Steve Polge about UT3 Expansion Pack

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Grobut

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Oct 27, 2004
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The fun fact is iirc UT3 was supposed to be with tournament ladder, but suddenly someone found "oh lets make epic storyline with dramatic ending" and look where are we now. Hopefully the expansion will do a little better in that area. But if they won't touch the SP part this time they better polish the hell out of mp part.

Eh, i think its was a matter of "ohh look, GoW did really well on the Xbox, lets see if we can't make the lightning strike twice by doing something similar with UT3!", though ofcourse, thats just speculation on my part ;)

Honestly though, the ladders, and the campaign.. it really doesen't matter, its not what people have spend years playing, sure people played the Tournament ladders, atleast once just to see it, maybe also a few times, but i seriously doubt that anyone has spend the last 10 years playing thouse! its all about the Online MP and the Instant Action, THAT is what we have been using the last 10 years playing, and THAT is what they need to polish before they even think about glueing on extras like a ladder or campaign.
 

MonsOlympus

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No idea about the hitbox, but everything else is different. Don't you use the Species Stats Plus mutator or what? :p And as for the weapons, well, Liandri gives them those.

Yeah I did use it in 2k4 and in UC2 its species like stats with classes by default! The skinny models were lights, slightly larger was medium and larger still heavy, I think it worked rather well for balance that way over the per species stuff although a mix of both could also work.

Say for instance why do necris use liandri weapons in an invasion? Maybe they arnt all liandri weapons, again in UC2 each race had its own alternative to the enforcers.

to put in in other words: if the tournament competitors cannot differ in armour, weapons and health then let them at least differ widely in their appearance.

Two words: force model! Makes the option for choosing appearance redundant.

But frankly, it comes down to, do you want UT3 to have another chance at success or just let people play mods and forget about that? I'd really like it to have another chance.

I dont see why we cant have both tbh, if this is that big of an upgrade that it breaks alot of compatibility it should just be another full title. We dont want UT3 to be successful, I know for one I still and will keep playing it for atleast another year despite any problems I might have with it.

I dont see why modders should have to suffer because Epic screwed up!

And the story is a common complaint. I actually don't mind the story at all whatsoever, but I question the purpose of leaving out the classic tournament ladder mode. They had both in UC2, why not in UT3?

Agreed! Why not, I cant even believe UT3 cost more to make then GoW. They rekon console development is cheaper, well judging by the figures if it costs 10mil to make the game on one platform it cost another 10mil getting it on the other two and for what? Doubling the sales figures. Call me crazy but profit margins look around the same, why not make UT a platform dedicated frachise like GoW!

All the excuses they used for not releasing GoW 2 on PC could also be used here on the flipside for UT on PC only!
 

T2A`

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Jan 10, 2004
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Meh. My dislike of the armor system mainly stems from 1v1 play. As with anything (map design, weapon balance, etc.), the more people you stuff into a map the less things matter, and this holds true for the armor.

After seeing how UT2004 1v1 was dominated by hitscan, I was hoping UT3 would provide something much more entertaining and multidimensional. Unfortunately, the belt causes problems in a 1v1 because it takes all three of the other armor pieces together to simply be equal to it. And even then I don't think they're ever truly equal due to the math involved with the variable damage absorption.

So, all the 1v1s I played ended up being belt-camping matches, which made them less fun than UT2004 pew-pew matches. D:
 

Poker

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Apr 17, 2006
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the belt causes problems in a 1v1 because it takes all three of the other armor pieces together to simply be equal to it.
A fair point so far as it goes, but, I mean by that reasoning, the keg is a game-killer since it's 20x heavier than +5 vials, and albeit on a smaller scale one might even argue that the vest is bunk too since it equals pads plus helmet. Kind of hard to draw the line with any precision or authority.

IMO there's nothing wrong with the armour system or pickups in general (and in fact it's a step up from UT2x); rather I think it comes down to a proper map design, which includes properly gauging the risk-reward balance. If the LD wishes to put a belt in a 1v1 map, fine, he/she should just make sure to stick it in an exceedingly risky location, one that's both difficult for a player to camp and relatively easy for an opponent to attack before/while/after the player takes a run at it. You might say that few maps are built this way, however, and I'd probably agree with that.
 
