with it and 3 shots in each ammo pack. I don't know why there seem to almost always be ammo pickups near a weapon spawn since when playing with weapons stay off (the generaly accepted competitive setting) you get ammo from the main weapon everytime u pick it up.

I think jafo makes an excellent point about how easy it is to acumulate ammo and stacks in unreal 04'.

Reducing the available ammo on the maps and not providing every weapon spawn with 1 or 2 ammo packs would not only encourge players to make every shot count, but it would do wonders for map control.

Think about it, if you left everything as it was now, timing, weapons, power up values, etc the same and removed all the weapon spawn ammo packs on the map, you would then have 2 effective ways to control the map, by reducing the ammount of ammo and gun carries and spreading out the ammo pickups, you make regualr worthless ammo pick ups vital for really doing some damage. So if one team is spending all thier energy controling the AMP/100a the other team can suck up all the ammo on the map and render the other guys pretty inefficient no matter how stacked they are b/c they have no ammo. Obviously there are some fine details to work out but that seems like a step in the right direction.

If anyone would like to run some tests or help with setting up and testing out a limited ammo weapons stay off server xfire me: vind21
 
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T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
8,752
0
36
Richmond, VA
Fuzzle said:
See how the entire gametype *revolves* around 100a?
No.

What I honestly think is happening is bad players are looking for an excuse for their badness, and blaming other people, rather than themselves. OMFG HE GOTS THE ARMORS WUT A CHEETAR I LOOSE!@! Hence, TAM. :rolleyes:
 

Neophoenix

Bast's Pet
Aug 4, 2005
493
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I think a lot of the problem with power items is the placement. Most are not in hidden areas, and are way too easy to reach.

Mappers need to make some of these items rewards for figuring out a secret, or taking time from fragging to reach a difficult area. DM-Cursed is a prime example. The amp is both hidden, and takes a second or two to obtain after shooting the wall, leaving you at a slight disadvantage for a short time.

Trapping is another good technique for power items. 2k4 has a few DM maps where there is only one way in or out of the storage room for the item, making you quite vulnerable to other players.

DM-pressure was another good example as well.

I still contend, however, that the timer should be removed to make timing more skill oriented.
 

TraCK

Amateur Sketch
Apr 14, 2005
132
0
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114
Kansas City
I would just really rather be out-aimed, out-dodged, outsmarted than out shield timed.:eek:

I never said anything about how shield timing was stupid, or people that do it are being cheap or anything like that, I just think it might be interesting if the DM gametype wasn't so focused around the power-up timing. And it looks like several of you have thought of some good ideas to replace the annoying shield timing, which is the reason I made this thread, not to bitch about how people that do it are being cheap or anything, I'm just trying to get you guys to help me think of some stuff.

I can't remember the last 1v1 I played where I didn't time the damn 100a, It wasn't because I thought it was fun (I don't know who honestly would think watching a clock would be) it was because I had to to win the match. And watching a clock IMO should not be a major asset of a shooting/fastpace game.
 

Fuzzle

spam noob
Jan 29, 2006
1,784
0
0
Norway
Turns2Ashes said:
No.

What I honestly think is happening is bad players are looking for an excuse for their badness, and blaming other people, rather than themselves. OMFG HE GOTS THE ARMORS WUT A CHEETAR I LOOSE!@! Hence, TAM. :rolleyes:

Again with the "lolz u just h8 it cuz u cant time it ursefl" crap.

Why do some people get *so* defensive when I say I dislike how important the shield is?
It's like.. they could have the deemer spawn instead of health vials, I would come here and moan about it being stupid, and people would defend it as being "part of the game".

Look at my avatar, do I really seem that elitist? My aim sucks (hence why he's blindfolded), I dodgejmp too much making me easy to hit (hence why my original name was fuzzlebunny), shield timing is about the only thing I *do* know how to do, yet I hate it.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
8,752
0
36
Richmond, VA
Well, I suck at timing, and I think it's stupid for everyone to get so defensive against timing. The only gametype in which I actually try to time is 1v1, and even then I forget quite a bit. Does that make me suck? No. The general feeling I get from this thread is that people think that others timing the shield is making them suck, and that's definitely not the case. Simply timing the shield will not make you win, just as not timing isn't going to make you lose. That one example that linten agreed with is just ridiculous. I hope to Christ no one really thinks that like. :rolleyes:

I would love to see no clock return. When I do time the 100a I do so mostly off of instinct; it just feels like it's time to go back to the area, and lots of times I'm right, as I've timed it enough to know about what 50 seconds feels like even when I'm paying no attention to the clock. My short term memory for numbers is horrible, which is why I suck at timing in the first place. No clock 4tw. But no powerups? Please. :eek:
 

ShakeZula

New Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,008
0
0
37
Cheshire, England
Turns2Ashes said:
That one example that linten agreed with is just ridiculous. I hope to Christ no one really thinks that like. :rolleyes:
I've honestly thought pretty much the exact same thing. If I'm ahead in a 1on1 and I take the 100a without challenge, I have no desire to hunt down my opponent unless he's a much weaker player and I know that I will frag without losing much health. FFA is different as other players will be getting frags while you hide, so it isn't advantageous to do so.

SOLAR said:
I would just really rather be out-aimed, out-dodged, outsmarted than out shield timed.
It really isn't that hard to time the shield :p. Subtract one minute and get there five seconds early. In almost every match I play I come up against opposition timing the 100a - the problem comes with winning the battle for it.
 
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