3DBuzz Level Design Contest Top 5 - Screenshots, Download

Yes they picked a really bad and unfitting name. I like Calibrah and WhiteRealm, although Whiterealm does not has good gameplay. Xenon has some good elements but looked a bit too desaturated and didn't really capture me in general. Nimius does not fit the top 5 but it is not that horrible either, more like a top 20 or top 15 level.

Shiota does not belong in the top at all.

I havent played Plutonics level and the others mentioned, but I can imagine theyd be a better fit for the top 5...

The community responded greatly to the contest with so many entries, it is a shame that it ended so randomly.

At least we got lots of maps now tho

Poker said:

Otherwise, the choice of Shiota, a map whose layout is more bamboo garden than deathmatch, makes little apparent sense. I'm fairly shocked to see that one having been picked ahead of Shrift, which for an outdoor map had much better use of space, variety, pickup placement, ambience, and overall quality; the only consideration I can think of is that the 3DB guys did not look favorably on genthly's retroactive chronicling of the design process, which appeared to have left out some of the earlier parts of the map's development.

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Yeah, I opened DM-Shrift in the editor first (because I'm weird like that ) and thought "this is the greatest DM map of all time". However, my opinion quickly changed when I started playing it and discovered that the map runs slower than Cyrsis! Whereas I get 40-45fps on a map like Shangri-La, I hovered around 12 fps on this one, totally unplayable.

Also, while the visuals were very nice, being a remake of Half-Life 2: Lost Coast probably hurt it a bit (what with Valve being a competitor to Epic and all ).

5 - Steam Temple (by Setheran) ... This level really is an example of using movement in your levels to really bring the map alive and add some very dynamic gameplay. I really can't think of any problems with this level. More color would be the only thing I can think of to suggest. I found the flow to be very good and with a decent number of bots the action is nonstop and furious. I also really found the Powerpickup placement very clever and I loved how you never really knew just what powerup to expect. I cooked this for the PS3 as well ... just an awesome level.

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Although I like the look of Steam Temple and some of the qualities appear pretty good, I felt the size of the level and some gameplay aspects, like the pistons which lift you up to Redeemer, hurt the level too much.



Regarding the use of 'old school', I felt it should have meant back to basic DM gameplay - a la Quake, where you would typically have a small to medium-sized map with fast & tight DM strategy going on. No gimmicks, etc.

What I found, with a few levels submitted anyways - perhaps most authors never played Quake (much less heard of it) - so we see Halo/Fear/Half-Life & other newer FPS games being mimicked. (ie: warehouse, factory with wide open areas and/or long corridors and little gameplay)

On gently's DM-Shrift, like White Realm, again a pretty level but the gameplay was scattered and FPS hurt it a lot.


/I feel so dirty to be 'bitching' about a contest I didn't place in.

To be fair to 3DBuzz, their contest rules did state that the author must post a minimum of 10 times, each with a progress update for their map and a picture. The quality of these posts played a big factor in their picks.

One other fact I felt sucked, but it's their contest...maps did not have to be developed during the 30 day contest period, so several entries, including a few in the final top 10 and 5, were already built and playtested to death before the contest even started. That might not have factored in the judging, but it put more pressure on those mappers who had to design from the ground up PLUS post their progress in the 30 days, whereas those who had a completed map merely needed to post progress updates.

Luv_Studd said:

One other fact I felt sucked, but it's their contest...maps did not have to be developed during the 30 day contest period, so several entries, including a few in the final top 10 and 5, were already built and playtested to death before the contest even started. That might not have factored in the judging, but it put more pressure on those mappers who had to design from the ground up PLUS post their progress in the 30 days, whereas those who had a completed map merely needed to post progress updates.

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Awww, it almost seems that you want it to be like the UP contests

Sjosz said:

Awww, it almost seems that you want it to be like the UP contests

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Yeah, that would have been nice.

Gameplay?

It's really quite aggravating to hear that the gameplay sucks. It seems that that's all ppl refer to my map (Shiota) as...