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Grobut

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Yeah I did use it in 2k4 and in UC2 its species like stats with classes by default! The skinny models were lights, slightly larger was medium and larger still heavy, I think it worked rather well for balance that way over the per species stuff although a mix of both could also work.

Say for instance why do necris use liandri weapons in an invasion? Maybe they arnt all liandri weapons, again in UC2 each race had its own alternative to the enforcers.

TONS of things don't make sense in the UT3 story, none of the guns make sense in a real war, keeping "Field Lattice Generators" where anyone could walk by and steal them, without even tethering them to the ground or anything, needing to link "powercores" to an enemy base to blow up their reactor? in a "real war"?
I could go on, suffice to say, the war theme does not match the gameplay, because the gameplay was never ment to be about a war in the first place.

As for UC2, it sounds like it had alot of cool things, especially the species stuff, that UT could have used aswell to spice things up a bit, who knows if they will ever grace UT..

Two words: force model! Makes the option for choosing appearance redundant.

Why would we want that? it might have its uses for competitive 1on1 play, and thats fine, but most people out there would definately enjoy choosing a look for themselves, again, some of the UC2 stuff sounds really cool for balancing this stuff, maybe some day Epic will let us PC players have it too if we're lucky..


I dont see why we cant have both tbh, if this is that big of an upgrade that it breaks alot of compatibility it should just be another full title. We dont want UT3 to be successful, I know for one I still and will keep playing it for atleast another year despite any problems I might have with it.

I dont see why modders should have to suffer because Epic screwed up!

Does it suck? yes! can it be changed now? sadly no.. done is done, and Epic's screwup affects us all, leaving things as they are will hurt modders, and changing them will hurt modders too, but atleast the second option has the potential to work out for the better in the end, option one will just leave things mired in sucksville.

But don't get me wrong, i too would rather see a good UT4 come out instead of an expansionpack that will do who knows what to UT3, and i think an "UT4" would do better in all ways, but that's not the cards Epic are dealing us here, so we'll just have to adapt.

Agreed! Why not, I cant even believe UT3 cost more to make then GoW. They rekon console development is cheaper, well judging by the figures if it costs 10mil to make the game on one platform it cost another 10mil getting it on the other two and for what? Doubling the sales figures. Call me crazy but profit margins look around the same, why not make UT a platform dedicated frachise like GoW!

All the excuses they used for not releasing GoW 2 on PC could also be used here on the flipside for UT on PC only!

I could not agree more, i seriously doubt that making this UT cross-platform did any good for Epic, i think it just plain cost them alot of money, dev-time, and in the end, it just cheesed off their PC fanbase (or should i say UT fanbase), whilst the game has failed to make any big splash in the great wide ocean of Console games, since its not really what most Console players seem to look for in a game, it just aint no Halo or GoW..

Hell, just look at the sales of any console UT or UC, the origional UT was HUGE on the PC! then it got ported to the.. Dreamcast was it it? and failed to make any splash, UC came and went without me even knowing it, i never heard of it till years later, and it did not move any impressive amounts of copies, UC2 also failed to be any big success, even though that one actually sounds like it was a quallity and fun game.. by now, even i can sit here on the sideline and figure out "Hmm, guess this gameplay is not what most Console players want".

Stick to the PC allready, this is where U's and UT's have sold when they where well crafted, make us a good U or UT for the PC and we will buy it, and play it!
 

MonsOlympus

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Yeah I think Poker might be right here, a mapper could add 2 vests for a 1on1 map instead of a belt. Then it would take controlling vials and the other armour options to get ontop, ofcoarse hoarding rules you could get both vests for no other reason than to deny your opponent a vest.

Perhaps a return of the 1on1 naming convention for maps built specifically with that purpose in mind. I can appreciate the fact not every DM map works well for both DM and 1on1 just as some DM maps are best suited for TDM scenarios :cool:


As for UC2, it sounds like it had alot of cool things, especially the species stuff, that UT could have used aswell to spice things up a bit, who knows if they will ever grace UT..

Well UC2 did have alot to offer, Im of the opinion things people might call "pubtastic" could be in there as options, then you have the standard UT game with competitve options on that. It would really cover alot of bases with UT and please more of the different sub-crowds in the UT arena.

