"Bossfight" gametype, needs programmer input

Hello everyone

First off, forgive me if this is not the place for this post. I looked through the forum sections and this seemed like the most logical place for such a topic. Also, this is a very, very, very large post. It has pretty much all of my ideas in it, but the first paragraph below pretty much sums it up in a nutshell if you don't wanna read it all.

Here's the skinny:
I was playing around with this idea in my head for a while now for a gametype that I would call Bossfight. The basic idea would be a "1 vs. World" type of game, one player with a massive amount of health versus another player or players with a limited amount of lives. Think "deathmatch meets last man standing". For an even better visual, think back to the old school 2D games you used to play on those 8 and 16-bit machines and '80s arcade machines, where you were one or two players fighting against an impossibly powerful boss. Stop me here if this has already been done, as I'm not aware of such a gametype. The closest thing I've seen so far would be 1 on 1 Ultra-Duel, but this isn't quite what I'm going for. Boss of the Arena for UT2003 is also not what I'm going for. Fraghouse Invasion seems to have a pretty close boss thing in it, but it's not a player-controled character like this gametype would have.

Why?: I've already asked some of my programmer friends from a local game company to help me out on this idea, but all of them are busy working on PSP and DS games at the moment (doh!). None of them know the UE code anyway, so they'd be at a signifigant disadvantage were they to start from scratch. Here, on the other hand, many talented programmers already schooled in the UE codes reside. I realize this would be a large time investment were anyone to take on this task, but I'm putting it forward more as an idea than a request. I'm also posting it here to see how you programmers would react to it. How hard would it be for a seasoned programmer with no knowledge of the UEngine code to program this Gametype? What kind of testing would be involved? And so on. Reaction and opinions are mainly what I'm looking for. If anyone wants to do this, all the better.

Now some of the details:
Forgive me if I become rather long-winded in this section and for being long-winded already.

The setup would be a 2 team deal. One side would be the boss(s), the other team would be the ones against the boss(s) (the "players"). If the boss kills the player and the player runs out of lives, the boss wins. If the player kills the boss, the player wins. The number of bosses and players should be configurable, and the game should have bot support for offline practice.

========The Boss=========
On the boss side, each player would have a high number of health points, preferably something over 999. Something in the thousands or tens of thousands would be better. This number should also be configurable, perahps with a 999,999 health point cap, if that's possible in the Unreal Engine. Bosses have only 1 life, hence their high health number. Once the boss or bosses are dead, the game is finished.

They would also be hindered old school boss style, with terrible aim for rapid fire weaponry and those with splash damage (minigun, flak cannon, etc.), but somewhat deadly aim for slower-firing but more powerful weapons with little to no splash damage (lightning gun, shock rifle, etc.). Bosses would also have unlimited ammunition, allowing them to stay in one position for long periods of time, but ammo does deplete. Ammo is recovered slowly as the gun is innactive, requiring the boss to switch weapons and allow it to reload. As a boss, camping IS an option. A neat but unnecessary addition might be the inclusion of some new weapons, such as some sort of "whistle" that calls in very weak bots that attack players. This whisle would need to recharge before being used again. The recharge would be indicated by the weapon's ammo meter on the GUI.

