Should INF scopes be easier to use?

Cavalier889 said:

c. This brings me to my final point, and let the flames begin. Some say that scoped shooting is less accurate, and should be made more like iron sight firing. I say iron sights are way to accurate, and the ‘bob’ needs to be dramatically increased. I can regularly go prone and get accuracy rates in the high 80 percents using a pistol at 100+ meters. Frankly, that is just ridiculous. Someone said that people shouldn’t be afraid of snipers using scoped weapons, and I agree. People should be afraid of snipers using open sights, because they simply don’t move very much, and their accuracy is astonishing.

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Bingo.

It seems the other suggestions in this thread, while they may be intended for the best, are going to turn this into a snapshooting convention. You give the players any leeway, and they will abuse it to no end.

Logan6 said:

Well, whatever. The scope video I shot says it all. Thats how a scope looks when your arm is moderately tired. A little jerky cause your muscles and nerves are tired. Its much better when your fresh and at full stamina. Almost stock still. When you aim the scope coming up at your target it takes about 1 to 2 seconds to aquire the target, sometimes you come up dead on it. Mostly depends on the range. Of course, small, far away targets are going to take more time and concentration to get the sights steady on. Of course thats for snap shots. If you want a good shot, you take your time and get the scope as steady as possible, then slowly squeeze the trigger while keeping the crosshairs dead on the target. But then again I think I said it about as good as I can in my last post. As for joining the CIA, nah Im more an FBI sharpshooter type

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Riiiight. You're the guy who said the PSG-1 was an Olympic shooting weapon primarily, right? Yeah, you're credible. hahahaha. The FBI would love to have you, I'm sure. Oh, and weren't you supposed to post shots of your video setup somehow? A mirror is all it would take. Until then, everything you say should be taken with a grain of salt the size of Asia.

The minimi you whine about all the time was checked out by a former Marine (Stormcaller, wasn't it?) and he said it was spot on, as did guys in his squad. All of which have more experience than you.

So you resort to backseat game development and weapon "expertise", only to critisize others and never improvise or implement anything. Why don't you learn how to model, code, animate, or something else constructive? You, Hurin, and keihaswarrior could all learn together and team up to make the best game ever since you all seem to know more than anyone else put together. I'm sure it would be an instant hit.

salad said:

Riiiight. You're the guy who said the PSG-1 was an Olympic shooting weapon primarily, right? Yeah, you're credible. hahahaha. The FBI would love to have you, I'm sure. Oh, and weren't you supposed to post shots of your video setup somehow? A mirror is all it would take. Until then, everything you say should be taken with a grain of salt the size of Asia.

The minimi you whine about all the time was checked out by a former Marine (Stormcaller, wasn't it?) and he said it was spot on, as did guys in his squad. All of which have more experience than you.

So you resort to backseat game development and weapon "expertise", only to critisize others and never improvise or implement anything. Why don't you learn how to model, code, animate, or something else constructive? You, Hurin, and keihaswarrior could all learn together and team up to make the best game ever since you all seem to know more than anyone else put together. I'm sure it would be an instant hit.

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Lol, all this coming from a newb named SALAD who hasn't contributed JACK **** so far. And if the marines think that that weapon is spot on, then the Marines should definitely consider getting better weapons cause you can't hit jack with it. Though somehow I doubt when any marine looks through the sights on a minimi he sees them rotating all over place. As for the PSG-1 and all I've seen about it, I would classify it as an "Olympic shooting rifle" or more like "Overpriced" and "Overrated". The weapon after all costs $10,000 and for that should be able to shoot a hole through quarter at 200 yards. Think YOU should get your facts straight before you attack someone you mindless little MORON.

Because we all know that judging a people by it's name is all that matters...

Oh, well Derelan, it was a good discussion while it lasted, but obviously someone let the TROLLS out. And since none of the dev team have said much I doubt if anythings going to change.

THese are forums, this is a game. CHill people!!
@salad
yes chill, and how can you talk anyways i have never seen you in the game do you go by a name i dont know? I dont think i know more then anyone, i simply would like to improve the game. Dont say i know more then anyone because its not in your place to make those claims, now if you dont have anything constructive to add plz just chill out.

@logan6 I dont agree with your point the whole way:
the reason it is harder to aim accuratly with a scope is mainly because its a heavier weapon, although the bob you will see will be higher the magnification would be greater:
So supposing you had 2 identical weapons in all other aspects and 1 of them had a scope the other had irons, and you see wat ever it is infront of you raise your gun aim and shoot. THe chance of hitting a certain object is the same for both scope and irons, since scopes bob is compensated for by the increased magnification and hence increased hit probability.
Also the PSG1 has a reputation as the most accurate sniper rifle in the world, no one said anything about most powerful.

He calls me a newb even though my registration date is 2 months earlier than his and insults me based on my name. Yup, he's on the ball folks! Olymipic class PSG. Yup. They shoot lots of 7.62mm next to those air guns and .22s. What a maroon.

And you never did post shots of your video setup or even address the point at all. Why not? Why do you ignore these things? A quick search shows that the last time you were asked about the PSG being "Olympic" it looks like you disappeared for a month. Maybe you were hoping people would forget? That would make sense, I guess. Hopefully by then you'll have some shots or videos of your video setup. A mirror is all it takes. Make sure you personalize it was a "Hi Salad!" sign too. Hell, you can even shoot it if you want to. Dot the "i" with one round and finish off the exclamation point with another if it helps you out.