Well I know it doesn't suck, I played the map and I enjoyed it, it's just not your standard UT deathmatch, cramped as hell. To me UT3 DM maps are constricting, in some of the stock maps there are ledge that when you look at them you think, "oh i can jump to that", but no you can't you have to run around the backside to a ramp or jump onto a small post. When I was making the map I wanted the player to be able to feel that if they could go there they could.

I like the gameplay of CTF more than DM, and would have rather have done CTF but the contest was for DM, and I wanted to enter the contest. I guess my lack of knowlegde of what makes a good DM map shows in this level.

I'm sorry I made a map that didn't have the gameplay you expected.

Aldgazar said:

It's really quite aggravating to hear that the gameplay sucks. It seems that that's all ppl refer to my map (Shiota) as...

Well I know it doesn't suck, I played the map and I enjoyed it, it's just not your standard UT deathmatch, cramped as hell. I like the gameplay of CTF more than DM, and would have rather have done CTF but the contest was for DM, and I wanted to enter the contest. I guess my lack of knowlegde of what makes a good DM map shows in this level.

I'm sorry I made a map that didn't have the gameplay you expected.

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Making levels is always a learning experience and internet forums take away a personal touch, making comments come across as rude or insulting. Should you wish to improve your skills and understanding of what makes a 'good' DM level in the DM gametype of UT3, then look at what levels are praised for gameplay and dissect them.
I'm quite sure that no one has something personal against you or your level, but the rules of UT3 and DM combined ask for a certain way of designing to make levels good, just like any other game and any other game mode. Try to find a good forum that has members who can give you fair and constructive critique on your work while you are designing your level and consider that any first level or any level at all in a gametype you are not familiar with doesn't automatically end up being excellent for everyone who plays it.

Aldgazar said:

It's really quite aggravating to hear that the gameplay sucks. It seems that that's all ppl refer to my map (Shiota) as...

Well I know it doesn't suck, I played the map and I enjoyed it, it's just not your standard UT deathmatch, cramped as hell. To me UT3 DM maps are constricting, in some of the stock maps there are ledge that when you look at them you think, "oh i can jump to that", but no you can't you have to run around the backside to a ramp or jump onto a small post. When I was making the map I wanted the player to be able to feel that if they could go there they could.

I like the gameplay of CTF more than DM, and would have rather have done CTF but the contest was for DM, and I wanted to enter the contest. I guess my lack of knowlegde of what makes a good DM map shows in this level.

I'm sorry I made a map that didn't have the gameplay you expected.

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The problem with the results of the contest is that your level is now getting the whining it shouldn't get, just because of the position it was put in. It's not your fault and most of the critics are more aimed to 3Dbuzz for making the wrong decision than you making the level.

I really wish I could of finished my entry for the competiton, I really focused my map on old school gameplay.

Screenshot1
Screenshot2

Hope to have it in beta soon.

_N_ said:

Yeah, I opened DM-Shrift in the editor first (because I'm weird like that ) and thought "this is the greatest DM map of all time". However, my opinion quickly changed when I started playing it and discovered that the map runs slower than Cyrsis! Whereas I get 40-45fps on a map like Shangri-La, I hovered around 12 fps on this one, totally unplayable.

Also, while the visuals were very nice, being a remake of Half-Life 2: Lost Coast probably hurt it a bit (what with Valve being a competitor to Epic and all ).

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odd, k that may have been it as well then ... I haven't experienced any noticeably poor performance in Shrift, nor was I aware that it was a remake of anything. Good to know.

Aldgazar said:

It's really quite aggravating to hear that the gameplay sucks. It seems that that's all ppl refer to my map (Shiota) as...

Well I know it doesn't suck, I played the map and I enjoyed it, it's just not your standard UT deathmatch, cramped as hell. To me UT3 DM maps are constricting, in some of the stock maps there are ledge that when you look at them you think, "oh i can jump to that", but no you can't you have to run around the backside to a ramp or jump onto a small post. When I was making the map I wanted the player to be able to feel that if they could go there they could.