The boss's rate of fire would be the same as a normal UT2004 game. All weapons fire at a decent rate, but accuracy would vary depending on what I've described in the paragraph above. As either a main feature or an added option, the boss could have 4 modes of fire for each weapon. Here are some examples:
Link Gun==============
Tap LMB: fires one link projectile, tapped rapidly to fire in rapid succession.
Hold LMB: charges the weapon, release to fire a more powerful variant of primary fire which would release a shotgun-like barrage of plasma projectiles.
Tap RMB: fires a large plasma charge, 6x larger than the regular plasma projectile, but rate of fire is 4x slower, regardles of how fast the RMB is tapped.
Hold RMB: fires the standard link beam, used to roast players or recharge other bosses.
Shock Rifle==============
Tap LMB: fires a single shock beam, tapped rapidly for repeated shots.
Hold LMB: charges the shock beam, when released produces a wider, more powerful shock beam, up to 10x wider, depending on the length of the charge. Also enhances shock beam combos, multiplied by the width of the beam (up to 10x more powerful shock combo)
Tap RMB: fires a single plasma projectile, tapped repeatedly for multiple releases.
Hold LMB: powers-up the plasma projectile, creating a denser plasma sphere, ehancing shock combo power, up to 10x. This can be added to the shock beam, creating shock combos up to 20x more powerful than normal.
Shock combos can vary in diameter by up to 10x. The diameter is determined by adding the charge power of the shock beam and the shock projectile and dividing it by 2.
Minigun==============
Hold LMB: fires the gun, firing rate varies depending on the mode.
Tap RMB: switches minigun firing modes: x1 slow (accurate, UT2004 secondary fire mode), x2 mid (UT2004 primary fire mode), x3 fast (inaccurate), and x4 spray (extremely fast, but very inaccurate).
BioRifle==============
Tap LMB: fires one globule of bio sludge.
Hold LMB: charges the gun for larger globs.
Tap RMB: switches bio sludge type (green, blue, and red (RGB).
Bio sludge types can be mixed to produce different effects, ala RGB values.
R=red sludge; fire: ignites after a short time.
G=green sludge; standard UT2004.
B=blue sludge; poison: slowly depletes player health.
RG=yellow sludge; napalm: ignites and stays burning for a little while, stays on players till it burns out.
GB=cyan sludge; confuse: does not cause damage, but temporarily rearranges player movement keys.
RB=violet sludge; blind:does not cause damage, but temporarily blacks-out or darkens player screens.
RGB=white sludge; explosive: violently explodes, causing damage to any player in the splash damage radius. If the resulting globule is large enough, the explosion can have redeemer-like effects.

The boss would have slow movement when walking or running around and chasing the player, and high speed when dashing (dash movements would have longer, faster movements). Dashing would be limited, possibly with a meter that would need to recharge before dashing again, like how bosses in old 2d games would only charge you once every so often. If possible on the program side, the boss would also have a chargeable super-jump which shares the same charge meter as the dash movement. Instead of tapping the jump key to jump, the boss would hold the jump key down to charge, then release to super jump. The super jump would be 2x-10x higher than the regular jump depending on how long the jump key is held, but to be used again the boss needs to wait till the dash meter recharges, regardless of how high the jump is.

The dash meter itself would consist of two parts: the charge bar and the power overlay. The charge bar (a yellow bar) would slowly recharge over a period of time (possibly 10 seconds or so) after either a dash or a super jump is used. Once it reaches maximum capacity, it should alert the boss somehow, be it with a sound or an on-screen notification. When charging for the super jump, the power overlay (a red bar) would slowly rise like the recharge would, covering the yellow charge bar. Next to the meter, a number would indicate how high the player would be jumping by a multiplier (x2, x3, x5, x10, etc.).

As a separate option, the boss or bosses could be a vehicle instead of a character walking around. In this case the vehicle would be hindered in no way except that the boss would not be able to get out and must remain in the vehicle till it is destroyed or all other players' lives are depleted. I've considered the removal of the AVRiL for this, as it may give players an unfair advantage. The vehicle would be heavy (weight modifier, like the vehicle weight mutator). The boss would not be damaged by player hits as they are in normal games, and the boss is allowed to switch between different weapons on the vehicle if available. Multiple bosses can control the vehicle, and in cases where all seats are full, perhaps the addition of a "passenger" seat should be considered, so that a boss can become a "passenger" and allow another boss to switch into that available space. For example, if all 5 seats are taken in the Leviathan, if a different boss wanted to drive, the driver would switch to the passenger seat first, then that other boss would swap into the driver's seat.

Another idea I've thought about would be to mutate the boss to be bigger than the player characters for a number of reasons. One reason would be to restrict movement in a level to certain areas of a map, so that players have the ability to escape and hide if necessary. Another reason would be for visibility. Bosses in the games of old were always very visible and flashy, easy targets for the almighty player. One caveat of this would be that bosses may become stuck in levels where the ceiling is low in all areas. If a boss were to spawn in such an area the boss would not be able to move, with "suicide" being the only way out, but simultaneously causing an instant win for the players. I'm not sure if there are work arounds for this.

Mutators could be applied to this, but preferably the boss weapons would be forced as standard only, unless "boss weapon compatible" weapon mutators are coded. This is just to be safe.

