Epic commitment to UT3

@DP: How long did it take them to reach the fourth patch in both the other UTs? It has taken five months for two. My memory's too poor to remember when things came out.

Comparatively speaking, TF2 and CoD4 have both had tons more updates than UT3 and they came out at the same time. TF2 has been updated probably ten or more times; CoD4's gotten five patches already and the sixth should be here very soon.

Cpt.Toilet.exe said:

...and shoddy mouse control (which is partly due to my mouse having multiple dpi's but im getting over that).

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I don't think it has anything to do with which mouse you use. It's more that for whatever reason they've changed something in the input code that does... something... odd. I could never get UT3 to feel right mouse-wise either. It's one of the few games with which I've actually had such trouble.

Cpt.Toilet.exe said:

I will always support the series even when this version finally dies off, but for now it will be mainly offline. Playing online, especially with the duds is just too cumbersome.

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The poor feel and bad netcode is a big part of why I could never enjoy the game. It's not deep enough for me to play offline so if the online play feels bad, I have a problem. D:

TF2 has 32 updates, hardly a perfect game on release I take it

T2A` said:

Comparatively speaking, TF2 and CoD4 have both had tons more updates than UT3 and they came out at the same time. TF2 has been updated probably ten or more times; CoD4's gotten five patches already and the sixth should be here very soon.

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To be fair, the TF2 developers have a LOT less on their plate than Epic does. Epic has to juggle at least two games, plus the engine, R&D, the SK Lawsuit... Epic has a lot on its plate. Also, TF2 has far less maps and modes than UT3 does, and it also has far lower levels of detail (but that's due to the look chosen for the game) so development is exponentially quicker. It might've taken an experienced mapper a week, perhaps, to put out a good UT99 map. For the 200x generation, perhaps twice that. For UT3? Anything less than a month will look like it.

Either way, different developers have different philosophies. Some developers (like Valve) prefer to make smaller, more numerous fixes. Some (like Epic) prefer larger, all-encompassing fixes. But to accuse Epic of not supporting the game simply because the patches aren't out in comparison to how other developers do them isn't only silly, it's completely false.

We know UT3 will have at least 3 patches, and I'm pretty confident it will have at least 3 or 4 more afterward. Instead of doing the "in" thing and complaining about it, I will wait patiently. Just because you don't like the game (and you've already admitted that) doesn't mean I shouldn't like it either. I don't have CoD4, but I do have TF2, and I haven't played TF2 online yet, mostly because I have no real good way to learn the maps without going online, something I'm not very enthusiastic about. There's one thing that Valve can fix.

Valve is probably working on several games (HL2 Episode 3, HL3, Portal 2, etc.) and their engine(s) as well. Epic is not in any sort of unique position beyond the fact that they released the most unpolished game as an AAA studio in history. (Probably.)

MonsOlympus said:

TF2 has 32 updates, hardly a perfect game on release I take it

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I don't see how that's funny or even relevant to any discussion. In beta form TF2 was more polished than UT3 is currently.

Besides exploits, nothing major was ever changed in TF2, AFAIK. There were little thing here and there like rebalances but nothing huge. Since Steam is like it is, Valve could roll out the changes every day if they wanted to. D:

You mean there are exploits in UT3?

In beta... Well I dont see how TF2 is at all relevant to Epic's commitment to UT3 honestly.

If you beat a dead horse long enough, will it get up and move?

Crotale said:

Emmet, I have seen no postings stating the UI is perfect. But, I'm not alone in the thought that the UI is usable. But I fail to see why the constant Epic-bashing and harping o this issue is going to resolve anything. If Epic has let you down that badly, why not move on and give some other developer your hard-earned cash and time?

I guess I probably shouldn't gripe too much anyone about y'alls complaints, as I'm starting to sound like what I'm bitching about. Oh God, the IRONY!!

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I know how we all sound here. Its just that epic has'nt really got alot of the major UI fixes imo. Like the crosshairs for example, instead of fixing it completely, they give us a wimpy option of different weak uncustomizable crosshairs in the first patch I believe.

The game itself is superb overall but can still use some additional minor bot tweaks.

GGA_Nate said:

If you beat a dead horse long enough, will it get up and move?

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Well, I found its hoof twitching so I came back in to hit it a few more times, but I still see some movement there

GGA_Nate said:

If you beat a dead horse long enough, will it get up and move?

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yep,

its the "Necris Process"

Sir_Brizz said:

I don't feel like replying to all the long posts above. Suffice it to say that I'm not arguing that UT3 has an amazing UI. I simpy don't think it's all that consolized.

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Slowed down and simplified gameplay is a sign of consolization. Whether you agree to it or not.

Noobnugget said:

Slowed down and simplified gameplay is a sign of consolization. Whether you agree to it or not.

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whut!

Noobnugget said:

Slowed down and simplified gameplay is a sign of consolization. Whether you agree to it or not.

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But, the 2kx series was wholly based on a console game: Unreal Championship... Why are they not considered as being consolized, when, considering their origin, they're the most consolized of the series? (Besides the console-exclusive titles.)
UT2003, for all intents and purposes, was a console port, and 2k4 was jsut 2k3 with extra content...
All aspects of expanded mobility stem directly from the console games, thus, removing them invariably makes the game closer to the PC version.

Noobnugget said:

Slowed down and simplified gameplay is a sign of consolization. Whether you agree to it or not.

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Not really.

Ironically, they changed the gameplay of UT3 to be more like the original UT. Are you seriously saying that the original UT is a consolized game?

