Ukraine
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Amused to finally see an article on the topic about 5 months late.
I don't have a very robust understanding of the concerns in the region; my interests tend to sway toward my home country's favorite killing ground—the middle east. Still, I'm heartened by the courage of the people displayed in Euromaiden and thrilled to see them actually effect an abdication. Curious to see how their political future unfolds. Unfortunately the will of the people will probably not persist, as few revolutionary movements seem to have any follow-through or sticking power beyond the initial wave of victories. My hope is that when the time comes for the US to have its own second revolutionary war, we'll have worked out those details well in advance.
Concerning Crimea, I'd be perfectly glad to see Ukraine roll over and accept the loss. Yes, it's an important port, but not worth armed conflict with Russia and the global fallout from that.
Edit: Leo is insane, Benefica is a racist, and Selerox is just a little slow. Let's accept this unholy triad and move on without too much argument, please.
I don't have a very robust understanding of the concerns in the region; my interests tend to sway toward my home country's favorite killing ground—the middle east. Still, I'm heartened by the courage of the people displayed in Euromaiden and thrilled to see them actually effect an abdication. Curious to see how their political future unfolds. Unfortunately the will of the people will probably not persist, as few revolutionary movements seem to have any follow-through or sticking power beyond the initial wave of victories. My hope is that when the time comes for the US to have its own second revolutionary war, we'll have worked out those details well in advance.
Concerning Crimea, I'd be perfectly glad to see Ukraine roll over and accept the loss. Yes, it's an important port, but not worth armed conflict with Russia and the global fallout from that.
Edit: Leo is insane, Benefica is a racist, and Selerox is just a little slow. Let's accept this unholy triad and move on without too much argument, please.
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http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/06/looting-ukraine-begun/
The Looting Of Ukraine Has Begun
"This supporter of the Ukraine joining the EU has received her reward: a 50% cut in her pension."
According to a report in Kommersant-Ukraine, the finance ministry of Washington’s stooges in Kiev who are pretending to be a government has prepared an economic austerity plan that will cut Ukrainian pensions from $160 to $80 so that Western bankers who lent money to Ukraine can be repaid at the expense of Ukraine’s poor. http://www.kommersant.ua/doc/2424454 It is Greece all over again.
Before anything approaching stability and legitimacy has been obtained for the puppet government put in power by the Washington orchestrated coup against the legitimate, elected Ukraine government, the Western looters are already at work. Naive protesters who believed the propaganda that EU membership offered a better life are due to lose half of their pension by April. But this is only the beginning.
The corrupt Western media describes loans as “aid.” However, the 11 billion euros that the EU is offering Kiev is not aid. It is a loan. Moreover, it comes with many strings, including Kiev’s acceptance of an IMF austerity plan.
Remember now, gullible Ukrainians participated in the protests that were used to overthrow their elected government, because they believed the lies told to them by Washington-financed NGOs that once they joined the EU they would have streets paved with gold. Instead they are getting cuts in their pensions and an IMF austerity plan.
The austerity plan will cut social services, funds for education, layoff government workers, devalue the currency, thus raising the prices of imports which include Russian gas, thus electricity, and open Ukrainian assets to takeover by Western corporations.
Ukraine’s agriculture lands will pass into the hands of American agribusiness.
One part of the Washington/EU plan for Ukraine, or that part of Ukraine that doesn’t defect to Russia, has succeeded. What remains of the country will be thoroughly looted by the West.
The other part hasn’t worked as well. Washington’s Ukrainian stooges lost control of the protests to organized and armed ultra-nationalists. These groups, whose roots go back to those who fought for Hitler during World War 2, engaged in words and deeds that sent southern and eastern Ukraine clamoring to be returned to Russia where they resided prior to the 1950s when the Soviet communist party stuck them into Ukraine.
...
The Looting Of Ukraine Has Begun
"This supporter of the Ukraine joining the EU has received her reward: a 50% cut in her pension."