Lastly, to indicate boss life points the boss skin would flash red. The frequency of the flash would be determined by the number of health points the boss has remaining. When the boss is hit, the boss would flash white, once for each hit that makes contact. Again, this is ala old school games.

========The Player=========
The player would be, for the most part, a normal Last Man Standing player. Each player would have a set number of lives (configurable) and would preferably have to pick up their weapons on the field. Remember that power-ups never came to you fully-loaded in the old school games (in most, anyway).

The player weapons would have higher rates of fire than the normal UT2004 weapons. Perahps something similar to the Super Berzerk mutator is what could be used. The weapons would need to be slightly weaker in this case, but the whole "millions of bullets from a tiny little character" idea is part of the old school, and I would want to keep that. Other than a weaker per-hit adjustment and a faster rate of fire, all weapons would be relatively standard.

Up at the top, replacing the player rank should be a lives remaining counter. The standard UT2004 one is a little too vague for this type of game, IMO, and should be replaced with a counter that displays nothing but the number of lives he or she has remaining.

Players should not be allowed to pilot vehicles, as this may cheapen the game, although if the vehicles can be stopped dead when it hits a boss then it may be a welcome addition. I just wouldn't want the boss's life to be depleated by something like being run over. That's just weak, and not something a boss should be.

Lastly, the player should have some sort of boss indicator, be it a directional marker or a targetting reticle that shows through any and all walls. This could also be worked in as a weapon, so as not to give the player an unfair advantage if the boss is trying to be stealthy. Something like an Aliens-style motion tracker might be neat, something that the player needs to hold in order to locate the boss. The screen on the model itself could display the boss location.

I guess the player section is relatively short compared to the boss section, but the boss section is easily the most important in this gametype.

Anyway, I think I'm about done with the descritption. I've been playing this out in my head all night while I was typing this out and it seems like it would be incredibly fun. Again, if this is posted in the wrong section of the forums, I apologize. If you have any comments, suggestions, questions, or anything, I'd like to hear them. I have no doubt in my mind that this has very little chance of becoming a gametype without being a programmer myself (I can't program at all... I'm on the art side of things), but it would be cool if this eventually did become one.

Postal: I really like the idea of having a boss with different stages. I was thinking about it while I was writing, but I guess the idea didn't click... I was thinking more like how bosses were in old Konami beat-em-ups (Arcade versions of TMNT, Simpsons, Bucky 'O Hare, etc...), how they didn't really have new weapons and just kept dying more and more, but when I think about it more the way you described it, it would be really cool if the boss player would have different weapon sets as it's wounded more and more. At a very basic level, boss weapons could just be upgraded Excessive-style as he's wounded, but that wouldn't be very unique enough for my taste. I was also thinking about destroyable vehicles, but I didn't know how hard it would be for a programmer to do such things. Like if you were driving a Hellbender by yourself, if you were to man the turret at back, instead of being exposed and taking hits like you normally would the turret would take the damage and eventually explode, removing itself from the vehicle. Originally my idea for this whole bossfight thing was a giant 4-legged spider robot that would roam around a Severance-style map with open sky and lots of mountainous area where it could climb and the player could hide.

Removal of the Redeemer and Ion Painter is definetely something to consider. It could be a configurable option, tho, since the player would have to pick up weapons as you would normally, so the Redeemer wouldn't always be around. Also, if the boss has good enough reflexes the missile could easily be shot down. I've played many a game where my Redeemer was shot down by a hailstorm of bullets intended for me. I'd want to keep the rapid fire aspect, though, since in so many old games the player had massive firepower that seemed weak against bosses, and the bosses had super-powerful weapons that moved slowly.

Unforutnately, I never played U1... I know... I'm deprived... I'm thinkng the melee attack could be used, though. Is it possible to work in damage collision for a dodge? Like if the boss were to dodge into a player?

RegularX: The Mutant gametype might be a good source for inspiration, but what if there were 2 or 3 or more bosses? I think you're thinking this would be an 'all vs. 1' type of gametype, but I guess I may not have been clear enough on that. Really this would be more of a Team Deathmatch, I think, where both sides could have any number of players, even unbalanced teams (2 bosses vs. 10 players, 3 bosses vs. 1 player, etc.). Old school games sometimes had 3 bosses against you, or 1 huge boss against several players in some of those 4 player games.

