(360/PS3) Dark Souls

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Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
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What would y'all think of this game coming to PC? Note that the controls are very much meant for a pad and converting it to a PC game would be rather difficult for kbam users.

[m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUXw86Vn8ko[/m]

[m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6iPwRYiEvY[/m]
 

Capt.Toilet

Good news everyone!
Feb 16, 2004
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What would y'all think of this game coming to PC? Note that the controls are very much meant for a pad and converting it to a PC game would be rather difficult for kbam users.

[m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUXw86Vn8ko[/m]

[m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6iPwRYiEvY[/m]

Sadly can't watch those at work, but I ask what wouldn't work about it? Does some moves require you to do 360 degree movements with the stick. I can see this being a problem but really not much else.
 

Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
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Sadly can't watch those at work, but I ask what wouldn't work about it? Does some moves require you to do 360 degree movements with the stick. I can see this being a problem but really not much else.

Two things to me come to mind.

1) Analog movement. There can be some situations in the game where you want to have more than just 8-way directional movement. It doesn't come up often but it would be noticeable to some people during some points (especially a certain catwalk section).

2) Button mapping. Dark Souls relies heavily on four shoulder buttons, whereas kbam really only lends itself to two primary buttons (LMB and RMB) plus a bunch of secondary functions. It would be tremendously awkward compared to a gamepad to try to alternate between shield, light attack, heavy attack and parry (well maybe not parry) with kbam. I honestly have real trouble seeing mapping a game that uses every gamepad button to full extent on a PC sans gamepad.

Those are my concerns. It's like seeing people bitch about Super Meat Boys kbam controls, except compounded 10 times over.
 

Capt.Toilet

Good news everyone!
Feb 16, 2004
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Two things to me come to mind.

1) Analog movement. There can be some situations in the game where you want to have more than just 8-way directional movement. It doesn't come up often but it would be noticeable to some people during some points (especially a certain catwalk section).

2) Button mapping. Dark Souls relies heavily on four shoulder buttons, whereas kbam really only lends itself to two primary buttons (LMB and RMB) plus a bunch of secondary functions. It would be tremendously awkward compared to a gamepad to try to alternate between shield, light attack, heavy attack and parry (well maybe not parry) with kbam. I honestly have real trouble seeing mapping a game that uses every gamepad button to full extent on a PC sans gamepad.

Those are my concerns. It's like seeing people bitch about Super Meat Boys kbam controls, except compounded 10 times over.

Point 1: Plenty of 3rd person games on the PC have excellent 8 way movement that works just fine with a keyboard. Is the camera controllable in Dark Souls?

Point 2: Doesn't Witcher 2 have like 3 different attack modes? Do you have to hold the buttons down to initiate the attack mode. Why would it be awkward if I assigned say shield to mouse 3, light attack to mouse 4, and heavy attack to right mouse?
 

Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
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I'm actually inclined to agree with you about 8-way movement not being a problem (the camera is controllable), but a lot of people voice that as a concern. There's some tricky almost-platforming segments in Dark Souls, so I could see why they voice that concern.

As for button mapping, Dark Souls (and Demon's Souls) utilizes every button the gamepad provides excluding left-stick-click and every function matters. And whoever would port the game would have to keep in mind that not everyone has mouse 3, 4 or even a mouse wheel sometimes! That being said, here's how I'd map the controls (from 360 to PC) off the top of my head:

Left Analog Stick > WASD (move)
Right Analog Stick > Mouse (camera)
Right Click > Tab (lock-on)
RB > LMB (right weapon normal attack)
RT > RMB (right weapon heavy attack)
LB > Shift (left weapon normal atk/guard)
LT > Ctrl (parry, left weapon heavy)
A > E (interact)
B > Space (roll/backstep/sprint)
X > F (use item)
Y > Q (dual wield right-hand weapon)
Back > G (gestures)
Start > ESC (in-game menu)
D-Pad Right > 1 (swap right weapon)
D-Pad Left > 2 (swap left weapon)
D-Pad Down > 3 (swap item)
D-Pad Up > 4 (swap spell)

Note that the in-game menu for Dark Souls would present some complications. It doesn't pause the game (think MMO) and you can move around and rotate the camera while in the menu. That creates for the need to keep both WASD and mouse to navigate menu :hmm:

If that setup looks clumsy, it's because Dark Souls is a game that really fully realizes gamepad controls, and the conversion is awkward. Hopefully not too awkward--I'd love to see this game ported--but damn, it's going to be a hard one to do right.
 

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
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Meh, there are plenty of action RPGs on the PC and there are these magical things called controllers on PC as well.

I still haven't finished Demon's Souls, though. I played the first world thingy, which was fine, though not thrilling (well, not the whole world, just the first boss and then running away from the dragon), but then I got distracted by other, more interesting games. Maybe I'll get back to it eventually.
 

Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
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Demon's and Dark Souls are about as action-RPG as Legend of Zelda. After playing both games extensively I've come to realize there's nothing like the two games on the market, console or PC.

Also Dragonfliet you're like, 7% of the way through Demon's Souls (although the game is very very very very very much YMMV).
 

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
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Demon's and Dark Souls are about as action-RPG as Legend of Zelda. After playing both games extensively I've come to realize there's nothing like the two games on the market, console or PC.

Also Dragonfliet you're like, 7% of the way through Demon's Souls (although the game is very very very very very much YMMV).

Yes, as a whole, they are very original games. The combat mechanics, however, are not particularly striking, unheard of, nor difficult to emulate. Also, you know, controllers.

Yeah, I know I wasn't that far in. I plan on going back, but I got it for crazy cheap right before DX:HR came out, then there was The Witcher 2, and, you know, the whole freaking glut of fall/winter games. I'll probably play it this summer.
 

Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
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Yeah, I know controllers exist on for the computer, but it seems a lot of people are adamant kbam users; a port of this game would require a good kbam setup.

One thing I disagree with:

The combat mechanics, however, are not particularly striking, unheard of, nor difficult to emulate. Also, you know, controllers.

The only game that really gets lock-and-block down the way this series does is LoZ, and even then not to the extent that Demon's/Dark Souls do. I've looked for games that have tried to emulate this combat, but it hasn't happened. Things feel far too flimsy and light after trying Dark Souls. The only thing that usurps this combat is some of the better combo-heavy hack-and-slash action games like Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden, and even then it's really hard to compare and arguably the Dark Souls can be just as in-depth.

It takes a while for this to click, yes, but once it does, there's nothing out there like Demon's/Dark Souls. I've looked! There's this unexplored space in gaming that the Souls series has taken the first steps in, and I sincerely want more games to emulate these two titles. There's untapped potential here, and if this undiscovered gaming was to be found, it would be glorious.

Anyways, I want this on the PC if only for exposure's sake.
 

Vaskadar

It's time I look back from outer space
Feb 12, 2008
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Tomb of Giants is by far the MOST annoying place to fight. BY FAR. Places I recommend to do first after Anor Londo: Lost Izalith (Kill the bed of Chaos) and retrieve the Sunlight Maggot from the Chaos bugs, then proceed to New Londo Ruins (Accessing the Abyss requires that you have killed Sif the Great Grey Wolf), Duke's Archives should be next, and afterwards... Tomb of Giants should come last.

The Tomb of Giants is, as stated before, terribly frustrating. First off, it's pitch black. Secondly, the enemies there can knock your ass flat in three hits (Use pyromancies there). Another thing... you need a divine weapon to really deal some serious damage to what's-his-fucking-face Nito and his minions (which will respawn if you use anything BUT a divine weapon. Yeah... you're fucked if you don't.) You don't have to place the lordvessel after meeting Frampt, but if you want the 'paragon' ending, you go with Frampt. If you want access to the awesome darkwraith covenant, you seek out Darkstalker Kaathe, who happens to be at the bottom of the Abyss after defeating The Four Kings.

Also: I agree with Trynant. Dragonfliet, you're sorta knocking it before you've beaten it. While you think that it may be easy to emulate... I've NOT found a game with such similar mechanics in combat, that feel so weighty (in a good way), and have such high risk vs. reward.
 
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Finally managed to pry myself away from other games and fire up the PS3 for this one. So far I'm quite enjoying it, though I barely scratched the surface. Killed the Taurus Demon and am knee deep in the Parish.

EDIT: Actually I rang the bell and found myself in a dark area with tree monsters. There are this big crystal guys (ice?) that roam around down there that kick my ass.
 
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Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
2,019
1
38
Quiet Island
trynant.wordpress.com
Finally managed to pry myself away from other games and fire up the PS3 for this one. So far I'm quite enjoying it, though I barely scratched the surface. Killed the Taurus Demon and am knee deep in the Parish.

EDIT: Actually I rang the bell and found myself in a dark area with tree monsters. There are this big crystal guys (ice?) that roam around down there that kick my ass.

You're going the wrong way :D
 

Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
13,428
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I still have this game on my radar, just not enough free time to dare buy this :(
 

Trynant

Manic Brawler
Jan 31, 2002
2,019
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38
Quiet Island
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GAME BEAT TONIGHT WOOHOO!

So yes, Dark Souls is one of my favorite all time games; I like it even more than Demon's Souls (saying a lot).

The final boss, if fought legitimately, is the hardest fight in the game (but in a totally fair manner). Incidentally that's saying a lot. Then again, there are at least two methods to cheese the final boss, albeit it's still a hard fight.