According to a report in Kommersant-Ukraine, the finance ministry of Washington’s stooges in Kiev who are pretending to be a government has prepared an economic austerity plan that will cut Ukrainian pensions from $160 to $80 so that Western bankers who lent money to Ukraine can be repaid at the expense of Ukraine’s poor. http://www.kommersant.ua/doc/2424454 It is Greece all over again.
Before anything approaching stability and legitimacy has been obtained for the puppet government put in power by the Washington orchestrated coup against the legitimate, elected Ukraine government, the Western looters are already at work. Naive protesters who believed the propaganda that EU membership offered a better life are due to lose half of their pension by April. But this is only the beginning.
The corrupt Western media describes loans as “aid.” However, the 11 billion euros that the EU is offering Kiev is not aid. It is a loan. Moreover, it comes with many strings, including Kiev’s acceptance of an IMF austerity plan.
Remember now, gullible Ukrainians participated in the protests that were used to overthrow their elected government, because they believed the lies told to them by Washington-financed NGOs that once they joined the EU they would have streets paved with gold. Instead they are getting cuts in their pensions and an IMF austerity plan.
The austerity plan will cut social services, funds for education, layoff government workers, devalue the currency, thus raising the prices of imports which include Russian gas, thus electricity, and open Ukrainian assets to takeover by Western corporations.
Ukraine’s agriculture lands will pass into the hands of American agribusiness.
One part of the Washington/EU plan for Ukraine, or that part of Ukraine that doesn’t defect to Russia, has succeeded. What remains of the country will be thoroughly looted by the West.
The other part hasn’t worked as well. Washington’s Ukrainian stooges lost control of the protests to organized and armed ultra-nationalists. These groups, whose roots go back to those who fought for Hitler during World War 2, engaged in words and deeds that sent southern and eastern Ukraine clamoring to be returned to Russia where they resided prior to the 1950s when the Soviet communist party stuck them into Ukraine.
...
Oh christ, Benifica. Do you really believe anything you say? You do realize that the government in power is the SAME GOVERNMENT THAT WAS VOTED IN, right? The Parliament is still the same parliament, only the dictator, who was not only lining his pockets with the country's money AND murdering protesters (seriously, yanukovych was absolutely atrocious and there is long and almost entirely undisputed trail of his corruption), who was, then impeached by parliament for his crimes, is gone. All of the other government officials were already there, democratically elected officials. No one was installed.
Further, the idea that the IMF will benefit in some way from Ukraine collapsing is hilarious. I'm not saying that the IMF is always particularly bright (austerity measures have proven again and again and again to be mostly pretty dumb), but when a country's economy completely fails, the money that was loaned doesn't get paid back, the land in the country doesn't get repossessed (corporations don't have that power, and countries tend to nationalize things in those instances) and so the money is just lost, and the global markets are even less certain, and things are all around WORSE.
Feel free to think that Ukraine should join the EU or get swalled back up into the USSR 2.0, but please stop posting ridiculous nonsense that has no concept of history or economics.
Further, the idea that the IMF will benefit in some way from Ukraine collapsing is hilarious. I'm not saying that the IMF is always particularly bright (austerity measures have proven again and again and again to be mostly pretty dumb), but when a country's economy completely fails, the money that was loaned doesn't get paid back, the land in the country doesn't get repossessed (corporations don't have that power, and countries tend to nationalize things in those instances) and so the money is just lost, and the global markets are even less certain, and things are all around WORSE.
Feel free to think that Ukraine should join the EU or get swalled back up into the USSR 2.0, but please stop posting ridiculous nonsense that has no concept of history or economics.
I love how Russians quickly point out that "the west can't do anything glory to the motherland". Well good for you, because I am not the one who is going to feel the after-effects of this crisis. If anything Putin is the one who seems butthurt that Ukraine didn't want to become buddies.
Yea, the US can't do much. Is this all Russia wants? To swing its arm around and feel like a tough guy? Does Putin give Russia this nationalist rush that the people are willing to ignore how he is robbing their nation? Whatever is left of Ukraine is only going to look more to the EU and not to Russia. Not that this concern's Putin.