I actually had to read your post a few times before I started to understand what you were talking about . Being a non-programmer a lot of what you said seemed to go right over my head, but I kind of see what you're meaning. Basically there'd need to be a custom pawn for a boss that spawns the boss player with a specific weapon loadout, species, and GUI if necessary, along with a custom player pawn for the player side, right? It doesn't sound too difficult for something with the ability, actually. I remember programmers telling me that stuff I thought would be difficult was actually "no problem, really easy *click click* there, done."

From a programmer's stand point, how long would a gametype like this realistically take to be created?

Yes, it could be similar to the concept you've stated, RegularX. I've been talking to my programmer friend (the only one that seems interested thus far) and he seems to want to attempt this later on. I think after telling him what you said about it possibly being playable in one night his mind changed. He's burnt out from work, but his interest is perked, at least . He'd need to read up on Unreal code, tho. The snippet you've posted actually made more sense to me than it did to him. I'm starting to understand it a bit more, tho, especially after reading some of the Regular Engine documents. It's mostly still over my head, but it's coming slowly.

As for the berzerk combo mutator thing that's about what I was thinking when I wrote the ideas out, tho the addition of homing missiles and spreadfire link guns for the player sounds really cool. Maybe since the boss has modded weapons, the player should, too? Might be fun.

Good to hear the destructable weapons on vehicles seems to work. Were this a full-on project I think custom meshes would be ideal anyway.

If I can, I'm gonna try to get more of my programmer friends in on this. Perhaps others will be interested.

What's usually done is an inital balance is created, one that seems 'right' arbitrarily, after which some play testing would be carried out to see where the balance lies. From there you'd tweak the gameplay till it fits, within the rules initially laid out for the game. In this case, the rules would be:

Player: X # of lives, X amount of health
Boss: 1 life only, X amount of health

The balance would have to be as such so that, depending on either the player or boss skill, one would triumph over the other... but it's very vague. Ever notice that some games' "Normal" settings are infinetely more difficult than some other games' "Hard" settings? Same sort of thing. To some people it would be too easy, and others it would be too hard, but ultimately there's a point where it suits most people.

You guys seem to have the idea already, tho. But yeah, if anything it would need to be playtested before the settings are correctly tweaked. I don't think it would be too difficult for this sort of thing, though, since it's not a retail game (heck, it's not even a game yet) and the skill level of most Unreal players varies greatly. Perhaps there could be presets and a selector for custom settings you could appeal to all player skill levels. Some people might actually like the idea of player vs. boss with impossible odds (two lives @ 200 hp ea. vs. one life w/10,000 hp).

I'm going to start a discussion over at the Atari forums to see how people there react, too.

Actually, my friend (the one who's interested) is actually really good at C++, just has no time. He looked through some of the documents and said some of it looked familiar, but he didn't know what the names and stuff were for. When I used to work with him I used to read some of the code he was doing (all of it looked foreign to me) and it looks a lot like the structure the Unreal code uses. I just wish he didn't work so much

WyldFyre said:

This looks like a really good project. I think it would be best done with the ai controlling the boss, and then you could give the boss drones, and it could have lots of different weapons firing in different directions. (ie possible maps the dock defence scene in the matrix, or an alien invasion type scene) or, if you want to involve the players on both sides, the let the main boss be controlled by several players at the same time, and the drones be automatic.

Also an alternative (can be done in the maps), is a base assault type of boss. Parts of the base are destructable, and the core of the base could have lots of weapons to protect it.

I think with the players, having weapons that fire very high rate (all of which must have projectiles) which do very little damage per shot would be ideal. It could be done as a player selection, where one player has wide spread weapons, another has straight firing weapons, just like scrolling shooters. Also the powerups could be given when the players destroy key points, or do a large amount of damage. (these should increase the number of projectiles fired, and size/damage of projectile).

I think the main point to consider with this mod is to keep it as simple as possible, like the arcade shooters. The less to worry about when all hell is breaking loose, the more fun you can have.

Click to expand...

Well said!

That's pretty much what I've been thinking, but the idea you've suggested about the assault-type base boss is a great idea, as is the power-up thing. I was thinking mainly a boss (like a vehicle) would be controlled by one or several players... it hadn't occured to me that AI could control the unused seats (or slots).

More simple is better... maybe the weapons thing could be a cool weapons mod, a separate, perhaps useable set with this gametype.