I do think player classes (species what have you) can be competitive also but alot of that is perspective, some people might not agree on either side of the fence. Since UT is inherently without classes I do think it best if it was to return to come back as an option, I have actually got some ruff code for this in UT3 and even implemented some new things ontop of that not seen in 2k4 or UC2 but I have committed myself to other projects since modding UT3 hasnt been paying off so well. (I'll also mention that news of the expansion has made it even more difficult for me to commit since I have no clue on the types of things Epic will add to UT3)

UC2 was really just hit with bad timing, it came just after Halo2 or just before I think and with xbox gamers being up for that action they didnt pay much attention to UC2. Its definatly an Unreal game and going back recently and watching Dr Capps remarks I can see why people thought it was too hard, basically the skill levels for AI matched what they were on PC and theres no way in hell (even with auto-aim etc) that a normal console peep could match that.
 
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Grobut

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Oct 27, 2004
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Yeah I think Poker might be right here, a mapper could add 2 vests for a 1on1 map instead of a belt. Then it would take controlling vials and the other armour options to get ontop, ofcoarse hoarding rules you could get both vests for no other reason than to deny your opponent a vest.

Perhaps a return of the 1on1 naming convention for maps built specifically with that purpose in mind. I can appreciate the fact not every DM map works well for both DM and 1on1 just as some DM maps are best suited for TDM scenarios :cool:

Definately, alot of it is good versus bad item placement in maps, a shieldbelt in a 1on1 map? sounds like trouble to me.. predictable, spammy camping trouble..

But that's really a problem with the stock UT3 maps, all the DM maps seem to be geared twords the same thing, the same player count and gameplay, there's not much 1on1 in there, not much TDM, and not much for a full 32 player count either, imagine if this game didn't come with a level editor.. ouch!

Well UC2 did have alot to offer, Im of the opinion things people might call "pubtastic" could be in there as options, then you have the standard UT game with competitve options on that. It would really cover alot of bases with UT and please more of the different sub-crowds in the UT arena.

I do think player classes (species what have you) can be competitive also but alot of that is perspective, some people might not agree on either side of the fence. Since UT is inherently without classes I do think it best if it was to return to come back as an option, I have actually got some ruff code for this in UT3 and even implemented some new things ontop of that not seen in 2k4 or UC2 but I have committed myself to other projects since modding UT3 hasnt been paying off so well. (I'll also mention that news of the expansion has made it even more difficult for me to commit since I have no clue on the types of things Epic will add to UT3)

UC2 was really just hit with bad timing, it came just after Halo2 or just before I think and with xbox gamers being up for that action they didnt pay much attention to UC2. Its definatly an Unreal game and going back recently and watching Dr Capps remarks I can see why people thought it was too hard, basically the skill levels for AI matched what they were on PC and theres no way in hell (even with auto-aim etc) that a normal console peep could match that.

They should definately be there as options, mutators really, and not as forced gameplay changes, but it certainly would be nice if they where there for us to play around with.

Though things like letting Necris and Krall have different looking Enforcers would be a nice touch either way, aslong as they work the exact same way, it would just be a nice detail, thats the sort of thing they could do with no ill effect to gameplay, it would just be a nice detail.


And yes, i can definately understand why you have a hard time feeling motivated to finish a mod for UT3, not knowing if it'll even work or not after the expansion, i would too, hell knows i have run into that one time and time again with my STALKER mods and all its patches, this is definately a doubled edged sword for modders, there's no denying that.
But even if you did finish your mod right now, how many people do you figure would play it? i doubt it would draw in new people who have otherwise given up on UT3, so that just leaves the few who still play it, and how many of thouse will pick it up?

I don't know about you, but thouse prospects would not put me in a modding mood, at all.
But on the flipside, if they actually do mange to make UT3 good with this expansion ("good" as in: people will actually play it, more people than 200, alot more people!), and it comes with some new tech, and improoves modding so i could, for instance, make player skins or voice packs without needing to create a whole new standalone model and faction, or opening doors in maps, now THAT might just put me back in a modding mood! ;)
 

iron12

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TONS of things don't make sense in the UT3 story, none of the guns make sense in a real war, keeping "Field Lattice Generators" where anyone could walk by and steal them, without even tethering them to the ground or anything, needing to link "powercores" to an enemy base to blow up their reactor? in a "real war"?
I could go on, suffice to say, the war theme does not match the gameplay, because the gameplay was never ment to be about a war in the first place.