And it's funny you think you know more than the Marines about weapons they use. Anyone know where Stormcaller is these days? He could set this self-righteous fellow straight, I'm sure. Even though I get the feeling that if the designer of the M249 himself showed up with a feature length video showing the weapon firing under a myriad of conditions by various shooters, followed by a live demonstration at a range with just him and Logan6 where each put a few thousand rounds through the weapon, field stripped it, reassambled it, and then put a few more thousand rounds through it, he'd still find something to whine about, saying all that was well and good, but he knows that's not how it should have been, that it should have been, "BLAH BLAH BLAH...BLAH BLAH BLAH...". Yup, sounds about right to me.

Ah yes, Hurin. Mr. "OK i havent been on this post to complain for a while". So very constructive, that incessant complaining. Or asking people to spoon feed you how-tos on stuff or to google muzzle velocities for you. I guess that's a start though since you at least seem to want to make the efforts.

And yeah, you might know me as Andrews.

InfernalRAge, yeah i figured it would be you. You know why dont you spend less time bitchin about others and say somethin constructive.
i mean seriously man, are you that bored and have so little to do that you have to talk **** on the forums so that you wont feel lonely?
-Skillz

Who? Andrews is a default bot name. Now that's funny stuff there.

sigh i wont bother........

eeesh. It would be nice if you actually tried to make a point in your posts instead of treating it like instant messanger.

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I'd like to point out that I never said scopes should be easier (in fact I voted no in this thread). That doesn't mean they aren't frustratingly unrealistic however.

I think that irons are too easy (their bob is actually kinda "fake"). The scopes are too easy too look through while walking and running. Scopes are too easy to shoot with when standing and holding alt-fire. I can stand up unsupported and snipe running people in the head @ 500m on RtK..... that shouldn't really be possible.

Anyway, even with all these things to complain about, sniper rifles are being used more like they should in INF 2.9 than they ever were. I think this has more to do with the lack of hip-shooting than anything else tho.

ahh well, logan btw by saying stormcaller doesn't know what he's talking about you pretty much lost any credibility you might have or will ever have

Ignoring Salad,

@Hurin, well yeah its not so much bob as it is sensitivity. The scope is a little more sensitive as you increase zoom of course, but it doesnt seem to increase in sensitivity that much. Now I haven't ever seen through a rifle scope over 9x, but even at 9x I get very controllable sensitivity with hardly any bob. First second or two there is a little bob as you line up on the target and stablize, but then it gets very controlable. I have a telescope that can go to 250x and yeah you get some extreme sensitivity when you try to line up on a planet. You touch it a little more than slightly and the planet flies out of the FOV. Mainly my point is that Im saying there's just too much bob in the scopes in game as they are now. And then when you hit your hold breath key, the scope is slightly too still. Well actually its dead still. You would only get that if you were well bipoded or bracing against a fence. Toad had it pretty close, but even though his scope did much smaller moves, it moved to often and you could never keep your sight on your target long enough to pull the trigger. i.e. Road to Kandahar sniping with it was impossible, even with the .50.

And while the minimi model is nice and correct in all respects, it has too much weapons bob attached to it. The sights rotate around like a slow mix master.

It would be nice if other people with scoped rifles and digital cameras could send in some videos too so we could get some other views.

Well, I think i've said all I can think of, anymore will just be repeating on my other posts.

@snake. Well I really don't know what the man said or what he was really reffering to. And my opinion stands, if the minimi really does rotate around like that in real life and have the accuracy of a shotgun, then it is a peice of ****. But for the record, I don't think it does, and therefore he was probably refering to the model itself, and not the horrific bob. I don't even know how you could misalign a sight so badly while firing and I've fired many a weapon.
So so what, I know some marines too, and I think they would laugh at the bob on some of these weapons and at the vicous scope bob in general.

Ignoring me or my questions? Ignore me all you wish, but why ignore the legitimate questions? Where are the pictures or videos of your video set up? How would it hurt you to post these things since they're your claims and methods and would only help validate everything you say? I just don't get it I guess. It seems a simple thing to do using a simple mirror.

Oh, while you're at it, also let us know when, in what events, and by whom was the PSG-1 used in the Olympics? Did they medal? Thanks!

It might not have been used in the olympics but if it ever is i hope it is used in the shoot the running salad(aka infernalrage) event.

@logan6
i might not quite agree with you on the minimi point but when you arent resting it on something it is pretty damn heavy.
WEll that aside, about ur telescope if u were running straight at a tree with it supposing you had a ttrigger and pressed it you would hit the tree right?
CAuse the zoom compensates for the bob!!!!
if the tree is far away well damn iron sights wont help.
MY point is that scoped weapons should be treated like irons with zoom unless there is another isue other then weight that i am not aware off.
hmm, since we are both online now wanna get on aim, or msn, or irc, gimme ur nick? or in irc case sever too.

Logan6 said:

...blah blah blah...But for the record, I don't think it does, and therefore he was probably refering to the model itself, and not the horrific bob...some more inane ramblings.

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Actually, Stormcaller was on the beta team and reportedly worked hand in hand with Beppo to make sure it handled right. He always said he was happy with how it turned out. He might have even said he was proud of how it turned out. But you're right. You probably know more than a Marine since you know some Marines. Oh, and did those Marines use PSG-1s in the Olympics, by any chance? Maybe they could help you take shots or videos of your video taping?

By the pattern of your posts, I'm starting to think that the real problem is you just suck at INF, minime the accuracy of a shotgun? its better at range then even the sniper rifle in most circumstance if you can shoot worth a damn

I think the problem is in this:
SCopes bob unrealistically much, so how one asks can one play a close range map with only an rc50 and no side arms (it is possible i have done it, and gotten a kill count on tdm to about 50% of that with a normal gun on maps such as kaza and mwh)
So i think there is 2 problems
a. scope bob is unrealistic and over done
b. people dont seem to understand how hard it is to walk around aiming a scope the whole time and still being able to shoot accuratly, maybe this should drain more stamina?