I like the gameplay of CTF more than DM, and would have rather have done CTF but the contest was for DM, and I wanted to enter the contest. I guess my lack of knowlegde of what makes a good DM map shows in this level.

I'm sorry I made a map that didn't have the gameplay you expected.

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Shiota is not at all a bad map, and I wouldn't say that it "sucks" either. It's a lovely map in fact, very organic and spatially interesting. For specific game styles, in fact, I think it could be a real favorite.

When it comes to standard DM play, however, I think the reception it's gotten has more to do with understanding flow, which is not an easy thing. The best maps tend to lead their players to the places they need to go (i.e., weapons, pickups, ramps/jumpspots/lifts ... and opponents), rather than make players go exploring for them. Shiota is instead rather wide open for the most part, which does provide plenty of aesthetic appeal, but it does not seem to direct the flow of traffic as much as a top-quality DM map would.

Well I definitely think I should have been the judge in this contest. I know people would have reacted more positively since I know my choices are more fair and more realistic.

Originally Posted by Aldgazar
It's really quite aggravating to hear that the gameplay sucks. It seems that that's all ppl refer to my map (Shiota) as...

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Sorry man, it wasn't my intention to put anyone's map down or hurt feelings.

I'm just venting frustration over what could have been a better contest for everyone - for example: if the maps & final results were tiered & categoried somewhat, it would have been more sensible to me.

There's gameplay fundamentals that should be stressed more. Yeah, knowing how to use all the editor's features is cool and all, but it won't help you with gameplay.

I agree with Sjosz's advice. Fastest way to learn is to open a map, look around and also find good advice & tutorials on the net.

I finally had the opportunity (time) to download these maps and play through them. I think they are all a blast to play. They all ran smooth on my system with the recommended player count.

Nimius is probably my least favorite gameplay-wise, but that's not because the gameplay is inferior at all. It's a matter of me being terrible at low-grav, fall-to-your-death maps. I often end up falling to my death numerous times. There were some very cool battle spots and ideas for item placement used.

Shiota probably isn't a true DM layout, but I still had a great time playing it and I thought the visuals were very nice.

WhiteRealm's layout was very cool. The only thing that frustrated me was a sticky piece of trim by the rocket launcher. If I hit it straight on it blocked me. The visuals on this were very well done imho.

Calibrah is a great map. The map flowed very nice and the detail/environment was great. My only complaint was the fire- it didn't seem to fit the environment and it frustrated me when it took some extra health from me when I was in the heat of a battle and I backed into it. The changing weather effect tied to the power-up is awesome.

I think everyone did a great job.

-Axe

No offense to the designer, but how did Shiota get to be a finalist? It's a pretty neat looking map, but unless you are playing with a lot of players it is just HUGE! I think Poker summed it up best.

Calibrah and WhiteRealm are my favs. :tup:

Its true, my map is huge . When I was testing it i put in 15 bots, and I played it in team DM, which provided a different feel from regular DM. Guess I should check both next time I make a DM map.

Anyway, I think it's pretty cool that all of the finalists have different gameplay styles. You can't say that you feel that you're playing the same map with a different skin.

Heh, I have to say that Shiota is actually probably my favorite map out of the bunch. From my own mapping experiences, I suspect that rather than try to adapt to a new gameplay style (as fun as it may be) player's inherent reluctance to learn and adapt often prevents them from enjoying maps that "break away" from the norm. Sadly, it seems that while players cry out for "something new" you can only give them new concepts in very small pre-cut bite-sized doses to avoid taking them out of their "comfort zone".

After trying it out, I'm loving the new unique gameplay mechanics Shiota introduces. Large distances mean strategy and planning are now involved (*gasp* blasphemy!) because no longer can you make a beeline for your favorite weapon or powerup anymore (without getting ambushed along the way) and you need to adapt your gameplay style accordingly. Likewise, ambushes and other such clever plans to get the upper hand over your enemies are now valid gameplay styles too.

I commend the author for "thinking outside the box" and hope more people do the same . I'm sure once enough people give it a few tries with an open mind, it will become quite popular.