Complain all you want of western media, but we didn't have two newscasters resign because they don't feel like spouting the Kremlin's bullshit. Our outlets may be dumb and sensational, their script isn't written by the CIA. I mean, how dare anyone say that a nation would not want to be involved with Russia. There must be American and British agents working the scenes and propping up neo-fascists to take over. Not anywhere like those heavily armed troops marching around Crimea. Those aren't troops. They are unmarked. Clearly that means they are a volunteer self defense force.
Or does controlling Crimea just make Russians feel better about themselves? Oh yeah, control the place where Stalin deported the entire local population. Such great memories.
Mind you I do not support many actions of US foreign policy, and our bias towards most parts of the world is pretty unfounded. But when I look at Crimea, all I see is a political ploy by Russia's government to consolidate its power and ignore the real issues at home.
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When you see. But what do you see? A smudge, created by the media because you don't know anything.
But I know better than any of you. And I have seen it all in action and I remember. I remember how it all went down, and I have a broader view because I lived in multiple countries by now. I believe and doubt everything. And I know how to look behin the lies.
AND I WON'T CRY FOR YESTERDAY
THERE'S AN ORDINARY WORLD SOMEHOW I HAVE TO FIND
AND AS I TRY TO MAKE MY WAY
TO THE ORDINARY WORLD
I WILL LEARN TO SURVIVE...
The hatman told me...
And I wish Putin will invade...your ass
But I know better than any of you. And I have seen it all in action and I remember. I remember how it all went down, and I have a broader view because I lived in multiple countries by now. I believe and doubt everything. And I know how to look behin the lies.
AND I WON'T CRY FOR YESTERDAY
THERE'S AN ORDINARY WORLD SOMEHOW I HAVE TO FIND
AND AS I TRY TO MAKE MY WAY
TO THE ORDINARY WORLD
I WILL LEARN TO SURVIVE...
The hatman told me...
And I wish Putin will invade...your ass
It's sad that there's people here buying into the Russian propganda. Even the Russian people know that it's complete bull. This entire invasion by Putin is founded by lies, and the whole world knows it. They're just too afraid to do anything about it. Those that can't see it lack critical thinking skills.
Hi insane shit is closer to truth than official media crap.
I know how it worked back then in Poland, and that was only prototype of how it works now.
First they ruin industry, everything that could be competitive to western goods. Something like this happens to every single factory that has hope to survive and sell.
Corrupt government sends new CEO to factory, that guy intentionally bankrupts it. for eg by buying 100 shops, investing in them taking loans and making factory unable to keep that up (real case from Poland fish processing industry was killed this way in few regions), when it goes bankrupt friend of CEO (or his political boss) buys out that factory with network of 100 freshly bought and renovated shops in best places all over country. Then new owner sells shops, and leaves bare factory with huge loan. Then government buys new production line (again for next loan) and month later sells that factory to investor from western country below the price of that production line (which is still somewhere in Sweden).
CEO and his political friends are happy because they got cut from bankers and western investor, bankers are happy because they just sold huge loan that is guaranteed by government, western guys are happy they have shiny new production line and killed potential competitor. Who is unhappy: people that worked there, and rest that now pays that loan back.
After they ruin economy they pump up several bubbles to suck country dry. Like house+loans for houses bubble, everybody willingly becomes slave for rest of their lives and will be happy about it. Slavery is done now trough loans, first thing they forced on ukraine, sometimes i think that national debt to banks is only one requirement needed to join EU. In ancient Rome slaves when got old at least had some free shelter and food guaranteed. Now we do not have even that.
Huh?
How do you adress the influence of nationalists in the new government and on the streets? It's naive to say it's the same government. Also the fact that the original deal was better without even the need for IMF intervention? It's pointless to counter-argue if you ignore and go around the most important facts.
btw, the view of people from the country that controls the IMF is surely different from the ones under their... "assistance".
That said, if you don't like me to link to other people's opinion, fine.