And that's exactly why they should have stuck with the UT tournament story. People fighting in an arena for fame and fortune. Simple and sweet, end of story. I give Epic an "A" for effort, but an "F" or execution. And I think I'm being generous with the "A"
 

FuLLBLeeD

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And that's exactly why they should have stuck with the UT tournament story. People fighting in an arena for fame and fortune. Simple and sweet, end of story. I give Epic an "A" for effort, but an "F" or execution. And I think I'm being generous with the "A"

An A for effort? As an overall package, UT3 is a D- at best.
 

Sijik

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And that's exactly why they should have stuck with the UT tournament story. People fighting in an arena for fame and fortune. Simple and sweet, end of story. I give Epic an "A" for effort, but an "F" or execution. And I think I'm being generous with the "A"

Wow, zero sense of humor among you people, huh...

If I have the choice between evil space clowns and FLaGs, I'll take the FLaGs any day.
 

Sir_Brizz

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I don't really think the campaign was in response to GoW's success, but rather Epic recognizing the current trend in gaming. It should come as no surprise to anyone here that online only multiplayer shooters are not popular and don't sell very well these days.

And it's also clear that the campaign was never meant to be serious.
 

Sir_Brizz

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Well, I said "online only" for a reason :) UT isn't exactly the same kind of game as CoD4 or Left 4 Dead in that way.
 

iron12

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I would have really like to see a Tekken style campaign or Tournament or whatever, where you select a character run through the tournament, differnt game types and maps and when you get to the end and get that BIG trophy like in UT99 and you're treated with a cinematic of the character that tells a little about him and why he entered the Tournament in the first place. Anybody that has played Tekken knows what I'm talking about.... Some longer then others depending on the importance of the character. And also some unlockable gear and maps and stuff like that as you complete the tournament. That's what I wanted to see, anyways.
 

JEnepas

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Feb 5, 2008
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It wouldn't be so bad if it, at last, looked as good as the pre release(non washed out) screenshots. Give more options to pc users and a texture pack. I mean we've seen the crazy res screens people have generated and it still doesn't look anywhere near as good. Neither bump map or texture wise, characters or backgrounds. I know a lot who were shocked when they first fired up that demo at the huge difference between it and their expectations based on those early screens. Strangely enough there wasn't even a hint of the OTT post processing in those early pre release screens ,could it have been added to hide the screenshot-reality gap?


Makes you wonder if someone thought; we cannot have all the people with the console versions looking at the pc version green with envy- asking ,why does it look cr*p for us ? Therefore THEY MUST look the same. Did the pc version have to be watered down to the very limited graphic memory spec of consoles? I know some will say ,"hey, you can run at higher res and framerate on pc", but that is missing the point . It looked better in 2006 imho. Epic mentioned dev approach to game creation would be completely different if looking at it from, say a 8800gtx memory perspective v looking at a current gen console. Surely taken to mean ports are terrible news for pc gamers and it is obviously pretty important which platform gets priority right from the basic ideas stage for any expansion.
 
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Sir_Brizz

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They weren't post processed but they appeared taken from within the editor.

I'm guessing they have insanely high polygon models and textures there, and that they were reduced before release for a variety of reasons.
 

Grobut

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And it's also clear that the campaign was never meant to be serious.

Yes, well, on one hand you have good "not serious" games like say.. No One Lives Forever, or Psychonauts, and on the other, you have UT3, which one moment presents us with "You killed my people and im ANGRY! feel my roid rage!" and the next its telling us lame "knock knock, who's there?" jokes about flags..

I must say that i didn't walk away from UT3 with the sence of comedy, rather.. you know thouse socially awkward situations where some poor bloke walks into the room, and says something that is wildly inapropriate to the situation at hand, and sensing he has screwed the pooch, nervously follows it up with saying "heh.. uhmm, i was just kidding guys"? it struck me as beeing like that.
 
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