The fancy complicated gameplay of UT2kx actually came from the fact that it was initally created for consoles.

UT2kx was originally designed from the ground up as Unreal Championship, a title for the Xbox. They added the moves like double jump, wall dodge and dodge jump because they thought those were sutiable to a console game - console games tradtionally have special moves by using secret button combinations. The Matrix was also popular at the time.

I just dont see how speed is a determining factor in that at all, now sure if you are speaking specifically FPS but you didnt say that and you assume your comment is wholey fact.

Sure some consoles game include simplified gameplay mechanics but not all do, just as not all have slower game speeds. I think perhaps the term you would be looking for is arcade vs simulation and even then its not as definitive as you make out.

FuLLBLeeD said:

They're not doing that already?

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WHY THE F*** IS THERE A THIRD PATCH??

Lemme repost some things:

"OH BUT NIGHTMARE IT IS TAKING TOO LONG"

"OH BUT NIGHTMARE, THIS PATCH DOESN'T FIX ALL THE PROBLEMS EPIC MUST HAVE ABANDONED THE GAME"

"I WANT TO MAKE THE GAME BETTER, SO IM GOING TO BITCH FOR 6+ MONTHS AFTER THE GAMES RELEASE."

Hey, your the one who said that the patch wont bring the player count up, so, what do you want? The only way the UI is going to get fixed is through patches. And if "BUT NIGHTMARE EPIC SHOULDNT BOTHER BY NOW" then I'm not the one saying epic is abandoning the game.

Nice full circle.

Ill repost this too.

"If it is too much to you to not spend those 5 minuets in the UI in agony, and that it somehow impairs you from playing the game so Instead of playing you go to the forums and find a thread to ruin then just stop. If you are not playing UT because of the UI then just stop coming here. Please. Let us enjoy ourselves you go enjoy your time the way you want to. Stop wasting our time. Stop wasting YOUR time. If you don't like UT3 just go. Hang out in other sections of the forum. Just not here. please. The door is the back button. And don't slam on your way out."

Edit: You guys should listen to DP. Fixing the gameplay bugs IS more important than the UI.

T2A said:

@DP: How long did it take them to reach the fourth patch in both the other UTs? It has taken five months for two. My memory's too poor to remember when things came out.

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Remember that things take much longer to develop with UE3.

Noobnugget said:

Slowed down and simplified gameplay is a sign of consolization. Whether you agree to it or not.

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FFs...here we go again, NO. The gameplay is much faster paced then 2k4, just because they axed the dodge jump and adrenaline crap doesn't mean its consolized. Don't criticize them on the one thing they did right.

But I do agree that the game is a console port, yes.

MonsOlympus said:

TF2 has 32 updates, hardly a perfect game on release I take it

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The TF2 beta ran flawlessly. And lots of updates it a good thing. If Epic was even half as good as Valve we wouldn't be having this conversation.

T2A` said:

@DP: How long did it take them to reach the fourth patch in both the other UTs? It has taken five months for two. My memory's too poor to remember when things came out.

Comparatively speaking, TF2 and CoD4 have both had tons more updates than UT3 and they came out at the same time. TF2 has been updated probably ten or more times; CoD4's gotten five patches already and the sixth should be here very soon.

I don't think it has anything to do with which mouse you use. It's more that for whatever reason they've changed something in the input code that does... something... odd. I could never get UT3 to feel right mouse-wise either. It's one of the few games with which I've actually had such trouble.

The poor feel and bad netcode is a big part of why I could never enjoy the game. It's not deep enough for me to play offline so if the online play feels bad, I have a problem. D:

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Call of Duty 4 is about to get a map pack, its sixth patch, 3 new weapons, CTF, and maps that win its user created map contest. UT3 has got 2 patches that barely post the game past beta, and three maps that should of been in the game at launch.

And the reason the mouse feels weird is because it was designed for a gamepad.

N1ghtmare said:

WHY THE F*** IS THERE A THIRD PATCH??

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Oh yay, the game isn't in beta anymore. Gee golly shucks Epic, thanks for patching the game to a state it should of been at retail.

I still play UT3 but I'm getting really tired of not being able to find games. The price cut was a good idea, but Epic really needs to get their heads out of their asses if they want to save this franchise.

Can you think of anything else?

Generic "IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED FROM THE BEGINNING." Well sorry Epic screwed the launch BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO FIX THE PROBLEMS.

You know, there was one onslaught map for UT2004 which was released a few months after the game was released (It was a Onslought map that took place on buildings in the sky, like BR-Skyline. I think it was ONS-Icarus, you could get it from the community tab). Did anyone complain? Some things don't make the final cut. The upcoming DM-KBarge has been in development since last summer.

N1ghtmare said:

Can you think of anything else?

Generic "IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED FROM THE BEGINNING." Well sorry Epic screwed the launch BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO FIX THE PROBLEMS.

You know, there was one onslaught map for UT2004 which was released a few months after the game was released (It was a Onslought map that took place on buildings in the sky, like BR-Skyline. I think it was ONS-Icarus, you could get it from the community tab). Did anyone complain? Some things don't make the final cut. The upcoming DM-KBarge has been in development since last summer.

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Thanks for mentioning the exclusive console maps were not going to get.

FuLLBLeeD said:

Thanks for mentioning the exclusive console maps were not going to get.

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And how do you know this? They are going to be on the 360 in the summer, plenty of time for them to put them on the PC. THEY DEVELOPED THOSE MAPS ON THE PC IN THE FIRST PLACE.

This is almost as bad as when they talked about UE4. Everyone jumps to conclusions about the consoles.